Amanda Loses Bill to Hyperthermia

Amanda Loses Bill To Hyperthermia- Patreon
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2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Hi guys. Welcome back to the Surviving Siblings podcast Today I have another incredible surviving sibling with me. I have Amanda with us. Amanda, welcome to the show.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: Hi. Thanks for having me.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah, my pleasure. I'm excited to have you here with us today and to share your story about losing your brother Bill. So take us back in time a little bit.

First, Amanda, about your childhood dynamics, family dynamics. Tell us a little bit about you and Bill. I know there's a little bit of an age gap there, so share with us what it was like growing up together. Yeah.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: Yeah. It's interesting because of the nine year age gab, bill was always what felt like so much older than me. And looking back at childhood, I don't really remember that [00:01:00] much of growing up in tandem. Our stories were very different when I was young. He, graduated high school and entered the Army when I was maybe nine, so about maybe fourth grade.

And he started traveling the world. So my relationship with Bill was very disjointed. I had a normal childhood. We had grown up in Michigan in a very small town with only, two stoplights and he was out seeing the world and we weren't talking every day. Like, some sibling relationships looked like ours looked more like his visits home or a big event.

He would visit like Korea and Egypt and Iraq and he would get these little trinkets or gifts and send things home. And it always felt exciting when Bill came back and we got those kind of big, brotherly moments. As he [00:02:00] came around from the time that I was nine and up, and it wasn't really until maybe I was 15, 16, 17, where we started to have our own relationship one-on-one outside of my family, during.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: So what happened during that time when you were 15, 16? Were there specific things that were going on that kind of brought you guys closer together or you just felt like you could connect with him more? Like what happened at that time for you?

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: Yeah, like one technology came around, right? So I was more on instant messenger. Skype was a thing when they were in an army, so we could connect more that way. But also in that age timeline, my parents were going through a divorce and my family separated very much during that time. So my sister went one way and my parents went one way and the other went the other.

So we all were left to fend for ourselves. And in that timeframe I really found my way myself, trying to find my own way and my own path, [00:03:00] and. By then my brother was around a little bit more. He had settled more in the states after retiring from the army. And I could go to him for advice and start learning about these real world things of, the FAFSA for college and what jobs and what degrees.

And I'm dealing with this family problem and that family problem and what it's like. So our relationship really started to build because we were like-minded and he understood my situation and I could go to him because he was the older brother and ask these questions when I felt like I didn't really have anyone else.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah, I, I totally get that. I have, as you probably know, my brother and I were three years apart, but I have a sister who's a decade younger than me, and it's such a different dynamic. And so I connect a lot with like your brother in this story, right? And, and having that age gap and getting to be like a mentor and your relationship at ebbs and flows and it evolves, and there's different things going on.

[00:04:00] So, when we've chatted before, you've mentioned that you and Bill really connected as you were becoming a young adult. So what was going on at that time? Because I know he moved, and so tell us a little bit about that part, and that's when you guys really came together.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: Yeah, I was still in Michigan attending college and working full-time again, just trying to find my own way and had gotten myself mixed up in the daily dealings of trying to be an adult. I had not understood my lease agreement correctly and essentially found myself without a home in a very short period of time where I was expected to move out in three days and had nowhere to go.

So, the morning I found that out actually was 14 years ago today. And I know

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: How funny that we're sitting here talking about this. Oh my gosh. Okay.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: Yes, absolutely. And with a related grief journey, I had found out that someone very important to me in my life had passed away that day. And then I found out that I had nowhere to live [00:05:00] the same day.

So I was really looking for someone to help because I was 19 and lost and didn't know where to go next. And of course being a 19-year-old girl thought some vague posts on Facebook would help me figure it out. My brother was like, what is going on here? What is actually happening? So, filled him in and he had settled here in Arizona while I was still up in Michigan, and he was like, you really should just come down here.

Like now you have no home holding you back. Like, we can find a school, we can find your job. Like you're just working at the gas station. Come. Come here. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. And he convinced me me and I, my now husband, me and him had been dating for eight months and he said, if you love and trust him, we love and trust him.

Bring him along. And we packed bags. But in two week notices and away we went and we moved into my brother's home with him and his pregnant wife. She was pregnant with twins. [00:06:00] They opened their home to us. Two lost 19 year olds. And we're just like, all right, let's figure it out the rest of your lives from here.

And it. It really felt like not only was he my mentor, but he had always been the type of person that would grant opportunities to those that fought for themselves , and wanted more. And I was always that person in his life. And this was just another opportunity. He knew that not only did I need, but he could give me.

And so when we came, we really hit the ground running and I did look at him as a mentor, but our relationship really became more peer to peer. Now that I was a little older, the age gap meant a little bit less. And we could just be friends instead of, siblings growing up together in this because happenstance, we were in the same house.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah, I relate to that [00:07:00] too. Having, age gaps and siblings too, because it does, it does shift and it does evolve. And I do feel like as my younger sister got into like adult life, it was like, okay. We're more friends and peers now versus, I always felt like second mom and that still comes out.

I'm sure it came out with Bill many times still, but yeah. 'Cause you're protective as the older sibling. So yeah, I definitely connect with him in this story, but I think it's so amazing that your now husband and you just like packed everything. Like what a experience for you guys and you're still there, so you must have loved it.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: We were crazy. I, we were 19 and desperate and crazy. Like I said, we'd only been dating eight months. I had to go to work that day. We found out in the morning and then I had to go to work and I was texting my boyfriend from the walk-in freezer as we do. And I was just like, what are we gonna do? And we had put three pieces of paper up on the wall and Arizona was one of 'em.

And I was like, have you ever been to Arizona? And he was like, no. I'm like, do you [00:08:00] want to? And by I would say like five o'clock that night it had been decided. We were going, we packed everything. We sold everything. And. We got rid of our cars packed boxes. We lived in an RV in my grandpa's yard for two weeks.

'Cause we didn't have anywhere. And then we got on a plane, a one-way ticket. And yeah, we're still here. Like it's been since 2011 and now we have our own established life here.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: That's really. Like, what a cool gift your brother like gave to you guys. So tell us what that was like because you lived with him for, I guess would've been what, two years before he passed away, is that right? The timeline?

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: Actually it was a little different. So, we really did hit the ground running. My brother was happy to invite us into his home, but also had twins on the way. So we really wanted to get out of him and his wife's hair as quickly as possible.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: we moved in August 31st and we [00:09:00] moved out November 5th.

So we were only there a couple months. He, helped us find a car. We had what felt like now $12 in our bank account. And he was like, we're gonna find you a car that will get you where you need to go. They took us to job interviews. They, were like, stay in this area, not that area. All the things we needed to know.

And then gave me, thankfully, and even the dining room table I'm using right now as much furniture as he could out of his house. So we actually had a bed and a table, whatnot, and moved us into our first apartment and away we went. So we took the bus to sell shoes at Macy's and just hustled until we made it on our own.

Really.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah. And so when were the twins born?

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: We moved out November 5th. The babies came, the middle of December, December 18th. So, and I think the interesting thing about, this podcast and my story and, and [00:10:00] a lot of our stories is. Grief is so. Individual and plays a role. And I think when you're going through your grief journey, you see how it all intertwines.

So, like I said, I had lost someone on July 28th that was very important to me, had been part of my life my whole life, and. I was grieving that when I moved in with my brother that next month the day we moved outta my apartment was the day of that funeral. My brother's twins were born December 18th and he lost one of them.

Just 10 days later, he lost his son, Logan, and I was with my brother while Logan passed in the nicu and we were together and he was navigating his grief. I was navigating a whole different grief as well as the grief of my nephew. So it, it is very interesting as I reflect back in that time of my life of like how great everything was and how it was really such a huge start to my now life.

How grief played a role in, in all of that, and how [00:11:00] me and my brother grieved together.

If you've lost a sibling, trust me. I know exactly how you feel. I'm Maya. I'm the host of the Surviving Siblings Podcast, but I'm also the founder of Surviving Siblings Support. I know that going through this experience is extremely difficult. Whether you've lost a brother like me, a sister, or perhaps more than one sibling, trust me, we know exactly how you feel.

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2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Wow, I didn't know that about your story, so we're just peeling back all the layers here. So, yeah, and it's interesting 'cause we're rec, we'll tell people we're, we're actually recording on the 20th of July. So it's funny that like, that's an interesting and I don't know, I don't believe in coincidences.

Just me though. As everyone who listens, knows, I think everything's, I know we don't think everything [00:13:00] happens for a reason, but I do think everything's connected. Right. So that's a whole, that's a whole other episode, Amanda. But but yeah, I think, wow, I didn't know that about your brother. So you guys, so yeah, you were grieving and also, in a lot of ways you're probably grieving your old life too.

So there's just a lot of change and a lot of things happening. And then you have this wonderful, celebration of life coming in and he loses one of his sons and you lose your nephew. Like, that's very intense and a lot of change happening in a six month less time period. That's a lot.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: At the same time a new life, right? Because as much as we lost Logan, we still had my other nephew, Alex, and he was in NICU and required surgeries and required attention. So this time is also full of us going and meeting my brother at the hospital and holding the baby. I think Alex was one pound, 13 ounces when he was born.

So they were tiny, tiny. And we were with them during that journey. So there's so much happiness [00:14:00] and so much loss intertwined with any of these grief journeys, for sure.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah, absolutely. And I've had people on the show before that have, had a child or children were coming in, and they always talk about how it's a wonderful thing, but it's can be such a difficult thing too, because you are holding such intense sadness while also holding physically and emotionally holding this new life and, and joy right in your life.

So while it can be cathartic and a beautiful thing, it's hard, but it, it definitely teaches you on the fast track how to hold both pain and joy at the same time.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: Yes, absolutely. So yeah, we only lived with him physically for a few months, but my brother had never met my husband. They became fast friends, they played Xbox. They'd stay up late and play Xbox together with my brother's Army buddies. We got, adopted into the, the friend group in the family.

Right. His extended family as well as we did have some actual [00:15:00] physical family on my mom's side down here too, that I was reconnecting with at the same time. So, yeah, that was, summer to spring 2011 and Alex came home from NICU and that was a lot of spending. A lot of physical time with my brother.

He was doing home renovations. The baby had just come home. My brother and I do this to my younger sister now too. He would just text me and he'd be like, Hey, you're coming over tonight. And I'm like, no, I have stuff to do. And he was like, no we're making spaghetti. You're coming over. See you at six. And I was like, I can't do it.

And he's like, didn't ask. You're coming up. And we would just go. And now I'm so thankful for those moments that he was a little pushy. And as we grew closer, we ha started having more shared experiences. We actually did a trip home back to Michigan. His wife and son had never been to Michigan, where he spent a lot of his childhood growing up as well as me.

So we all went on the same flight. Actually a week before he died, we went to [00:16:00] Michigan. We spent a week in Michigan. Showing, all of them around. He went to my, my husband and future in-laws homes. Like we, it was just like this whole big extended family very important memories to me.

Now, some of the only pictures I have with my brother are from that week. He was not a big picture taker, as many older brothers aren't. And those are our memories I really cherish. And we landed back in Phoenix on August 11th. I hugged him goodbye at the airport and it was the last time I ever saw him. He died a week later.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: So, yeah. So let's go there, Amanda. Let's talk about that. Yeah. 'cause that's a perfect, perfect segue, but what a beautiful memory and trip you guys all got to have together. Like, wow, I'm jealous. But, that's beautiful. So yeah. So in, so take us to the next week. What happened with Bill? You guys are in, in Phoenix, one of the hottest places in the us right?

I'm gonna give a little [00:17:00] teaser to the story, but tell us, tell us what happened that day in August.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: Yeah. Arizona is not for the faint of heart, that is for sure. And as much as, we mentioned it's, it's a dry heat and it, and it's hot and you get used to it it is absolutely dangerous as well. So I had been in a newer to me job. I had been there a few months and it was a Sunday. I remember because we had started the day late.

And in that job it's very much to me, like an entry level job, right? And there's certain things that come with that now as I'm more established that just seem a little silly. So I was leasing apartments and when I got back to the office, there was a sticky note on the black granite and it said, call Kyle Family Emergency.

And I took that sticky note and I walked to my manager's office and I called my husband and I said, what did the dog do now? And he said, Amanda, I don't know how to tell you this. [00:18:00] Your brother's lost in the desert and no one knows where he is. And there's just that moment of like, what even sentence is that?

That's the most unbelievable. That's not even the sentence you should hear in life, right? And it just the shock of like, okay, this is not about the dog, and where is my brother and what is going on? A million questions. And I said, what? You know what? And he said, I have no idea. Your brother went dirt biking with his friends.

His wife just called me. They haven't seen him in hours and I don't know what's going on. He said, well, should I leave work? And he was like, I don't know. Like, I don't know what we're gonna do. I don't even know where he is. And he's like, I'm gonna go to Bill's house and be with his wife and. I'll call you as soon as I know more.

And I was like, okay, [00:19:00] well there's nothing I can do. I've just started this job. So I was nervous to like ripple the waters and I was like, I'm gonna stay at work and just let me know if I need to leave. And he was like, okay. So I took that sticky note and I remember slow, it's like it all goes in slowmo, right?

You, I walked back to my like main office where my assistant manager was sitting and, and this entry level job, like the reason that is important is because this is one of those jobs you can't just like call it in sick for, you've gotta find coverage, you've gotta do this, you've gotta do that. You can't just like, not show up.

And so anytime you were sick, you had to call around and try to find coverage to come to the community before you could leave. And I held that sticky note and I looked at her and I said, I'm leaving. And I, I picked up my purse and she was like, you can't just leave. And I said. I'm leaving and I just walked out the door.

I didn't say anything else and [00:20:00] I drove to my brother's house, which was maybe like 20 minutes away. And it's so interesting I think when people tell these stories of the day that they lost their siblings because you don't know sometimes what's really going on. And we were like like awkwardly joking, you're like making jokes just to break the tension and trying to find out what's going on. We're like, ah, bill, like you had to go and break your leg and now we gotta go pull you out of the desert. Like, geez Louise, whatever. So we're like, what are we gonna do? What do you like, is someone up there? Like has anyone heard anything?

And his wife Nikki was like, let's go up there. I know where they are. Paul and Josh, his friends he's with are not well. And they need, they haven't even eaten lunch. Let's go. And we, it seems so crazy now, [00:21:00] stopped at Walmart. We, we all piled in their Subaru me, my husband, my sister-in-law, their child, and my mom had come by that time and I had an on and off relationship with my mom.

My brother was like, let it be. She had moved to Arizona slightly before me and she was like, let it be, we're not mom's here. We're not fighting. And he was the one that was like the peacekeeper, right? So we stop at Walmart, we get like sandwiches stuff and we're just taking our a happy little time.

And then we get back in the car, we drive up. Around you have to drive like around the valley for the freeways here, right? Drive all the way around, up to the tippy top of the valley, and we stopped again 'cause we didn't have enough gas. You're not prepared for an emergency. No one's expecting this. We had to stop again by this point.

My mother was driving [00:22:00] me insane.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: Don't like that woman, haven't spoken to her since my brother's funeral. Don't like that woman. And the whole time we're driving, she's like making calls to all of these strangers we've never met that are like Harley Davidson drivers, right? And she's like, oh, my son, he's in trouble.

Keep an eye out for him. And it, there was just this like huge tension in the car because we knew something was on going on, but a few of us were calling family members of like, Hey, something's up with Bill, we're gonna go up there and figure it out. But like, just so you know, like, something's happening, but we call as soon as we know and they're like, okay, keep us in the loop.

But my mom was calling all these people that really weren't connected to our family at all. And it just like raised the anxiety bar so far and added this tension.

So when we finally arrived up to the area, it's a recreational area [00:23:00] that's highly used by outdoors men. Like there people will take their what do you call 'em? Like their side-by-side out there. They're dirt bikes. It's a big public recreational area called Sycamore Creek. Right. So you just. Take a turn off the freeway, there's kinda a landing spot and then you go right into the off-road area and all the trails.

So we pulled off and we were there and we were in great spirits, honestly. We're like, oh, hey, how's it going? Hey, we brought you lunch. And his friends were severely dehydrated. They had been on their dirt bikes all day and they physically could not release their hands, like stretch their fingers all the way out.

They were having really bad body cramps. They hadn't eaten the water. And Gatorades, they were pouring on their heads instead of drinking. Like they were very sickly. And we were met with two Maricopa County police officer like vehicles. So. By then, we've [00:24:00] contacted the family. So everyone's up Some of Bill's friends that we're familiar with the area, some family members, everyone's driving up and they're all kind of meeting us on this side of the road.

And it's 115 degrees out. We're all standing on the blacktop, 115 degrees, ready to go walk into the desert. Like, we're like, okay, let's go find him. Like let, we had no idea. And we were, we're around there and we met the, the sheriff's officers and introduced ourselves, hi, I am Bill, sister Amanda, hi. And whatnot.

And the officer stood and surveyed the group and he said, I'll take mom and wife. And he, he walked them around the other side of the police vehicle. And the scream I heard is a scream I'll live with forever. We all. Didn't need any words in that moment. Again, it's like those moments move in [00:25:00] slow-mo and I remember turning and running around the car and seeing my mom and Bill's wife on the ground holding each other after hearing that scream.

And I remember turning back and seeing my husband and looking at him and just saying, are we doing this? Are we really doing this? And doing everything I could to not hit the ground because with one, one scream it, the finality of the situation came to light with nothing else would ever be needed from there.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah, I, I totally, most of us can relate to this, right? Whether it's a call or all of us. Again, it reminds me of those tiktoks out of like crying and screaming, right? Like we were all relate to it. So he, obviously he takes your mom and Bill's wife, [00:26:00] and then do they come out from around there?

You walked around there, you said, and then what was, what was next? At this point his friends are there super dehydrated, super sick. They've clearly been informed, as you all know. No words, like you said, no words needed to be spoken, Bill's not but alive.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: Yeah.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: how did you find out, like what happened next?

Like, did they start sharing with you, Hey, we found him, he's in the desert. Like, what, he was dehydrated. We like what was, what was next? How did they inform you of like what truly happened?

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: You know what? It's so crazy because I do a lot of therapy around talking about this subject, and I have, for a long time I knew I'd be speaking with you today. I have no idea. I have no idea how I found out, to be honest, now that you say that yeah. From there, there's just a shuffle, right? We were, and, and now [00:27:00] thinking back, I'm, I'm very grateful one of those officers was a grief counselor, so we didn't know it, but they knew it.

So they had officers there to inform us, but they had grief counselors there that would help us, like in those next moments. But really for me, what I remember is. Having called the family because not everyone was there yet. So cars just started pulling up and every time someone got outta the car and they were like, alright, what do we got?

What are we doing? Where is he? Let's go to the desert. And we're like, he's, he's gone. And we had family back in Michigan and we had all these people waiting for phone calls and similar to when we lost my brother's son, me and my husband made those calls. We weren't going to ask Nikki to do that.

We sat in the car with Bill's 20 month old son and we made call after call after call and told my dad [00:28:00] and told. My sisters and told my aunts and we were really the informant to them. And then we got shuffled off. It felt like eternity that we were out there and it probably was a good chunk of time.

They had called an ambulance for bill's friends to ensure that they were at least within safe safe, reasonable measures. Right. And then they had to send us all to the ranger station so they could rule out foul play. Right. So they had located Bill. He had already passed by the time he had located, had been located.

There was no medical work that they had done or could be done by that point. My brother went early to beat the heat. He went out well before the sun rose, probably five 6:00 AM and they didn't call Nikki until, I found out at 11. [00:29:00] So by the time we were there at 1:00 PM he had been out in 115 degree heat for hours and hours and hours.

So not something he, as much as he was prepared to be out there in the heat, he was not prepared to be out for that long. No one is. And and there's a lot of details that come later, but yeah, we got shuffled off, but I don't really know how we found out. Later, we just made a lot of calls and then it felt like we dove right into making arrangements and travel plans and all of that.

And it was maybe not until they did the autopsy that they informed us that it was that it was heat exposure specifically. So instead of hypothermia, it's called hyperthermia is what it would be medically called. So that's, I think really how we found out. And that was before the [00:30:00] funeral. And everything that happened quite quickly, but it wasn't that day.

It wasn't that day.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah, I think, I have never heard that term before, so I think that's like another good learning on this episode, right? We learn something new in every episode, so, we hear about hypothermia all the time, but hyperthermia, which I know this is stuff, so well now with all the advocate work that you do, but a lot of people don't, especially if you're not in a hot climate.

I live in a very, very hot climate too. It was 109 here today, so, I get it, but I'd never heard that before. But that totally makes sense. But I, I love how you're sharing though, about how it's like, there's a lot of like, it's like foggy, like your memory of that day. And some people don't remember everything because you're just in shock from everything.

And why wouldn't you be in shock? Your brother was so young and like a new dad and husband, and that's just really, really wild. So you guys did get the autopsy. It said it, it gave that information, but it wasn't, was it after the funeral that [00:31:00] you found out a lot more? Like how did you find more information out about what exactly happened out there?

Because his friends survived this, but he didn't. So did he get lost out there? What ex what information did you find out Amanda?

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: exactly. Then interrogation begins, right? And I, I think a lot of us can relate to that. And I, I know people that have been on this podcast and listened to a lot of the stories, and you want answers. That's like your gut reaction. What the heck happened? How could this happen? What do you mean?

And my brother's history was important to me. He did go out prepared. He had done two tire tours in Iraq. He lived in Arizona, like he was not a stranger to the heat. And my. Brother in this phase of life was also not a huge risk taker either. Right? So I knew, so no one knew what the heck was going on.

And essentially, in the, the short period of time there, we learned medically what had happened. Right? And, and I [00:32:00] say hyperthermia, most of us would call it heat stroke. I think that's a little bit more generic, right? But he, from his friends, we start putting the puzzle pieces together.

They went out really early in the morning. I just found out his camelback broke that morning. His like his water bladder camelback broke that morning, so they had taken bottle of water like Gatorade, that type of stuff. But they went out and rode anyway and they were on the trails and his one friend said, bill is not himself.

There's a hill out there that when, and they were familiar with the area had been out there before. Bill always had a really hard time getting up that hill. It's so much that when he finally conquered it, they named it Bill Hill. And he was like, I've never seen Bill Drive like that. He's always been at the back of the pack.

And he's like, I crashed my bike, trying to keep up with him. He just took off. He was driving so erratically so [00:33:00] fast. He was going like, I. I couldn't, I had no idea what was going on with him. And he's like, and he was gone. He just said he was gone. So he separated himself from his two friends and they said, we drove every trail out there, everywhere we could think to be, and we just couldn't find him.

And he is like two hours later, we couldn't go anymore. It was just too hot. So he is like, that's when we called his wife to see if anyone had heard from him. And when they called Nikki and no one heard, heard from him, he's like, we have to call the county. We have to call the police. And they, they put a helicopter up and found him.

But after that, when they did the autopsy, I remember so vividly on the side of my brother's fridge, there was a map with a tiny little stick figure that the county sent to them of where his body was located. And it sat there for months and we found. [00:34:00] Maybe a year after that, I traveled to that area. You have to go on a four by four or something out there.

And I had a family member take me out there and we, it's in a creek bed and you come around the creek bed and I remember stopping and saying, this might be one of the prettiest places I've ever seen. And right then my uncle said, this is where they found your brother's bike. He said, that is the only shade for miles.

The creek was dry, but that area right there was full of water. He left his bike in the only safe place, they found the radiator cap off and it empty Gatorade bottles. And he walked up the dry creek bed, he walked a little bit, dropped his helmet. They found his helmet down there, and he walked a third of a mile before they found his body And.

Really what we've learned in the last, 12 years is that dehydration, severe dehydration as you move through [00:35:00] dehydration to heat exhaustion, to heat stroke, not only are you dizzy, not only are you nauseous, but you are disoriented and you lose your cognitive ability to use rational thinking and you don't make the decisions you rationally would make.

And everyone from all the puzzle pieces, he tried to send a text message saved in his drafts, no signal. I'm at the end of the creek bed and no one got it. It never sent. And he walked off and he died in the desert alone. And it's just from dehydration,

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Which is just so, that's so crazy too that you've been able to put like all the pieces of this like story together, like between his friends and, helicopter and where they found him and like the way things were like left. Because you're right, so many of us, it, it doesn't necessarily matter how we've lost our sibling.

[00:36:00] It's like we want answers and when there's missing answers, we're like, but how and why and why would they do this or this or that, right? Like, why or why did this happen? Or, so I totally get it. But I think this is not a loss that we've talked about before, Amanda. So I think it's really important, especially during the summer to be talking about this.

But I I've heard of heat stroke. I've had heat stroke. I, when I was young, I would get heat stroke like so. Easily. I was just always that, I just always was super sensitive to heat and so I passed out. I fainted so many times as a child. It was very, very scary. And I do remember though, obviously not to the extreme of your brother because I'm still here, God willing.

But I didn't know what it was and it was really scary. I would feel like this was when I was a child. I had never drank any alcohol at this point. Right. But it now, I would compare it to being like completely inebriated. That's what it felt like. And then just like, like the world would like close in on me. as I got, as I got a little bit older, more like 10, 11, [00:37:00] I would be able to be like, it's happening. I would like say that. And then, so it was really wild. Yeah, it was really wild. And 

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: and that's what we run into a lot out here. People and, and, and not statistically, but for the common person like yourself or me, they're just out like my brother trying to have fun. But you could be out on the river, you're floating down, you're having a couple drinks and whatnot, and what kind of feels like a hangover or like maybe had one too many drinks is actually dehydration.

And it's hard to tell it apart. And yeah, it can lead to trouble quite quickly. Especially if you're more susceptible. So because the, the. Symptoms are fairly vague. I am a little nauseated, I'm a little dizzy, I'm a little just icky feeling. It starts like that. And and I actually sent a friend two years ago this week in an ambulance.

I personally called 9 1 1. I kept her alive until the ambulance came and they showed up and I was like, she has heat stroke, [00:38:00] please take her. Like, and it was everything. She was completely unconscious. Like, but we didn't know because we just thought, oh, it's just Brie. She has a sensitive stomach, she throws up no matter what.

And it was the first signs that something was very wrong. So, yeah, it's, it's crazy because like yourself, Maya, like, it's something a lot of us have experienced and any level of it. But to think you could lose someone to think that they could. Be gone forever from something like dehydration or heat stroke or whatever level it is.

I think that was really hard to wrap my head around at the very beginning of my grief journey of, yes, this is a sudden loss and people lose people to sun losses all the time. But for me it was just such an unfathomable way that just processing like, what happened? And I'm telling people what happened and they're just staring at me like, never heard of [00:39:00] that.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Do you feel like you, because it is something that people have experienced, but maybe not hearing about losing a loved one to it. Right. I think it's amazing that you are sharing your story and that you're bringing awareness to it, because these are the types of things that we don't necessarily think about.

Look, we talk a lot about homicide and all these other, ways that we lose siblings, addiction. All right? All these other things that happen and they're tragic, but there's all these types of losses that are not publicized as much, right? And so I think that's why we like to tell these stories on the show because then everybody feels represented.

But my question to you about this, I guess I have a couple, but like, do you feel like you were stuck sometimes too in the journey because you were like. But it's just dehydration. Like, if he had just had a couple more bottles of Gatorade or this or that, or if that, did you feel yourself grappling with that a little bit?

Or like, I, I can't believe I lost my brother to dehydration. Like, [00:40:00] what could I have done to prevent this? Or what could he have done? Like, did you get stuck in that a little bit? 'cause I think I would.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: It is very frustrating

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Mm-hmm.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: to lose someone to something so preventable.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Right,

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: And it's very difficult. And, and, I'm pretty far into this grief journey now to not play the what if game. What if his camelback didn't break that day? What if they had left a little earlier? What if they had cut it short?

What if they decided it was too hot and they didn't go? And I think with, as much as I speak about my brother now and I'm more educated on the heat information and the signs of dehydration, it does get frustrating and it does get stuck because it feels like, oh, well if you just drink water, this will never happen to you.

And yeah, it, it is definitely a difficult. Obstacle for me to get past and I would never compare my trauma or my loss to anyone else's [00:41:00] loss. But when I was very fresh in this, I felt like, if he had passed in a, a more common sudden loss way, and I'll use a car example for an example, a car accident as an example, my brain, I felt like I could process that, right?

We've all like accidentally swerved into the other lane or had a close call and you're like, oh my gosh, that could have been better. Hear other people's stories and , you can see how that would happen. But for me, especially in the early days, it was very hard for me to be like, I don't even know how this occurs.

And I would get stuck a lot in that. And I really did get stuck a lot in needing the answers and finding. Sometimes I got the answers and I was like, oh, I didn't need to know that. And that, that's the only thing that I think protected my piece a little bit of was like going too far and having to reign myself back a little bit because trying to make sense of it sometimes almost caused me more pain.

And now [00:42:00] I found a little bit of peace of like, it could have been preventable, but it's also very complicated. All I can do is try to protect others from it and know that I don't know how, but this happened to us and it, I guess it can happen to anyone.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah. So, yeah, I think it's interesting, a couple things you brought up. And so what I wanna ask you is, so you, you talked about like the what if game and, and playing that game. It's a fun one, right? That we're all, all playing at some point in, in the process. But you also, brought up something that comes up in our group a lot, Amanda, and also like at our summit, which you've been to now as well.

And a lot of people talk about how they want answers, but then sometimes when they get the answers, it's a mixed reaction. For me personally, and I talk about this very openly, as [00:43:00] you probably know already, I wanted to know everything and it was all fine for me. And it's not that the details were fine, it's that I just had been fighting for them for so long in my situation that it was hard to get them, but I wanted them.

But that's not everybody's case. And a lot of people are more aligned with you, Amanda, where it's like, you know what, maybe I didn't need to know this part, or I didn't need to know. So what advice would you give? 'cause you've got. Over a decade under your belt now in grief. And so it's really amazing for people like you to come on the show and give this perspective.

What advice would you give to yourself going back in time about getting the answers and about pushing for the answers? Were there some moments where maybe you could look back intuitively and be like, you know what, maybe I didn't, there was a sign that that was a little too much for me. Or like, how, how did you end up balancing that and, and when it was like, okay, I know enough now I'm ready to move forward and do things in honor of my [00:44:00] brother instead of keep looking for the answers.

'cause there was a moment for me, but I feel like I went really deep for o other reasons. Right. But I'm curious about you. 'cause I think that will help people that are like, should I push for this? Should I, should I read the autopsy report? Should I, 'cause everyone's journey is so personal, as you perfectly said in the beginning.

But I'm curious what advice you can give on that, or if you can look back in hindsight as 2020 as we always say, right.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: Yeah, when I look back, I think like, of course Amanda did that, right? I, I have done so much work to really know who I am and know what I need. So for me, getting the answers as a very type A data-driven person felt natural. I need to know what happened. I need to know what time he died. I need to know where he died.

I need to know what he was thinking and what, why he made this action, why he changed this, and what if that happened? And it was consuming me [00:45:00] to the point that I was having nightmares night terrors. And naturally, I don't know if. Me, Amanda, and my personality would have really stopped. And thankfully I had never been to therapy before, but I started almost immediately.

And I went to a grief counselor and I was telling her about these nightmares and I was telling her, he's face up, he's face down. And she was like asking me a lot of questions. What does that symbolize to you do? Like, why do you need to know why? What will it give you if you find the answer?

And I really don't feel like it was me naturally that made that decision. There was the text message when we got his phone released and I found it and I started going through his phone and I saw the draft. It broke me. That really broke me and I wanted to know. It felt like, dang it, there was hope and I just needed there [00:46:00] to be no more hope Bill's not coming back.

So that really sent me over the edge of like, I wish I didn't know that right? As I had a professional kind of saying like, Amanda, what are the answers going to give you? Because if it will bring you peace, we can keep digging. But if you find that answer and you feel like it's not bringing you peace, like it, this is taking a lot from you right now.

I think my advice for others really would be think about yourself. Think about how you act in a non-G grief moment. Are you data driven? Are you answers driven? Do you need this in a normal day? And if the answer is yes, it. You almost can't trust yourself sometimes with such big emotions.

And sometimes it's okay to ask a third party and be like, do you think this is healthy for me? Do you think that this is the right move for me? Do you [00:47:00] think that this answer will help me bring peace? Because for me, I was so truly, I was 23 and I was young, and I was unwell in my grief, and I wasn't ready to make those decisions for myself.

And they would always be there. I could always go back and revisit it later. But for that time, I really need someone to just hold my hand and be like, Amanda, the answers will not bring your brother back. And right now it is doing more harm than good. You need to take a breath and we can come back later if we need to.

And that's really what I needed

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah. It sounds like you had a great therapist, by the way, so good therapy is good. Yeah.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: We started school. My brother really wanted me to go back I was in college. I took a year off when I moved to Arizona so I could become a resident. We started class the morning after he died and I was really not, well my husband actually went to, he was starting the same program, so he [00:48:00] went to his first day of school and the professor said, I'm sorry if I'm not myself.

I lost a student yesterday and my husband had to say, that's my brother-in-law. I went to school the next morning and it was an econ class and the way they start every single econ class is to talk about the value of water in water scarcity. And I walked out of my first 20 minutes of going back to school that my brother wants so bad.

So I really found myself. Working full time at a job that was still new to me. I had taken a bunch of time off work to deal with the arrangements and travel and figure all that out. I lost my brother. I was having nightmares. We were house sitting. 'cause his sister, my sister-in-law had left and we were staying in my brother's house.

I needed a therapist and I needed someone to be with me through all the commotion and she didn't end up being my long-term therapist. But [00:49:00] for that phase, at the very beginning, that was the right decision for me.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that, Amanda, because I think I get asked this question all the time, like, when do I know if I need therapy? And I'm like, if you're asking, you probably need it. But I, I like what she did and I like how she was that sounding board for you. And I really like how she was like. Giving you permission to take a rest. That was something that I heard you say as well because that was something that I think, I wish I had had somebody give me a little more permission on that. And my therapist was telling me that, but I wasn't listening 'cause I'm so stubborn, which I'm sure you can relate to so and so many of us on here can.

So I think it is really valuable to listen to that third party, whether it's a therapist, whether it's a trusted mentor, whoever it is, if you're going to support group, whatever you're doing to help yourself during that time period. It's good. It's really good to have that outside perspective because you're right.

It's okay to take a rest. That's the thing too, like I was in such a hurry to get all the answers to Amanda and [00:50:00] like, it's, it's brutal, but they're gone.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: Yeah.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: And you racing to get all the answers ahead of your mental health and your mental, where you need to be mentally, emotionally, physically, everything.

For that it's not gonna change anything. And hearing that is helpful. It really is.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: And I think you can relate and so many siblings can relate to things change. From that moment, everything changes and things start moving very rapidly in a lot of different ways. Not only was I grieving, but we're also making funeral arrangements, right? We're trying to now be a support system for my sister-in-law and her son.

We're trying to make sure we're filling that support role as much as we can while we figure out our own stuff. I'm navigating work in school. I'm navigating grieving with someone else that knew my brother and, and me and my husband grieved very differently and. We've been together [00:51:00] a very long time.

But I remember saying to him, it's, and this was like the week he died, I said to my husband, I said, it's okay if you don't stick around. Oh my gosh. It's okay if you don't stick around because I'm not the girl you fell in love with. Like I'm not the girl. I was on August 17th. I am this girl on past August 18th.

That's a whole different Amanda. And I don't know where this takes me and I don't know who I'll become, but I know I'm not who I was a few days ago. So wherever this takes us. It's okay. And we really struggled, honestly. There were days I needed to talk about it, that he needed to ignore it and there was days he needed to talk about it that I was having my first good day in months.

And it was [00:52:00] really, really hard to grieve alongside someone that also knew my brother. And as well as family dynamics start to change. Like I said, my brother's funeral's. The last time I spoke to my mom 12 years ago I actually ran into her last month. It's the first time I've seen her since. And there is very, very complicated.

Everything starts to change and nothing stays the same and you don't stay the same. And you really have to know when it is time to say. I shouldn't be in charge of myself. I need assistance. There's a lot going on. And I just felt so unwell that I was like, I need someone else to start making decisions for me because I've made so many decisions that I need to just be able to turn it off for a second and just be sad.

And I [00:53:00] think with all that going on, you do start to try to find your way and you try all the things you don't know what will help. So you just start throwing spaghetti at the wall, hoping something will help it make you feel better. And and I tried a lot of things, a lot of trial and error.

Some tell more than others. But it's not until now, years and years later that I'm like, okay, this is what I needed.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: , I think there's, there's a reason for that. So we'll talk about it in just a second, but I, I just wanna call out what you mentioned about you and your husband, because a lot of people listening, and a lot of people, like in our groups and things like that, they talk about the dynamic between their spouse and them.

They talk about. There's different dynamics, right? Sometimes you lose your sibling and maybe your spouse didn't know 'em that well. Sometimes they know them very well, so they're grieving them as well, like in your situation. And so I think sometimes we think like ideally they would be in your situation where they knew them very well.

But what's interesting in the perspective that you give to this is that [00:54:00] you were both grieving a relationship, right? Although different, right? You were both grieving. So the grass isn't always greener, guys, it's not always greener, but I think you guys are still together and have a family and so you made it through that, right?

So, what's like a quick snippet that you can give people? Like what do you think worked? Finally going through that together as a couple, because this is something that comes up so often. So I'm curious how you would share that all these years later. What helped you guys get through your grief together?

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: We communicate, like we're in therapy on Oprah stage, it's all you can do. Like we have to and we still do it, right? And about a lot of things. And we will say like, I need to talk about this is now a good time or can we talk about it? Or Can you let me know when it's a good time? And we kind of pretense it of like, Hey, I have this kind of heavy thing I need to talk about instead of assuming [00:55:00] that person is ready because I don't know, he's been at work all day.

I don't know what kind of, and maybe he's thought about my brother that day. Maybe he's having a good day. Maybe he needs distance. So just pretense it and saying like, Hey, I need to talk about this. Are you the one to talk to me about it? And sometimes the answer was like, yes, I really miss your brother.

Let's talk. Let's do this, let's do that. And we do that for a variety of subjects. And sometimes it was just like. I just don't have it in me right now. And I'd go call a friend or I'd, find something else if I needed that outlet. But we always checked in and I think that really helped to make the difference of losing the assumption that he's always there for me.

Of course, he's always there for me and he always wants to be there for me, but I had to take his capacity into consideration when it came to his grief journey, alongside my grief journey. We needed different things.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: I think that's great advice and again, it comes up so much, so I wanted to double click on that for a second and make sure we, we highlighted [00:56:00] that so, but yeah, you mentioned some things work, some things. And obviously therapy did, obviously communicating well with your husband has stood the test of time for you guys, which is amazing.

That's great. And I love that. I love how you, you guys kind of preface it by saying, and I think that's just good communica. Bonus, you're getting marital tips in this episode because I think this just really good. Yeah, you're welcome. Yeah, exactly. But before we close out, I wanna make sure that we touch on probably what's helped you the most is your nonprofit that you created in honor of your brother.

So tell us a little bit about that. You've had it for a few years now, right? And tell us the name, tell us a little bit about what you guys do because it's in honor of Bill.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: yeah, absolutely. Shortly after losing Bill, like within those first few months, I immediately was like, we should do something. Like my brother Steph was pre preventable. And we had talked to his family like, do we put water out at Sycamore Creek? Like some type of reserve? Like, do we do this, [00:57:00] do we do that?

I had joined Big Brothers, big Sisters. I had done blood drives, I had done anything I thought that would like. Felt like something Phil might do, right? And nothing felt right. Nothing felt right. So it wasn't until 2019, so I lost my brother in 2013. So a good five, six years had passed. I had been wanting to donate water for a long time and one of my coworkers hosted a water drive at work and they were just asking coworkers to bring in a case of water and they were gonna drop it off at the fire department.

And I was like, this is it. This is something I could do. So I jumped on social media and asked friends and family for a $5 donation. Hey, I'm gonna donate a case of water if you wanna buy one, just send me the money. I'll grab a one for you too. And we'll, I'll drop it off to this water drive. And that left me with five and a half pallets of water in my garage, just under 10,000 bottles.

And it clicked where [00:58:00] I really felt like I'm doing something that matters. am. Honoring my brother's memory. I'm, I, this feels sustainable and I really felt happy doing it. I didn't feel overwhelmed with grief when I was talking about my brother and the water drive. I really felt proud that I could do something to help and that I could talk about Bill and I could use my family's loss and my grief in something that felt productive.

Again, I'm very type A, I'm very datadriven. I'm ready to work. Let's go. And we started bottles for Bill. I started getting media attention and they asked me for. What we're, my group is called, what? My name is, what we're, do what the fundraiser's called and I was quickly putting my hair up 'cause they wanted to [00:59:00] interview me.

I was like, where are we gonna call this thing? And my husband was like, we're calling it bottles for bill. And now at six years later, we're official nonprofit. We've donated over 300,000 bottles of water to the Phoenix Valley and I educate people on the signs of dehydration and heat safety and, and do everything we can to prevent other families from experiencing a preventable sudden loss the way we did.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah. It's something that we get asked so often and so many great people come on the show and they share like, this is what I've done. And like, there's unique ideas like yours. And then there's, we've had a lot of authors on, a lot of people, like, it's, it's your love letter and it's your way to honor your brother, your sibling.

And there's, you can go a traditional path, you can do something more traditional or you can do something like you that's a more unique and more aligned with like how you lost your sibling, right? So, I think something that's really key in this part of your story that you share is that it, you, you saw some light [01:00:00] and you felt some lightness and some joy.

And that's what you wanna feel when you're honoring your sibling. And so I think whatever that is for you, you gotta go for it. And it doesn't have to be anything crazy. You know what I mean? That's what I always tell people. It, it has, but it, this was a moment for you. 'cause you realize this feels good.

This is aligned. This is like, and I'm sure too, Amanda, it was probably like seeing that you were directly impacting people. For me, that was like a moment of joy too. I was like, okay, I'm seeing this change people's lives. Like I can just tell that was probably a moment as well for you.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: Yeah, absolutely. And I did do a lot of, more traditional memorial things that are very personal. I got a tattoo, I wear his fingerprint every day. Like I do a lot of the traditional things that make me feel connected to my brother. And to be honest, with a nonprofit, it's a lot of work. I never was a person that kind of wanted to start it.

But now I'm here and I just dove in and, and it is the right fit for me. But [01:01:00] there's also a lot of people that reach out and just make small donations in their family member's name after losing them to heat exposure because that's what feels right for them. They don't want to, to take on this whole project and this whole undertaking, but supporting other people that are doing that or giving back in any way that feels right for them is what gets them through their grief journey and, and sharing their stories.

And that has been a, the connection has gone a long way for, for me and my grief. And and it does look different than a lot of people's, but I agree with you, Maya, that when you know that something is working, you will feel that and it will be a little bit unwavering.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah, I agree. Well, congratulations, Amanda. That's really exciting. 300,000. That's a lot of bottled water. Woo. That's.[01:02:00] 

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: I think it was I'm trying to think. 2021, when you were saying that moment, it clicked, right? 2021, we, I did all the, a borrowing paperwork, right. It was official nonprofit. We ordered two semis of water and there's a picture of me standing on top of it, and I remember looking in the warehouse at 40 pallets of water and being like, this is it.

That I think is the moment that I was like, I'll do this forever because it means something to me and it means something for Bill. And that, that was a big light bulb moment for me. I needed that tangible like, look at all we've done.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: I so connect with that, and I think a lot of people are gonna connect with this too. Thank you for sharing Bill with us and your nonprofit and everything that you're doing. Thank you for everything that you're doing because we are chatting during the hottest time of the year. So Yes. Tell people where we're gonna put all of your socials [01:03:00] and.

All that good stuff in the comments section or in the the show notes. So if you guys just scroll down. You can connect with Amanda and learn more about her nonprofit and learn more about her and follow her. But Amanda, where's, if someone wants to DM you or email you, where's the fastest way?

We'll just put that in here as well.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: Yeah, you can always reach me through bottles for bill.org or I'm on Instagram and TikTok at bottles for Bill az.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yes. She always answers her dms there. That's perfect. Well, thanks again, Amanda, for being here. We appreciate you sharing your story and Bill's story with us.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--guest824914--amanda: Of course. Thank you.

2025-07-29--t12-31-15am--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah, my pleasure. Thank you guys so much for listening to the Surviving Siblings Podcast.