Chelsey McHale Interviews Maya Roffler On Sibling Loss

Chelsey McHale Interviews Maya Roffler On Sibling Loss- Podcast
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SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: [00:00:00] My name is Chelsea Mikel, and today I'm actually the guest host of the Surviving Siblings Podcast, and I'm interviewing the host of the show, Maya Rother. So Maya, welcome to your show.

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: Thank you for having me on my show, Chelsea. I'm really excited to be here today. It's nice to be on the other side of the interview.

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: Yeah, and this is nice to have this experience on this side. So it's pretty cool. [00:01:00] So it is exciting today 'cause we're putting Maya in the hot seat. We are gonna dive into some questions that have been gathered by our Paton members. So let's just get started. So your whole first season, Maya, you share all about the impact of losing your brother Andreas to a homicide in 2016, and you provide such insight to grief and family dynamic and the impact that has had on your family.

So let's go back to that just a little bit. And for those of you, if you haven't listened to season one, I highly encourage you to do so because that's really where Maya dives fully into her journey of loss and everything of, it's all centered around her loss of her brother Andreas. And what created this podcast, so next year will be 10 years since you lost Andreas, which is a big milestone.

So how are you feeling about this and what have you done for him in the past to honor him on these anniversaries?

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: Yeah. Oh my God. These questions that we're gonna go through today are so good. But this is a good one to start with for [00:02:00] sure. Chel. So when this episode comes out, I'll just be past the nine year mark, right? So of course I'll be looking towards 10 years, which feels very surreal. It feels like it was yesterday that this happened.

And then when I start to it's weird when I think about it because when I look at time is so weird with grief, as we both know. And all of you listening, no. And for me it's more, some years have been more significant than others. Not because every year isn't significant. It's just sometimes you have more going on in your life and a year will, when I was going through my divorce or when I've, gone through IVF struggles and things like that, those years were really hard.

And it wasn't like a big milestone year. It was just reminding me of loss and death and, loneliness. And, but with like the five year and the tenure year, it's like a societal pressure that's going to be a big moment. And I think it's also just such a big milestone too, because I was 30 when my brother was [00:03:00] killed and I'm gonna be 40 on the 10.

These are like, just so happens. I'm also at milestone years as a person. So it feels surreal. It feels big going into year 10. But there's also this side of me that feels quite proud because. I am so proud of the fact that I've been able to honor my brother, and I feel like maybe if I was approaching the 10 year mark and I hadn't done anything in honor of my brother, not that there's anything wrong with that, but just my personality type.

I feel like there's a calmness in me and a peace in me about the fact that I honor my brother every day. And it makes me a little emotional to talk about it because I feel like I'm able I'll get through it, I'll get through it. It's gonna be a hard anniversary, and I do have some anxiety around it, but there's also like a proudness and a peace about it because I know that this show has helped so many siblings, and my brother had such a big heart, and he was such a [00:04:00] public person, and so this is his legacy and.

I'm gonna do something really big for year 10. I'm not gonna talk about that just yet, but year 10, we're gonna do even more to honor Andreas and all of our siblings. So that's how I'm feeling. It's two sides of the coin, I feel. I do feel anxious about it. I'd be lying if I didn't say that.

I feel like, as 15 years and 20 years and things like that come up. Of course. But yeah, and I'll of course go to the creek and bring the sunflowers like I do, and it'll be 10 for that year and bring him his champagne. But we're gonna do something a little extra special and I haven't figured that out yet.

But don't worry, you guys will be along for the journey. So that's where I'm at with it.

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: Yeah. And what a powerful and beautiful answer because as you touched on it, we think of these milestone societies like five years, 10 years, 15 years. But what you had said, like going through a divorce that no matter what year you're in with losing your brother, that almost like grief and trauma echo, it's almost as if.

It does make it a little bit harder for that year. And I know personally with just losing my brother, Clint, [00:05:00] when I got to that 10 year mark, it was, it hit me in a way I wasn't expecting. I think because someone had said, wow, he is been gone a decade, and that word decade just seemed like a lifetime ago.

And like you said, with grief, sometimes it feels like yesterday, sometimes it does feel like a long time. So, completely understand you on that. So what helps you feel close to Andreas then, when you need that connection?

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: So it can be things that are silly and daily things like I love the Office, a lot of office fans listening to this show, but my brother loved the office, so I'll tell just a little story about this. I'll never forget when my brother really got into the office. The office just had like, what, the 20th anniversary or whatever It's been around for a while.

Okay. So I remember one Christmas my brother was like just hardcore into the office and he was really ahead of his time because it became this phenomenon. It's a really popular show, right? So he wanted to do, he wanted everybody to pick their favorite office episode and that's like what we did that [00:06:00] Christmas day.

Like we marathoned that. My brother just loved it. So if it's something small and I wanna feel close to him and I'm like, I'll get in bed with a snack. And my dogs, 'cause my dogs are super special as well. And I'll watch the Office. That always makes me feel super close to him. And I'll watch his, he had so many favorite episodes, but I'll typically watch the Willy Wonga episode because we both, that was both one of our favorites.

So. Something small, but if I, my brother loved champagne, so I'll have a glass of champagne and that makes me feel close to him. Being in nature makes me feel close to my brother because most of his music videos that he did were shot in the woods. So if I really wanna go deep and feel really spiritual, I'll go for a walk with my dogs in the woods.

Like that's like really? And then throw in a glass of champs like. On a deck afterwards. And then that's my brother. I think of my brother as trees. Like that's something else I've thought about getting a little fun. Fact, I've thought about getting a tree tattoo for my brother because I have a sunflower for him, of course.[00:07:00] 

Which getting tattoos, that makes me feel close to him too. But I've thought about that because he was just such a nature person and in his room, like in any room he ever had, there was always these tree pictures, which were both Virgos. So we really like the earth and like nature. So those are things that I do to feel close to him.

Of course, going to the creek, which kind of ties into the previous question and bringing sunflowers every year on his anniversary. And like I go there and talk to him, but as the years have gone on, I've realized I can talk to him at any time. I feel just spiritually connected to him. But my dogs are also something that I just.

I feel close to him on a daily basis because my oldest dog, Scarlet, which I shared with you guys on the show before he was with me when I got her, so he held her first and held her all the way home. We got her like in the middle of nowhere in Georgia. So it was like a four, four hour, maybe five hour ride home.

So that was special and he loved her. And then my other dog, Bonnie, I adopted an honor of him and I had no idea that, and I talk about this on season one, so I'll keep this an abbreviated version, but [00:08:00] I had no idea that my brother had been wanting to adopt a Chihuahua mix. And so she really picked me and she's been, I call her my angel without wings, which are what dogs are and animals are, I feel.

So all of these things help me stay close to my brother. It can be something simple like watching a TV show or eating his favorite meal, things like that. And then, I just honestly. It's probably gonna be redundant, but doing the show makes me feel close to him too. I helps me keep his memory alive.

And helping other people too is just important. It was important to him too.

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: I love that. I love that you have so many ways, that you search to find, be close to him. And it doesn't take all of these like strong effort to do that. Like just putting on their favorite show. It's taking you back to that time feeling like they're there. So it's where you're search, you don't have to search so deeply.

And I think that's some people where they wanna actually feel them right now sitting next to 'em, when really those little things incorporating it, I think is then make you, you feel closer to them throughout the day. [00:09:00] So I was gonna ask, what's a sign that you feel that Andreas sent you? And I wasn't sure what that, if you were gonna answer with Bonnie or if you wanted to answer with someone else, but, or with something else.

But you had brought up Bonnie, so I don't want, I don't know if you have another sign that you wanna share or if Bonnie is the one that sticks out with that.

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: Yeah, I think, well, Bonnie was like the smack in the face, where it was just so fresh because with Bonnie. I had no intention really of adopting a second dog. I think I thought about potentially doing it, but at that point my whole world had been turned upside down and I just love animals so much.

But it's interesting because, I feel like whether you believe in God, universe, nature, whatever you believe in, we all believe in something. I feel like we're given what we need, not necessarily what we want. And I was like, oh, I wanna get like a RT Butler to go with Scarlet. 'cause I love going with wind and like all this stuff.

And then Bonnie was just there that day jumping up at me in a little kimono and like had all these signs and. [00:10:00] She was a female dog. I didn't know if my other female dog would get along with her, like all these things. But come to find out, my brother wanted a chihuahua mix. My brother's girlfriend was Korean and she thought it was crazy.

The dog was wearing a kimono, like she's the one that pointed this stuff out to me. And it was even weirder a couple days later when I took her in for like her first exam with her proper vet. And the day I adopted her was 1 2 9, which is 12 nine. Right. And my brother and I's birthday was nine, is nine, two, one.

So it's backwards. It's just weird. There was just so many weird things. So I think that was the first significant sign and, it was just so meaningful because I needed that more than anything else. At that point. I needed that more than I needed, like food or water or anything. But throughout the years, I definitely, sunflowers are a sign for my brother and I will see them at the weirdest times.

Like when I went to go see my dad for the first time in Africa, a year and a half ago, almost two years ago now. There were fake sunflowers outside of the regional airport where my dad lives. Just [00:11:00] weird things. And like my brother had been there before and like sunflowers aren't like a flower there, right?

So why are these fake sunflowers in these potters? Like, it was so bizarre. I'll never forget looking at that and just, I remember smile. It could have been like a movie. I was like smiling and then I looked up at the sky and I was like, you want me to be here? And there were many people that were sharing stories about my brother that had met.

Him, well he had gone to Africa. So there's things like that have happened. Another really cool sign that has happened many times is when my youngest sister and I are on the phone and we'll be talking about my brother and I see a butterfly and she sees a butterfly and it's very common. And my brother, her and I both had this picture of him when he was young.

It was way before she was born. So I think it's funny that she has this picture 'cause she's the youngest. But there's this picture of my brother, my mom just caught this beautiful picture of him and he's holding this butterfly. If you guys are watching the video, you can see me doing the motion. But he's holding this like monarch butterfly that just landed on him and he must have been like three or four.

It's so wild. But it's [00:12:00] just such a beautiful shot. And that is a sign. My sister literally has a butterfly tattoo and a sunflower for him. So she, I think she thought to get that after we'd be on the phone talking about him together in two different states across the us. So there's cool things.

You just have to be open to it. It happens.

If you've lost a sibling, trust me. I know exactly how you feel. I'm Maya. I'm the host of the Surviving Siblings Podcast, but I'm also the founder of Surviving Siblings Support. I know that going through this experience is extremely difficult. Whether you've lost a brother like me, a sister, or perhaps more than one sibling, trust me, we know exactly how you feel.

So that's why I started our Patreon account. You can click below to find out more about our Patreon. If you join our Patreon group, it'll give you just a little bit of extra support that you need along your journey as a bereaved sibling or as we like to call it, a surviving sibling. [00:13:00] We offer monthly support groups.

We offer a free copy of our grief guide that is actually found on Amazon. It's called The Grief Guide for Surviving Siblings. We also offer direct messaging to our community and to me for extra support, and we have incredible events. We have workshops throughout the year that you'll get access to, and you'll also have access to our summit that happens annually and so much more.

As you'll connect with a community of surviving siblings that understand the journey, the journey of losing a sibling. You can click below to join us today and also check out some additional VIP features that we offer. I hope to see you in the group and until then, keep on surviving my surviving siblings.

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: Wow. That every, all your answers are just giving me like goosebumps, like chills. Like it's just makes me almost feel like Andrea's presence is here, is just, it's [00:14:00] crazy. Without your answers. And there's another question. So, it does sound like you have found so many outlets to have that connection.

So this question might be for someone as they go further along in their grief journey, it sometimes seems like maybe they're getting further from their siblings. So, have you reached a point at all where you feel like you can't remember his voice or his laugh as clearly? And if so, how did you navigate that?

Or how can you ideas for, or kind of advice for others who are trying to navigate through that? And maybe struggling.

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: this comes up a lot. Chel. Like a lot people are so worried to lose the sound of the voice or like what they sounded like when they were laughing. Like, what a good, this is a really good one. So for me, I don't. Think, I think I was scared of this in the beginning for sure. I was like, oh my God, what if I don't remember what my brother sounds like?

Then I remember there's a lot of YouTube videos of my brother, so I can actually tap into those. So I'm in that kind of unique scenario, and I feel like [00:15:00] we are lucky in the sense now that like we're such a digital world, right? So if you are in a recent loss, like it's pretty unlikely that you don't have videos and you don't have documentation.

I feel like it's oftentimes with folks that have lost their siblings so long ago or, I mean there's just not that kind of documentation, right? So I think it's also a generational thing, but it's definitely something that I thought about and had irrational fear around. Because when you're in such a deep grief state, as you and I both know, you're not thinking logically, right?

So I'm like, yeah, what if I don't remember what its face looks like? What if I don't remember? It's like. That evolves over time. From my experience and from so many people like yourself that have been on the show, it evolves. You start to realize like it's there. If you know your relationship with them, it's gonna come to you.

You'll have dreams about them. You'll have, you'll have memories that will come up about them. And you won't forget. It's that fear that comes over with grief, like it, and it's it [00:16:00] feels irrational and then you start to grieve so deeply that you realize this is rational, but then you get to a place where.

You realize, like, now I see my brother's face so clearly just answering this question, I can hear his laugh so clearly. So I think it's also just all the fear and the unknowing that happens. So my advice would be, to release that, keep, keep your videos, keep your, keep 'em all saved, everything that you can save if you have, voicemails and all of that.

But also know if you don't have all of that, trust me they're with you and you're not gonna completely forget. It's not gonna go away because they were a part of you. But I understand that fear. I definitely went through that too.

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: Right. And it's just like, the book with CS Lewis of, I never knew grief felt so much like fear and I think there's just so much of that fear. And it's been 14 years since my brother passed and I do have some videos of him. But I can still hear his voice too so distinctly. And he and I have similar laughs so that's what helps too.

But yeah, so definitely that, that question that came through was just such a great question 'cause I know that comes up so much [00:17:00] so. What did you tell your yourself when you started to feel guilty maybe for laughing or moving forward, or just enjoying life after he passed,

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: Yeah, this is another one that comes up just so much. And for me, I don't really think I allow or gave my, I don't wanna say allowed, gave myself room to feel guilt for the first few years. And I think it's be, it's like my part of the journey. So I wanna answer it for myself, and then I wanna answer it like more general, right?

Because I think this is a big one. But for myself, I didn't really experience guilt because I didn't have any room to experience any emotion other than anger because I was so focused on the person that killed my brother. So focused on trying to chase this. I was so angry. I was in such a fog. That I don't know that I could feel guilty because I wasn't happy.

I was so angry and I was so, I was just trying to get through life and I think that's such a really toxic [00:18:00] way to go through this. But I didn't know anything else. I was so consumed by this and it's why I am so glad I've been able to share my story and why I feel like here we are ending season eight and you guys wanna know all this stuff and I wanna be able to share this with you.

So you don't spend the first five years in this like anger, like I did. And I think that's so important, right? But I think I first started to feel guilty when like I met my ex-husband and I started to, that was probably when I started to feel some happiness because I fell in love and. There were some things about my ex-husband that reminded me of my brother and he really would've liked him a lot.

And just they were, they're both very creative and just jokesters. Like my brother always made me laugh, like I've never laughed as hard as I have with him. And then my ex-husband came around and he made me laugh all the time. And he still does. We're friends, so he still does. But I felt guilty because then I started to realize, oh my God, like I'm probably, we knew pretty fast that we were [00:19:00] probably gonna get married.

And so I was like, I'm gonna marry this guy. My brother's not gonna be there. And so that was when guilt sunk in for me. I started to feel like, oh my God, I'm gonna have a family. And like I'm, I started my own business and so I'm like doing all these things. 'cause my brother was extremely entrepreneurial as well, so I started to feel guilty that I was doing things that he was never going to get to do because I loved my brother's girlfriend.

She's such a beautiful person. He never got to. Get old enough to marry her, right? They were like babies, she was 20, 21, he was 27, and he never got to see her like, go through medical school and like do, so I started thinking about that. That's when that kind of stuff sank in for me. Then something switched for me about year five, which is when I put the show out because I started to realize, I can feel this way or I can lean into that feeling, or I can just go even harder because he can't do it.

Like, he never got to be the musician that he, he was a great musician and he had a great following, but he never got to like really hit it because if he had been around during the TikTok days, Chels, [00:20:00] let me tell you, he would've like exploded. So I started to feel this like responsibility to do that.

Like in honor of him in my own way, right? So telling his story, putting him out there. And so, and here we are now, which I think he's definitely behind all of this. 'cause this is not traditionally something I would've gone down the path of doing, but here we are. So I felt like this responsibility to do that and I'm so glad that's how I decided to channel the guilt.

So it was more like a, it was like a mindset flip for me. It was like, okay, I can either feel guilty 'cause I can do these things, or I can just really lean in and go 10 times harder because I'm doing it for us both. And so that's what helped me. But to look on the other side. I know there's a lot of folks that feel guilty right away, right?

Or might feel the guilt right away. And there's all these, and basically what we're dancing around is survivor's guilt, right? So, some people feel guilty because maybe they, you guys were both in the same car and you survived and your brother didn't, or your sister didn't, right? Like, that can be a thing.

I've had people on the show where, [00:21:00] you know, both of you have had cancer, maybe breast cancer, and one has walked and been fine, and your sister passes away. So there's all that can be survivor's guilt, right? Because you feel guilty. You why not me? Why them take me? There's all that kind of thing going on.

And then there's, like my situation where you feel guilty because your life keeps moving forward and progressing and you're gonna experience things that they, they won't. Then there's also this, there's so many different aspects of guilt and survivor's, guilt and grief, and then there's that aspect of, if you lost a sibling to suicide or if you lost them to addiction or overdose or fentanyl or just all these things, what if I, and even homicide with, you know me or even an accident, like what you went through.

What if I, you feel guilty 'cause you could have done something. But the common thing for all of this, and I hope my story helps with that, and I hope your story and everybody else who's been on the show helps with this. The reality is we can't go back and change it. We can't. And so whenever you decide that you're ready to turn that, that corner in your story, whether that's a couple months in, whether that's a couple years in, you can't force yourself.

You have to [00:22:00] get there in your own healing journey. And I think you have to feel all of those things. But I think the advice I would give you is find a place where you can forgive yourself and release that. Because my turning point was. Creating this show and creating things and doing things to honor my brother and to help people, because that's really my calling in life.

I do feel that way. And so I think whatever that is for you, it will help you release that guilt because we cannot go back and change those things, but we can do things to honor our siblings. And like we talked about earlier in the episode, it doesn't have to be anything really magnanimous. It can be if you want it to be, but it can also be small things that are just really healing and helpful.

So this is a big topic, so I wanted to look at it from both sides. 

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: And what a great answer. And you touched on many things. Survivor's guilt is such a big one. And as you said, with getting married, that is a big one too. I've, with other grieving siblings when they're, they're like, oh my, my sibling didn't get to meet my husband or my wife, or didn't get the chance of being an aunt or an uncle.

[00:23:00] So, those are big ones that happen a lot that come up over the years. And then you did touch on a little bit early on about with anger. So with losing your brother to homicide and like I said, the beginning, really encourage people if you have not listened to season one, this is really when Mya goes in depth.

But the couple questions did come through. So what's something people often misunderstand about losing someone to violence?

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: Yeah, this, this is a big question. There's a lot of things that people misunderstand about it. I think. Look, like I mentioned, anger is so. It took over for me. I can pretty much tell right away now that I've talked to So thousands of you guys, right? Interviewed over 70 of you on the show and then on TikTok, talked to thousands of you.

I think I just, I guess I didn't, for myself, I didn't realize go from that angle and then talk about everyone else. I didn't realize how angry I would be and I didn't realize how angry I would be probably forever. And I didn't realize that. [00:24:00] Yeah. Yeah. I have to double click on that for a second.

'cause I didn't realize that I'd be so angry in a sense that it would just take over myself. And I didn't really have the tools to. I don't think anybody does unless you have somebody in your life that's been through this. But it, it took me over, it took me over mentally, emotionally, physically.

And all I wanted to do was like numb it. Which is not the answer 'cause that makes it worse. And what I mean by that is like, I wanted to drink 'cause I didn't wanna feel all of that or I wanted to self isolate and I wanted to do, it was just really tough. 'cause I felt this anger in me that I had never experienced.

And I think I wish I had someone to tell me that is normal. And I think it's something that people don't normally realize if you're losing someone in a violent way, because. There is someone else to blame. I think that's what's a little bit different about this type of loss. And I'm very clear on anything that I do with sibling loss.

I don't believe in comparing losses. I think they're all traumatic. I just think there's different components that play in when you lose a sibling different ways. It's not [00:25:00] that one is harder than the other, it's there's harder things about different things. Right. And the hard thing about losing someone in a violent way, and here of course we talk about sibling loss, is the fact that there is someone to point a finger at.

Someone did pull the trigger, someone did hit them, beat them, throw them, whatever. Right. It's oftentimes I connect a lot with people who have lost a sibling to fentanyl or things like that too, because there is someone you can say, gave them this or did this, and that's very challenging. I've even had some people in group, which Chelsea, you've probably been in some of these groups, and people say to me, they're like, Maya, I'm glad by sibling.

Died this way because I don't know if I could handle having someone to blame. And I just, I And that's your perspective, right? And that's your, I only really know this way. But that was a really difficult thing. And I think the next thing I would say, the second part answer of this question is, that's the hard part about losing someone to violence, right?

Like, you have to [00:26:00] forgive and you don't forgive because what that person did is, okay, you forgive because you can't be angry for the rest of your life because then that person that did this violent thing to your brother or sister, or loved one, if you're just listening 'cause you like the show you're also losing yourself then too.

Right? They're not just taking the life of your sibling, they're taking the life of you too. And

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: Right. Your identity shifts with losing a sibling in that manner and how they, they took them 

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: yeah. It, it does. Yeah, it does. So, yeah, I think it's hard. Yeah. I mean it's, you're forever changed to your point. It does. And I just think it's just hard losing someone to like, 'cause you're always gonna have someone to blame for it. But the reality is, I don't know. And I think the other part too that I would add to this is losing someone in a violent way if they are convicted, which is a whole other podcast, but if they are convicted, [00:27:00] sure you have somebody off the street and they can't do it to someone else.

And I think that's how it should be. Right? And that's why we call it a justice system, even though I don't think it's a justice system. But at the end of the day, what can be quite, IM I guess anti-climactic for people is it doesn't bring your sibling back, right? So are some tough things about losing a sibling to violence and a violent crime.

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: Yeah, and anger is just a big one in general. And like you said, you just wish someone early on told you it was okay to feel that way. And I think with grief too, there's just so much, it's so important to just validate someone's feelings. You don't have to try and fix it. But yeah, early on someone said, Hey, you should be angry.

This, you have every right to be angry. This is normal. Yes. You're, does that mean you're gonna be angry the rest of your life? No, but you're allowed to be angry. This is a, this is an intense loss that you experience. How could you not be angry? And like you had said with forgiveness, right?

Forgiving is not letting the person off the hook for what they did. It's just where it comes to a point. You're not letting it [00:28:00] destroy you anymore. You're not letting it just live deep, inside you with kind of hatred or anger. So you're right, forgiveness is for yourself, not for that other person.

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: And I wish someone had told me that pretty early on too, right? Because I'm like, there's no way I'm not hear from people all the time. And you guys might be listening to this thinking that too. There's no way I'm ever gonna forgive that person. But I learned the complexity of forgiveness and that forgiveness is not black and white.

It's not like I'm not forgiving this person like I would forgive, my best friend for do doing something really messed up to me. Right? And like actually having remorse, like that's a totally different type of forgiveness. So it, and that's the thing about grief it and pain and loss, it teaches you that life is not black and white.

It's gray and there's so many complexities to these emotions.

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: Yeah, definitely. But yeah, your answers are just so in depth, and I think there's so many listeners that have come, Patreon members that have come on with these questions, but are listeners, your listeners. [00:29:00] In general? Well, I'm guest host, so I don't know if how I word that, but are just gonna resonate with so much that you are saying right now.

'cause you're talking about your own personal experiences, but then you're also sharing about what you've learned over the years talking with other siblings. So you're a very busy person, right? Maya?

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: A little bit.

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: just a little bit. You're a true entrepreneurial, you have multiple businesses, you have this podcast.

You created just this wonderful community for surviving siblings as well as our Patreon members, which I'm proud to be a member of. Now have the Surviving Sibling Summit, which we'll get into in a little bit. But how did you, 'cause you travel a lot too, so how did you handle days where you mentally felt like you couldn't make it through the day, but you had life commitments, you had work, you had things that could not be rescheduled, so you had to show up regardless of mentally how you were doing.

So how did you handle that?

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: Yeah, I think this is something that might surprise people. Maybe not. I still have [00:30:00] them. I still have those days. Especially to go all the way back to the first question about the 10 year mark. I think as we, these significant dates come up, it feels a little bit harder and like, and then it doesn't, and then it ebbs and flows.

So for me, look in the first year I was a hot mess. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you like I had it all figured out. I was a total mess. There were definitely times, I left my job. I, where I went wrong with that. As you mentioned, Chelsea, I go in depth and I tell all of this in season one, and this is really about your question, so I wanna be as concise as possible, but if you really wanna hear me sharing in depth like what I did wrong and what I did right?

It's in season one, but in 2017, so my brother was killed. For those of you who are, have not listened to the first season, he was killed in November of 2016. So 2017 was really the first year of grief for me. Like that was the year and. I left and I ended up going back to work really quickly and I think I thought that was gonna work for me going into something new 'cause it would just [00:31:00] consume me.

And that didn't work. It did not work. And I went, I signed up to travel even more than I had in the past. And I actually like was living in LA and going, coming back and forth to Atlanta. I was like, oh, this will be good. I'll be really busy. I don't know. Works for some people maybe. I think for me I was too distracted and too traumatized to really dial into what I was doing.

But everything works out right. So, but at the time I was not able to 2017 and very. It was very difficult still in 2018 to be able to push through. And my career suffered at the time for it. I think I would've, if I could, again, if I could go back and give myself a little more advice, I probably would just send chill out, right?

Like, I started a consulting business and I started my first podcast. My opinion, and I don't know that was really the best things I could have done for myself, but life goes on. I was not good. I used to reschedule recordings all the time. I couldn't, like, it's so different. I run such a tight ship with all this stuff now.

[00:32:00] It was hard and I dealt with it a little bit differently than maybe you are dealing with it, but just know that this is normal for me. I wasn't like, I wasn't breaking down crying all the time. I was just getting so angry and so overwhelmed. I would just feel like. I would be in like paralysis. Some people deal with it like that.

Some of you guys are probably listening. You're like, yes, I connect with that. Some of you are maybe the kind of person that just starts crying all the time and needs to like lock yourself in your room. It's essentially the same thing. Our bodies are just reacting differently, right? Because I'm not traditionally a big crier because I didn't really have space to do that when I was young.

So what I found in this grief journey is that we emote more in the way that we were able to, especially as a young child, which is a whole other show, right? Talking about how we grieve and why we grieve that way. I really wasn't able to express myself the way that I needed to. But anyway, so I wasn't able to get through those times.

But as things evolved, I did learn better coping skills with it by going back to therapy and realizing that it was okay to call out [00:33:00] sick if I was really going through something, like if I was talking to the detective and like I got a lot of information. Probably was best that I didn't go to work that day and, tried to say, I was like ex exploring some remote options at that time and I was like, Hey, I'm gonna work from home today and, some work is gonna be okay with that and some is not.

But I was proud of myself for at the time starting to prioritize myself and my health with that a little bit more. Because I was also getting messages from people that, knew these people that did this to my brother. And it would, those things were very triggering. I still get messages talking on such a public platform now, and it can be a moment of jarring, but it's totally different nine years into this.

Right? So, but at the time I needed space for that and I think that's really the best piece of advice I could give people and also share from my side what I did wrong was not giving space for that and just shoving things down. And I think giving space for it, but also saying to yourself [00:34:00] like.

This doesn't really matter or this does matter. And giving yourself room to feel it, because the more you push things down, it's just gonna explode at a certain later date, which I discovered. So I think everybody's gonna have their own coping mechanisms on how to get through the day. But I do think compartmentalizing people think that's a negative thing.

Compartmentalizing in a healthy way is a good thing. It's saying, you know what, I gotta take the kids to school this morning. I'm gonna drive 'em to school, and then after I take 'em to school, I'm gonna go drive through Starbucks and get myself a, a drink. And maybe I'm gonna turn on my brother's favorite song and give myself a good cry that like, you have to give yourself.

It's like a, I pulling the pressure out of something, but we also still have to pay the bills and take care of our kids and like, our spouses and life and work and all that stuff. So I think it's a balancing act and I think it's. It's something you have to work through for life and you also have to think about things that work for [00:35:00] you.

And for me, what works is just giving myself isolation, time and space for those things. And also having really good people that I can talk to like you, Chelsea, and I think that's what's really great about this community is people will meet other people where they can connect. And I think that's been the most important thing too, which I know we'll talk more about that.

But that was super helpful too on those days because when you're, when you have somebody you can call and talk to, you get validated pretty instantly, and that's good. That's very healthy.

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: Yeah. I always say with grief, there's comfort among strangers who get it. And like you said, you can't schedule grief. Like it just comes up when it comes up, but you can so many people just. Grieving, but they throw themselves into work and then all of a sudden it comes up. So what you had said with going to Starbucks and then just taking that moment in your car, I've done that before where I've, just, early on in my grief, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm go and then I'm crying randomly.

So I'd sit in my car and I'm like, okay, Clint, for the next five minutes, it's only you and me in this world. And just allowed myself. [00:36:00] And I think people, need to understand what that means to allow yourself to feel that way, that you're actively doing something that is going to be helpful for you and what helps with those kind of grief kind of outbursts or, when it comes up like that, not that doing it this way, it's not going to come up.

But yeah, so having those different, coping skills and how you handle that. So others, they wanna know, how do I hold onto my bond with my sibling without feeling stuck in grief? But I know early on you had said. That coming up on the 10 year mark, of course it's gonna be challenging, but you've also accomplished so much in that timeframe.

So, others may feel, hey, I haven't really done anything to honor 'em that big. Or they're thinking about doing a scholarship maybe, and they haven't done it yet, and it's been five years or 10 years. Maybe they're feeling guilty or maybe they're feeling that they are just stuck. So yeah, so essentially that, with that question.

So how do I hold onto my bond with my sibling without feeling [00:37:00] stuck in the grief, with still moving forward?

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: Yeah, and I think this is a good question too, because so many of. You guys write to me all the time, whether it's TikTok, whether it's email, just listening to the show, look, we've all heard you need to get over it. You need to move on. Write all of that stuff. And that's what puts this question in our minds, this exact question that you just read to me, Charles, the how do I honor my sibling, or how do I keep my sibling a part of my life?

Or, fill in the blank without feeling stuck. Well, the reality is that, there's always gonna, I think there's always a part of me that's gonna be in that time where, like my brother was around for 27 years, right? So I think there's that, but I personally don't feel stuck. I think this whole idea of being stuck is so much from this outside world that doesn't understand grief and doesn't understand the grief of losing a sibling, right?

They think if we still talk about our sibling, if we [00:38:00] still honor them, that we're stuck. So I think. This question is so important because it's important that we define it a little bit and being stuck. This is just my opinion and my take on it is if you were telling me that, it's been 10 years since you've lost your sibling, I'm just making this timeline up.

Everybody's timeline's gonna be different. If you told me it's been 10 years and like you haven't been able to get out of bed and you are really struggling, like you are literally not able to do basic things in life because of whether it's sibling loss or any loss, right? We just talk about sibling loss here.

Yeah, you're probably stuck, but the reason you're stuck is because it's not what society tells you. You need to get over it, you need to move on. No, it's because you probably didn't find your people. You probably didn't find, probably didn't have some help with therapy or whatever. You're needing to help you on your grief journey.

So that's what stuck really means. And stuck just means that. You need some support in your grief journey. [00:39:00] That's all that really means because the reality is we're all going to continue to honor our brothers and sisters and that's healthy. So stock is more like analyzing. Are we unhealthy in what we're doing in our grief, right?

Like, are we not living our life and honoring the grief? Right? If we're not living, then that's what it is. So for me, that's what that means. And that helps define like, how do we honor our siblings without being stuck? We honor them by doing things that we think that they would be happy about, right?

Like I would think that my brother would be happy that I've gone on to do these things and create businesses. And like of course he would be happy that I have a whole show talking about him. That's just the kind of person he was. Okay. He would be really pumped about this and I'm sure he knows. But in on the other side of this, I also like to mention that we are.

Still here, living life, right? Like we are still living here. So whatever you believe [00:40:00] in spiritually, whether you're atheist, agnostic, or whether you're really religious or just spiritual or wherever you are, we all know that we're physically here. They're not. Whether you believe they're in heaven or whether you believe they're now a tree.

Whatever you believe, right? We are physically here, so we're having a human experience. They are no longer regardless of what you believe in. So I think it's really important that you're not just doing things to honor your sibling because that's what they would've wanted. What makes you feel good?

It's okay to be selfish about this. Like what made you feel close? To your sibling, right? Like what made you feel close to them? And so that's oftentimes you guys will hear me ask you like, if you get on a live with me or if you're on social with me, or if you share with me in an email or wherever you reach out to me and you say, Hey, it's my sister's 10 year anniversary.

I say, that's wonderful. Do you do anything on the anniversary? What are you doing for yourself? Because it's wonderful that, I have [00:41:00] sunflowers in honor of my brother, but it helps me stay connected to him, right? Because at the end of the day, I need to help myself on this journey. So I think that's what helps you not feel so stuck in that, is you're also filling something for you.

It's wonderful to do something for them, but this is for you. You are the one here having the human experience. So if that means you go to their favorite restaurant on their anniversary or their birthday and you order a meal that both of you love, that's great. Or if fill in the blank. But there's people that tell me too, like, I don't wanna go.

I don't wanna go to the graveside. That doesn't feel good to me. Don't do it. Don't do it. That's because this is for you. Your brother or your sister is not gonna be mad at you that you didn't go to the graveside. They're not there. Right. They're with you. That's what I

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: a great point.

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: Yeah.

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: I, and I think, you answered that with, there's the society pressure. If you talk about them so much or post about them so much, and then people may think you're stuck, which honestly is, can be hurtful [00:42:00] with that. And it's like there, as long as I'm continuing through life, I can, talk about 'em as much as I talk about my brother, sister as much as I want, or post as much as I want.

I think society has that pressure on us. But then also, like what you said, if you're 10 years into your grief and you still are just, you haven't sought out those resources in any way, whether, through therapy, through this kind of community that you've created some kind of outlet to have those resources to really work through the grief because grief is still gonna come.

You have to go through it. You can't jump over it under it. You have to go through it and it's painful and it's hard. But you just touched on a lot of great points, so. You interviewed, you've interviewed so many siblings, right? Not just a few. You said what? Over 70. So what have, so, and this might be a hard question 'cause interviewing over 70 siblings with, so, like, so many different types of losses.

So, if there's multiple answers with this, but one of our Patreon members wanted [00:43:00] to know what's one thing a guest has said that completely shifted your perspective on sibling loss?

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: this is such a good question. Oh my God, this is such a good question. I would say, okay, so all of you are amazing who have been on the show, so I just wanna say that, but I would just have to answer this off the cuff, like, what sticks out for me? I would say. Something that shifted my perspective in the first season.

I interviewed people, so that'd be season two if you guys are interested, like if you're just finding us and wanting to go through. So season two, I had incredible woman on Margaret and I'm trying to get her to speak at the summit, so fingers crossed. But she's retired now. She's the founder of Good Grief.

She said something to me because I had never experienced, I've got a few examples, but I wanna start with her. I think better chronologically. So she, again, founder of good grief, she lost her brother to a motorcycle accident. And the reason her stuck out to me is because she's the first person that I interviewed or just had an interaction with that had a [00:44:00] positive family dynamic experience after loss.

And she, I was blown away by this. So if you're like interested in hearing about a positive family dynamic afterwards, that's a good episode to listen to. 'cause oftentimes people are like, what's a good episode to listen to, like a bad family dynamic. I'm like, it's actually easier for me to say the other way around because most of us do have a bad family dynamic afterwards in some way or another.

But she explained to me this idea of the grief bubble. And this was so foreign to me because I just felt to more isolated and alone than I ever had in my entire life. And I was like, what the heck is a grief bubble? I'm like, I, for me, because I was so alone, I'm thinking, I'm self isolating. I'm in a bubble.

I'm like, oh yeah. Like I get it. No, what she meant was the family. Like once everybody leaves after a celebration of life or funeral, whatever you do to honor your loved one, those people leave and then like the family's there, like the [00:45:00] wife of her brother, the kids, her mom, dad, again, I can't remember the whole fa family dynamic 'cause she was probably a sibling less than 10 at that point that I had interviewed.

So, but it was impactful and it's about the fact that they create a bubble. Like they're not gonna answer the phone anymore. They're, they just cooked and spent time together and watched movies together. And I just loved that. I loved that idea. It gives me chills right now, like, just like can feel it because I didn't have that experience and it made me feel hopeful telling this concept that she had spoken, done, keynote talks about, because I was like, oh my God.

So there is a healthy way to grieve. There is a healthy dynamic that can occur and happen. And I remember that being pretty impactful. Then I remember pretty early on, Rhonda, who lost her sister to breast cancer. She used the the backpack metaphor about grief and how, when you pick up a backpack that's full of [00:46:00] rocks the first time, and it weighs more than you do, you're probably gonna fall over.

But every, if you put that backpack on every day, eventually you're gonna be strong enough to maybe pick it up for a moment and then maybe set it back down. And then as time goes on, you'll be strong enough to maybe take a step with it. And the backpack is grief. And I thought that analogy was really amazing.

I remember Dr. Dondi Raimondo, who a lot of you guys know, she has a a car thing that she talks about with grief, where when you first lose a loved one. We talk about siblings though. So when you first lose your sibling, you're in a car, think of yourself as in a car and maybe grief is driving and you're in the passenger side.

Maybe eventually you're driving again, but grief is in the passenger side next to you. Maybe it's more manageable at one point, so maybe it's in the backseat. Then maybe you start to feel like you can live your life again. So it might be in the trunk, might pop out again on an anniversary and sit next to you.

Maybe it'll drive again. So that was a great one [00:47:00] too. Those were all really, I'm a big like analogy person or like if I can have some way to compare things or think about them logically, which is why therapy works so well for me, if I can have a point of reference or a way to think about something.

Those were pretty amazing. Those were really early on, but I've had so many amazing guests since that have shared and I think a lot of the guests since then have been very specific about how they lost their sibling. So I think. Like in our suicide episodes, understanding so many guests have talked about understanding that this isn't your fault.

There's really nothing that you could do to change this. Understanding that aspect. I think that's been so helpful to so many people. But for me, understanding more about that and for the homicide episodes too, the forgiveness aspect, that's been big. And I just think also I've learned so much from every person that has been on, but like early on those, it was so new to me [00:48:00] interviewing people about something so dark because I came from like a media background and interviewing people live on television and then also interviewing people on my opinion, which is like entrepreneurship and leadership.

This was so deep in getting these other perspectives. I think also anticipatory losses. That was really, I learned a lot from that as well and how painful that is and how. That journey is different, but it's still painful. So yeah, I'd say those are probably the biggest takeaways. Yeah.

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: those, I just, I love that too, the comparison with the car and the backpack and the grief bubble, right. When you said that, I thought, okay, so you're not really going out, in society or anything. But no, it's actually where you're protecting yourself in the sense where you decide how much you wanna share with others.

So, Bob, what incredible answers and what guests have shared. And yeah, like you said there, there's so many that have said such, just, powerful things that have really stuck with you. So Maya, I have questions of my own, because we became friends, [00:49:00] we've met in person, so I've really enjoyed our conversation just so much so far.

So you've mentioned in multiple episodes the importance of giving yourself grace and grief. You've mentioned it so much on social channels and just in general. So what does this mean to you when you say that and you know that you should be, you should give yourself grace and grief.

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: So it's really personal for me because I didn't. So it's I feel like I'm almost giving a message to the people do as I didn't. Right? It's like, yeah. That's where I'm at with it. And it's so interesting to me because so many guests that come on now, like that's, they're like, I have, I have advice I wanna give, but I, they like, that's, they'll never leave that out of their advice.

And so, like, makes me smile because I'm like, oh, this is really cool like that. It's not just me giving this advice to people because when you hear things from different perspectives but for me it's that first part, right? Do as I didn't. Because I didn't, I was so hard on [00:50:00] myself. I was so hard on myself.

The, in 2017 and 2018, as I had shared a little bit earlier, I was just, I was horrible to myself. I was so, I felt so guilty about the fact that I was not being able to help my brother. And that's crazy because I was the only one that was really doing anything to help my brother, which of course I found out later my dad was too, which is why we have a good relationship now.

But I like, oh my God, I look back and I wanna like hug 2017, Maya so much her little bony butt at that time because I was like not eating. I was so stressed out and I just felt like this was all on me. And I look back on that and I'm like, I wish someone had been like, you need to give yourself grace.

And then told me what that meant and what I would've said to 2017 Maya, I would've said, what that means is you are. A 30-year-old woman who is carrying all of this weight yourself. You are not the person that killed your brother. You didn't do anything wrong. You are doing the best that you can. And I, that's basically the message and kind of the second part of the [00:51:00] answer is whatever that translates for you, for all of you listening and Chelsea, you asked the question, like, that's what that means to me.

Going back and like talking to yourself and like letting your, like, it's okay. It's okay to have a movie night with your family and to laugh and enjoy life. It's okay. It's okay to go on a vacation. It's okay to not be able to go to work that day. It's okay. It is a, you've got a marathon ahead of you. This is not a sprint because you are gonna have this part of you for the rest of your life.

And I wish someone had told me that and that's what giving grace. Means to me because a lot of us do say it, and that's wonderful that we do say it. But I like that you asked me like, what does that mean to me? That's what that means to me. Like going back and giving that 30-year-old Maya a hug and like, oh my God.

Like if I wish I had that. And I hope I can do that for all of you and just know you are doing your best, but like you have a marathon ahead of you. Especially when you've lost a sibling to something [00:52:00] like a homicide or an unsolved maybe you lost them to fentanyl and there's an investigation or even suicide because there's so many unanswered questions.

There's so many things like you have to pace yourself. You're not gonna figure this out. This is not first 48, okay? You're not gonna figure it out on a TV episode. This is your life. And so be kind, be kinder to yourself. 'cause I was really hard on myself and it was toxic.

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: Yeah. No I completely understand that. So I have about three more questions last left and this is a big one too, and this might piggyback off of what you were sharing with Grace. So I've talked to siblings before. You've talked to many siblings before where they feel they can't grieve because they have to be strong for their parents because after all, they lost a child and parents shouldn't outlive their children.

And that continues to be shared in society as the major loss. And it may always be, but I think it's also important to not let others minimize our loss or absorb that energy. So what are your thoughts when it comes to a sibling's grief and their parents' grief?[00:53:00] 

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: I was hoping you would ask me this question. Yes. So this is so complicated and Charles, I get asked this almost on a daily basis, right? So it, this is so important to answer. So the first thing is like, look, of course, your parents' grief is important, right? It's. Very important. And from such an early age, we can all think back on movies.

Just even in society. Maybe you knew someone who lost a child, fill in the blank. It's been ingrained in us. The worst thing that can happen is to lose a child. It probably is. It probably is. But the reality is you've lost your brother, you've lost your sister. Maybe you've lost more than one sibling.

That's the worst thing that's happened to you. And I'm a big preach, preach about big preacher, about the fact that you shouldn't compare, you shouldn't compare grief. And it's actually another incredible guest. To go back to your question earlier for a second, Janice Jernigan, she was in early episodes as well.[00:54:00] 

She's wonderful. And a phrase she taught me too, in that kind of era when I was learning all these different things from the other guests I mentioned, she told me that comparing, she's really the one that drove that home for me. She was like, comparing is really the thief. Comparison is the thief of grief.

That's what she told me. And that stuck with me. Because we often hear that, right? Like comparison, comparing is a thief of joy. It's a thief of, it's a thief, but it is the thief of grief. And she talks about it in depth in the episode and I believe that as well. And it's very applicable when we're talking about parents.

So we feel this big responsibility to shove everything down as the surviving siblings and take care of mom. Check in with dad. 'cause we all know dads typically don't talk about it. Moms, some of them are more emotional with it, some of them are angrier. Like again, these are just status norms.

Maybe you have different in your family, but it is what it is. So we shove our [00:55:00] feelings down and we're like, okay, well we're gonna make sure mom eats, we're gonna make sure Dad at least talks to me today. Right? And. Look, I'm not opposed to you being there for your parents. I think that's a wonderful thing, but I think you also have to be really realistic about the fact that you've gone through a very traumatic loss as well, and you have to make space for yourself.

And it is the cliche thing of you have to put your mask on before you help other people. Like it's so cliche, and I say it all the time, but there's a reason they say that on planes and there's a reason they say, if you're in something traumatic, like put your life vest on first. Do those things first.

Because if you are not doing that for yourself, you are no good to anybody else. And I don't mean that as a person, but you're gonna burn yourself out, and then you're gonna find you're not actually able to help anybody else. And then you're 20 million steps behind in your own grief journey.

So it's like you're constant, I've seen this so many times where you're feeling like you're having to catch up, taking care of mom and dad, maybe other surviving siblings, and then you haven't done anything for yourself at all. So you've got to find a way to put yourself first because it's the only [00:56:00] way you're gonna be able to be there for anybody else.

And it's, I guess a follow-up thing I would just say to this too, Chelsea, is that I often get the, get this comment where, parents have said something negative to you as well during this experience and helped you get that internal dialogue of feeling like your grief is not as I as important as theirs.

Well, look, I'm not saying cut your mom off, cut your dad off. Like that's not my. Advice to give. I'm not a therapist, I'm just somebody who's been through this experience. Only you know if that relationship is toxic or not, or something you need to take a break from. But I can tell you right now if somebody's saying that, that's typically just their way of lashing out, right?

Your mom or your dad hear it more about moms than dads just saying. And I think you really at that point have to prioritize yourself even more. Because if they're gonna feel that way, they're definitely not gonna tap into how you're feeling. So yeah, I, I think it's a really delicate dance, but I think you have to really prioritize your grief and [00:57:00] make space for it.

And if talking to your mom or your dad about it isn't the space, find a community, whether it's ours or another community. 'cause there's others out there too where you can prioritize your grief because it's very real.

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: Right. And just such great points, like, where Yeah, absolutely. I can't imagine losing a child and just how, like you said, that it, that is such a significant loss. We know that in society, but you pointed out that, but the worst thing that happened to you was losing a sibling. Recognizing that, recognizing, putting the oxygen mask on you first.

And I think people may resonate with that in a positive way, where they think, oh, okay, maybe that heaviness on them kind of lifts. 'cause they think, oh, okay I can grieve, I can take care of myself in this way, or process it or seek out resources. I don't need to be consumed with being there for my parents.

But like you said, that doesn't mean you're not there for your parents. You decide, that relationship and how you navigate that, it's personal to everybody. Yeah. What, just wonderful answers that you had all in there. So, leads me [00:58:00] another question that some grieving out there they may disagree with.

It's four, what am I thinking of? Four words? This question? Does it get easier year?

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: Yeah. Then now you've hit the number one question I get. Yes. Does it get easier? Does it get easier? So it's so interesting because I see this pop up. I got almost on a daily basis on the TikTok comments, right. Charles?

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: I've seen it too. 

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: Does it get easier? Ask as a question and then like people saying, it never gets easier or like it change, like everyone has their own interpretation of this.

So here's my answer with this. So the answer is yes and no. It's just yes and no. But to go into the deeper version of it, like some people will fight me on this tooth and nail. They're like, it never does. And I'm like, let me explain what I mean to you. Okay? And when I put it this way, 99% of the time, maybe 98.

'cause there's some people that you know, it is what it's, get it. I think you guys will [00:59:00] get it. You listen to the show for a reason. So the reason I say that it. Does get easier is because I want you to think about like, if you're early in your grief journey, you're gonna be like, it's never gonna get easier.

It's normal that you feel that way. It's normal that you feel that way. Okay? And early for you might be one year early for you might be four years. It's very personal and it's subjective, right? Like it's subjective. We're not doing some kind of doctoral study on this show, although we've had incredible guests that are doing them right, but we're not.

And so it's objective to you. I know some people that are like in their second year and they're like, I feel like I should be moving forward a little more. But that's you. Some people are like, it's your tenant. It's still hard for me. So that might feel very early to you. That's fine. But what I mean by this is think about where you are.

For me it's nine years. I don't feel like I did the first year. I don't feel like I did the second year. I don't have trouble getting out of bed on a daily basis because my brother was killed in a homicide. I don't, are there some days that are [01:00:00] difficult? Yes. Okay. So this is the part where when I say does it get easier, that's the part of no.

And the reason I say no, yes and no is because it gets easier. Yes. Because I'm able to talk about this now and I'm able to have community and I'm able to share with all of you. And the majority of you are too. That's the yes side of it, right? You're able to go to work, you're able to take care of your kids, you're able to do whatever it is that you're doing in your life, right?

Like, you can do that. But the reason that it doesn't get easier is because the pain, the isolation of the pain, and the pain of missing your sibling is always going to be

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: It's that

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: always right. It's always going to be there. So I don't think, look, and so I, I've had this conversation with many people before, like live, and I've said like, look, can you honestly tell me. That you sitting here x amount of years later, wherever they're on their journey, do you honestly tell, you're telling me that you are feeling exactly the way you did the [01:01:00] first day that you heard this news? No. You're not. It's, but the pain of it being real is still there, right? So it's more of like an isolation.

It does impact your life, and it does feel big and it always feel big, but you have, as a lot of people say very well, you've learned to live with the pain. You've learned to live with the grief, and you've done things in your time to help with that. Whether it's go to therapy, whether it's find a community, whether it's read books, whether it's listen to the show, which thank you for listening to this show.

And so I just think that's what people need to think about. Like, does it get easier? It's like I get that question all the time and I'm ha always happy to answer it, but I also am like, this is not a yes or no question. There's really no such thing as a yes or no question in grief. It's a gray topic.

And so the yes component is it gets easier because you, like you're getting outta bed, you're brushing your teeth, you're showering, you're doing things like you do, watch this progression. But look, the reason I say no [01:02:00] is because time does not heal all wounds. It's what you do with the time.

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that's a great way to look at it, where someone's five years in and they're like it doesn't get easier. But then if you, if they recognize or think back to that first year, are you still in that fear first year or has there been growth? And one of the things I've personally learned is we shouldn't confuse healing with forgetting or letting go when it comes to grief.

You can still heal. That doesn't mean you're gonna forget them. That doesn't mean you're gonna let go. And I think that's where people make it hung up where, oh, it gets it, the easier, like, oh, okay, then that means I'm forgetting, or that means I'm letting go, or that means I'm okay with their passing.

No, that means you're healing, but you're not letting go of them. So yeah what a great answer with that and explaining that. So, leads me to my last question. So what are your long-term goals for the summit? So you've, this arriving Simply Summit, you created this virtual [01:03:00] event that's in kind of the spring.

It's, you've done it the last two years. You have incredible speakers, which I'm grateful to have been a speaker at the last two years. You have amazing sponsors. You have sharing sessions that are very specific to losses, that it's so unique what you're doing. No one else is really doing that. And in the sibling loss community, I feel like, where you have these sharing sessions for addiction, sudden loss, anticipatory loss, homicide, suicide.

So you create that diversity, you create a safe space and long lasting connections. So I would love to know what are your long-term goals for the summit? 'cause I know you're gonna continue doing this.

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: Yes, I'm definitely going to continue doing this. I think Chelsea should probably take over my show more often because your questions are really good. No, so this, so for those of you who don't know, I have been planning events. When this episode comes out, it'll be like 16 years. I've been doing this a long time and I've evolved through the pandemic with virtual, right, which is why when this idea started to [01:04:00] float around in 2023.

Yes. This is crazy. 2023. So yeah, people were asking me about it. They're like, why? Why aren't you doing an event? Because you are an event planner? And I'm like, yeah, I know. I've been doing events for a really long time and I had a vision for it. Pretty quickly. I had a vision for it when I started speaking at other events and had great experiences and really liked being around other siblings, but the events that I spoke at were family focused and like there was a sibling component to them, or they were homicide focused, which again, I think they're all wonderful organizations and I had a great experience, but for me, I knew if I did something, it would be sibling focused.

I'm never just gonna focus on homicide because while it's so important, I feel like the sibling rep representation is even more important because once we all connect, there's kind of those subcategories like you mentioned, and I'm, I'll get into that in just a second. I just felt more connected in the sibling community because my brother also struggled with drugs and alcohol and I thought I would always get that call. [01:05:00] That was where my anticipatory was from. I thought maybe. I always hoped for the best with him, but I thought maybe I'd get that call. Never in a million years thought I would get a call about homicide. So there's kind of those aspects for me. But after going to those events and then people asking me, I was like let's do virtual, because I liked the accessibility of it.

I liked the idea of, first of all, the affordability of it, the accessibility of it, and just the community of it. And I wanted to mirror something of what we do with Patreon because we have siblings all across the US and Canada that are on Patreon. And I wanted to do something even bigger for this event.

And that's exactly what happened. And the first year I was really just testing everything and then we took what worked the first year and what didn't work and involved it even more. But, I am a hundred percent committed to continuing to evolve it. A lot of people have asked me if we'll go in person.

I do think that we'll do an in-person component to it. I'd love to explore that maybe in the next two to three years. But when I say component, it's super important to me that I'm still able [01:06:00] to reach the virtual community because going to an event in person is so expensive. You have to buy a plane ticket, you have to have transportation to and from the airport.

You have to pay for meals, you have to pay for your hotel. You have to buy your ticket, which is a lot more expensive than a virtual event, right? So. I, again, I believe in inclusivity. I believe in accessibility, and I want everybody to be able to seek out these resources, which is why our events are so affordable and.

Right. So I do, I foresee an in-person component to it. Yeah. And I've produced events with 10 to 20,000 attendees. That's what I came up in this professional world doing. So it's not something I can't do, but. There's also a time for it, and so I foresee probably a retreat happening tacked on or something like that.

So follow us and stay tuned there. But as far as content, we'll continue to do the sharing sessions at the end, which you double clicked on in the beginning because I think it's the most important part of the event. I truly do. I truly do. [01:07:00] Because what we've done there is we've basically taken what we do with Patreon every month with our group and how we communicate and how we connect, which we do throughout the entire month, which is wonderful.

Right? If you wanna chat with us, I'm there. You guys are there. I also do dms there. It's beautiful. But our sharing is just siblings, but then when we go to the summit. We dial it in. It's very specific because I think we do homicide, we do suicide, we do overdose, we do sudden loss because sometimes people feel like they fit in multiple categories.

We do anticipatory loss, and those are the main categories that we share on. And it's worked really beautifully because those particular siblings, you're always in sudden loss. I'm in the homicide, I'm in there, and I think it's, I think it's just so incredible because you build an even deeper relationship and walking away from the summit at the end where you can just I don't wanna say trauma dump 'cause that's not what it is. But you take everything in that you've learned through the event and you've experienced in the event. And then you get to share your experience and [01:08:00] connect deeper with all these people that you've been virtually rubbing elbows with throughout the weekend.

And it's just it's a deeper connection that happens. And then you guys, whether, there's gonna be folks in there that just lost their sibling days ago, and then there's many years. We have some that are 50, 60 years and I think it's really beautiful because there's so much to share.

So I want to continue to do that. But what we'll continue to expand on is probably the length we'll continue to grow as we have more folks that wanna share and more folks that want to do you wanna pause? 'cause you have a dog? No.

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: Yep. Hold on,

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: Yeah. It's okay.

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: because my friends just got home.

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: It's okay.

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: She's making him go inside. Okay.

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: We're good. Okay, so yeah, so we'll continue to expand on sessions and it'll grow as as we have. Sponsorships grow. And I've just been so fortunate to have people from the beginning, like the Koch Foundation has sponsored us since day one. Not only of the event, but of the [01:09:00] podcast. And then we've had new people come in and other nonprofits and authors and coaches and just people that really fit our mission.

And that's what's most important to me too, because there is a booth component where people can go in and connect. And that was, I would say, even better than the first year. This year. I feel like our booths were really rich this year where they could go into, which, for those of you who. Don't understand that conceptually.

'cause sometimes if you haven't been to a virtual event, you're like, what is a virtual booth? Essentially you're going in and chatting with that organization or that individual that has a book or a service or something geared towards us as surviving siblings. And it's not as formal as going into like their session.

You just go in there and you chat with 'em and you find out like whether it's jewelry that you're buying from them to, honor your sibling all the way up to, if you need some extra coaching or love or if you wanna be a part of the nonprofit community. Like, COPE is pretty overall arching, but we've had organizations that focus on substance, abuse and addiction.

We've had some that are focused on suicide, some that are focused on homicide. So I think like, again, we're [01:10:00] just really dialing in more what the siblings need and that community. And I think that's, it's really beautiful and we've even gotten parents involved. Love From Heaven is another one that's been with us for two years and she continues to do stuff with us and she lost her son and she does this to honor.

Her surviving children. And I think that's been so amazing for me too, is to have parents get involved in their organizations. And so I see this continuing to grow. I think what was really phenomenal in 2025 is that we grew away outside of the us We had Canada, uk, Columbia New Zealand, Australia.

That blew my mind that folks were coming from all over. Obviously English speaking areas. So yeah, I feel like the sky's the limit and that's why I really like virtual and I'm excited to grow it. And, it'll be the last weekend of April. That's what we're tentatively holding it for now.

So, yeah. And I am, it's my event, right? So I'm open to suggestions too. So if you guys are listening to this and you, there's something you really wanna see and there's a need for [01:11:00] it. As Chelsea's seen in the past two years, I do it. If there's enough people that want it to happen, I make it happen. So, yeah.

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: Yeah, that, that ripple effect to reach other countries like that and to know that it's only gonna expand, it's only going to get better. And like you said, it just, there's so many different parts of it. There's so many, things to be involved in. And really what you touched on too, the sharing sessions, you make connections with people that live all over and then they're almost like your grief buddy, the same way that we have been and.

It's just so you know, you're bringing those relationships, you're bringing people together to where they're, exchanging phone numbers or whatnot, and then they're staying in touch and maybe sending gifts on birthdays and anniversaries and things like that. And it's gonna be this long lasting friendship, and that's because of what you've done.

So my head, that's all the questions that I have. And then of course going where we went through with our Patreon members and their questions that came in for you. So I am just so grateful, to give my thoughts. I'm so [01:12:00] grateful you created a podcast just for surviving siblings. 'cause it's a space that, it felt like was finally made for us.

So your courage to share, to hold conversations about sibling laws and to live voices often overlooked. It's just, it's left such a powerful impact on so many. So what started as me tuning in for comfort turned into one of the most meaningful friendships of my life. I don't wanna cry. We're almost done. So, okay. So, yeah, so we bonded through our grief, but what we've built together, it's full of strength, it's full of laughter. We talk every week for hours and it's full of understanding. So you turn loss into legacy, and I'm forever thankful for both your work and your friendship.

SS- Ep 10 Maya View: Thank you, Chelsea. Yeah. Oh, you're so sweet. Yeah. And I'm, thank you for doing this and interviewing me. I really wanted to answer all of these questions that you guys throw at me all the time because they're so good. And I wanted to give you like [01:13:00] a really well thought out response and I couldn't have done it without Chelsea giving me the questions.

I'm like, I don't wanna just sit here and read them. I want it to be interactive. And I wanted you guys to hear like what our. Interaction is like, and what our friendship is like, because as you mentioned, it has been amazing and it just was so organic and how it evolved. And you've made friends in this group outside of me as well, with some of the guests I talk to all the time too.

And it's just been really beautiful. And I want that for all of you listening. And that's honestly what our, why I created the Patreon community because it's a safe community. I said, okay, well how am I gonna do this? So Patreon is where I went and I'm really glad because I've now found out from the summit and from our support group, there's groups of you guys that have gone on trips together, that have met, have a friendship like Chelsea and I just think that's really beautiful.

And I, this is so far beyond what I ever would've thought. I just wanted to tell my brother's story. And so I'm excited to see where all of this goes. And I think we're just gonna continue to help more and more siblings. And I couldn't, again, I couldn't ask for [01:14:00] a better way to honor my brother Andreas.

SS- Ep 10 Chelsey View: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for this opportunity with being a guest host, being able to have this interaction with these questions. It's just been incredible. [01:15:00]