Dawn Loses Justin To Suicide

Dawn Loses Justin To Suicide- Podcast
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SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: [00:00:00] I have another incredible surviving sibling with me. Dawn, welcome to our show.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Thank you for having me today. I appreciate it.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Yeah, my pleasure. And today you're gonna be sharing your story about losing your brother Justin. So take us a little bit take us back in time. Dawn, tell us a little bit about your childhood. Tell us about Justin. Tell us about yourself. And I know you have another. [00:01:00] Surviving sibling as well. So tell us a little bit about that.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: So to start of about myself, I'm 45. I actually celebrated my birthday two days ago, so I'm freshly 45. I grew up with a visual impairment, so my life has been a rollercoaster of things. Living in the eighties with a visual impairment, it was very difficult, but I always had Justin, having my back.

He was four years younger than me, but a lot of people thought we were basically twins. We were two peas in a pod, had the same personality, really goofy, loved playing pranks. Like you said. I have another brother, he's three years younger than me, and we just loved pranking him like one time. Justin and I, we got up early one day and we turned all the clocks up and Jason thought he was late for school and we're laughing, eating, cereal while he's rushing and he thinks so.

We did things like that all the time and around the time I was 14 my parents divorced and then [00:02:00] they both got remarried. So I have a huge extended family basically growing up there.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: I love that. I relate. To your story in the sense that like my, I'm the oldest too, Dawn, I'm, I think you probably know that now. And a lot of you guys listening know that. And there's a middle sibling in between my brother and I and we were pranksters too. So I definitely can that part of your story.

I get that. My brother was definitely a prankster, so I love that. So tell us, if you don't mind sharing a little bit with us, Don, tell us a little bit about. Your visual impairment, tell us were you were born with this, can you share it with.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: basically I was born with what's called congenital nystagmus, and it's basically a muscle reflux where my eyes don't have control of how they move. I had a lot of surgeries that were very experimental in the eighties. Some of it was fixed, but unfortunately a few years back, I had a really [00:03:00] bad eye infection.

I've actually lost my vision in my left eye from a complication, but I never I never let it stop me. I live a normal life. With it, with accessibility tools, so I don't try to let it define me like I used to when I was younger, but there, there are still times that it can, bother me.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Yeah. Thanks for sharing that with us. Yeah, I think tell, so tell us a little bit about you and Justin, how Justin's your baby brother. So how, as you were growing up, was he really protective of you because of what you were going through and tell us a little more about your connection. You were pranksters.

I love that, but tell us a

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Yeah, we, he just never treated me like I had a disability. We were always close. We did, we had a lot of the same interests, whether it was like playing video games or going to the movies. Going to amusement parks, like great adventure. We were coaster junkies, stuff like that. We loved doing all that type of stuff over the [00:04:00] summer.

And he was very intelligent. He was a valedictorian when he graduated high school.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Oh my gosh. Now you guys were four years apart, so were you a senior and he was a freshman when you were in high school, or what? What did that look like?

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: when I graduated, he went into high school. So we just like missed each other when I loved high school and went into college.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: We have so much in common on, because it was that my brother and I were three years apart, but because I was young for my grade and he was older for his grade, we missed each other too. Like he went into high school and I went into college. So I connect with you on that too. Yeah. '

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Cause my other brother, he was a freshman as I was a senior.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Yeah, I, yeah I totally connected 'cause my, yeah, my sister was in school, in, in high school with me too. 'cause we were only a year apart. I, we have a lot in common. I didn't realize that. Yeah.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: The stories I like, even at his funeral, like I told so many jokes about pranks I played on Jason [00:05:00] and one, one that was really funny since my birthday just passed was that when I turned 25, my. Jason, he gave me this card that said, you're old. And I said, you just wait until your birthday on the 23rd.

He goes, what do you mean? I said, just wait. And at the time Justin was a pharmaceutical. Like tech at CVS and he got a fake pill bottle. We filled them up with Mike and Ikes and we put on like a fake label saying for, for baldness. 'cause my brother started losing his hair and we were just rolling on the floor when we gave him the gifts.

So this is the type of antics we were up to

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: I love it. No, thanks for share. Like I, thanks for sharing that. It's so funny.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: And I told the, and I told this story basically at. Funeral. So, and everyone laughed and that's what he would've wanted. He wouldn't want people to cry. So I told a funny story during my eulogy.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Yeah. [00:06:00] Oh my gosh. I love that and I think that's so amazing because we have a lot of you guys listening are, sometimes people are like, what do I say? Or what, I love that you stayed really true to who Justin is even and

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: And I'm sure you saw the pictures I sent you. We did a prank during my wedding too. I don't know if you saw that picture

I sent you. Basically, you know that, you know the tradition where you throw the bouquet and then you do the whole garter thing. So what we did is that we blindfolded the person who caught the garter, and Justin then sat in the seat where the girl who caught the bouquet and he actually shaved his leg and everything.

It was the best moment of the night.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: That is so funny. I love it. I love it. That gives us a really good insight into like your connection and your relationship. I love that. So tell us a little bit, take us forward in time because you. You obviously lost Justin in 2013, and we're gonna get into that in a few moments. But tell us a little bit [00:07:00] about Justin, because you had shared with me before we started recording that Justin got into gambling, and so tell us a little bit about that and his personality and how all of this happened because that was, an evolution and as the older system, I'm sure you have a lot of insight into that.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Well, for me, and when I go through the whole story, I actually did not realize how bad it was his gambling. I did not know. I knew he liked to gamble, like sometimes go to the casino, but like I gamble, I go, once in a while, blue Moon, but. I actually did not know how bad it was, so it just, it came out at the end and I found out things, and I guess when we get to that point, you know how I felt and how I agreed.

I was so angry because I would've helped.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: You wish you had known. So this was not something that your family was aware of or even knew that was happening with him. This was like a double like life that he was [00:08:00] leading.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: He was very active. He was on the track team and he was great at it, loved it. But then he ended up having a health issue. I don't know the exact terminology.

I kind of wish Jason was here 'cause he's a nurse. What happened was that his intestines intertwined in a way where he had to have par, his colon taken out, and that basically ended anything he was doing with track and stuff. So I think maybe with the gambling it just, maybe he was filling a void or something.

That's the only thing I can interpret. Because of his health, he stopped going to school and I think he just spiraled on his own and just didn't tell anyone. 'cause he always hid behind a smile all the time.

If you've lost a sibling, trust me. I know exactly how you feel. I'm Maya. I'm the host of the Surviving Siblings Podcast, but I'm also the founder of Surviving Siblings Support. [00:09:00] I know that going through this experience is extremely difficult. Whether you've lost a brother like me, a sister, or perhaps more than one sibling, trust me, we know exactly how you feel.

So that's why I started our Patreon account. You can click below to find out more about our Patreon. If you join our Patreon group, it'll give you just a little bit of extra support that you need along your journey. As a bereaved sibling or as we like to call it a surviving sibling. We offer monthly support groups.

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SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: So in high school when this happened. So he was an athlete, right? So that was like his identity. And then he was diagnosed with this and he had to have surgery, and then that's when you guys felt, you and your brother felt like a big shift in the family, I'm sure, or felt a shift with Justin and he wasn't himself anymore.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Yeah. And then, also, like I had my own life. I had, I just, I had a, I got pregnant, I had my own family, I had my own things going on. So did Jason. So I think it was just, and he hid behind the smile, so we really didn't know how much turmoil was within him.

I wish he would've told me because I [00:11:00] would've listened.

There's things I've told him, he's taken to the grave, I guess you can say. So we were that close. So that's what made me really upset with the whole situation when everything happened.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Right. So let's go into that. Let's go into that part of your story. So take us to the moment that you wanna start telling us about how you lost Justin. Take us through that story.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Sure. So, around that time 2013, I was basically in the best shape of my life. I just had my second child in 2010, so she was around two and a half. I lost all the weight. And also this is obviously I should have mentioned this too. He was in a relationship and he was engaged and he was a month out from.

Being married when this all happened. We just had the bridal shower. I picked up my dress, we were getting hair points, everything was like in place. So, and I just became a Zumba instructor. I just [00:12:00] got a new job. I'm a bookkeeper, so I got a job at a firm. So like basically everything was like, great. So now around this time, he was supposed to graduate college, so I was like, oh, I just got a new job. What time's the graduation? I can't wait to see you walk. It was all this going on. So, so, and he's oh no, you don't have to come to my graduation. I was like, no, I wanna. So then it was May 17th.

My uncle's birthday was just the day prior to and I was just doing my normal Friday thing. I went to work, I went and cashed my check. I went and I taught a Zumba class, and then I get a phone call from his fiance. I'm gonna call her Jane because I don't wanna give her real name. So that.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: yes. 

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: I'm gonna call her Jane.

She calls me and says, have you seen Justin? I was like, no. [00:13:00] She's well, he's not home. My car is gone. I said, haven't heard from him. I don't know. I was like, I just got home from class. So now we're all, and my mother and my stepfather are also up in Albany. My stepsister just graduated, so they're not even home either.

And now everyone's frantically trying to call him. No answer. No answer. And my husband, he worked overnight at the time, so he's do you want me to, stay? I'm like, no. It's just it's I dunno, maybe he's just, he's having cold feet, he's getting married in a month, he's fine.

So now we're waiting, everyone's calling. And then I get a call from my father at midnight and he's he's dead. And I was like. What do you mean? He's dead Like you dead. Like he found him and you gotta, I'm gonna beat him up. He's no, he's dead. And I just blacked out. Like I couldn't believe it. And I'm like, what do you mean?

And then basically my [00:14:00] father found him in the woods, hung from a tree

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: And this is your, so your parents were married to other people

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Correct. So this is my biological father who found him in the woods. They happened to find the car, and they just happened to just look around the area. And for some reason, my father had instincts to go into the woods, and that's where he found him. I'm screaming, I'm crying. I called my husband, so he rushed home. My best friend came over. She basically read, ran red lights to get to me. 'cause I called her too, saying he's missing, I don't know where he is. So she rushed over and waited with me until my husband got home.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Well, we love your friend. What a great friend,

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Yeah. Yeah. My ride and die. Yeah.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: You're ride and die. I love that. Yes. And what is her name?

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Nicole.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Nicole, we love you, Nicole. It's those friends that really help us during these times. [00:15:00] Your, oh my god, your poor father, Dawn. Okay. So does he share with you at that time what he found in the woods?

Does he share with you how your brother passed

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: No. Well, he was all, obviously distraught the moment and I was just, I hung up 'cause I was just like wailing. I couldn't even. Speak, and my daughters at the time one was two and a half and the other one was six, like five, six. 'cause they're fall babies. So I'm screaming, I'm crying, I tell them to go back to bed.

I'm trying to compose myself and 'cause I'm by myself.

And I just, I cried all night. I just cried all night.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: And you had this amazing friend that came over your Roger Guy, which thank God for her. So you guys, you made it through the night and obviously it's very challenging. So what happened next and when did you learn more about the situation?

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Well the next day I [00:16:00] went to my mother's obviously she had a comeback down from Albany. So we met up at my mother's and it was. Just crying. There was like no talking. I didn't get the full details until I talked to my other brother and I just, I couldn't believe it. They, and he the only thing they found on his person was a duffle bag, and it also had lottery tickets signed over to Jane, like in case he won, so we just we couldn't put like. A to B2C, like why he would even do this. So basically, everything happened quickly. His funeral was on the 22nd, and one thing I remembered was when I first saw his body in the coffin, he was cremated, but at the wake he, his face, it was like he wasn't smiling.

And I remember going to the funeral director like, you have to. Whatever you need to do, take the stitches and whatever. I was like, you gotta change his mouth. I [00:17:00] can't see him frowning. And they actually were amazing and they actually fixed his mouth the, that day. And then when I went to the wake, the next, the following, so they were wonderful.

The funeral depar parlor, they were excellent. And I just was like yelling. I was like, please wake up, please. I was just a mess. And as, I guess you can say, as the oldest yourself, I got to the point where like I had to start being strong for everybody, 

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: No, I completely relate to that. I think I still carry that. And you probably feel the same way 12 years later, like you're still carrying that role. I think it's just a part of who we are and where you're built into the family. I totally understand that. I wanna go back for a second though, John, before we go forward.

So Jason your other brother is the one who shared with you that your brother. Was found in the woods, because I wanna be very clear about

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Yes, because yeah, because, yeah, because he met up with my father after [00:18:00] he got the phone call. I was home alone. And I know, obviously I'm visually impaired so I don't drive. And my kids were home and I couldn't leave them obviously. So I was stuck at my place. But I got the information from Jason 'cause he.

Went to the spot where it happened. So he told me

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Yeah. And you mentioned that there was like a bag with these tickets

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: A duffel bag. Yeah. Full. Yeah. Just with, lottery tickets and nothing else really.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: There was no note. There was nothing. It was just that. And was that in the car or that was near him and

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: It was near him. 'cause he took it. Like deep into the woods I don't know, if they never found the car, like I don't know if they would've even found him. It was just the grace of God that we did find him,

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Right.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: because I don't know if the way he did it, like he even wanted to be found in a way.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: People listening to this or people that have gone through this or lost [00:19:00] someone to suicide. We'll connect with that, Dawn, because Yeah, you just, and we're gonna talk about this as we move forward, but there's so many unanswered questions when you lose someone like this, which we'll talk about as you continue down your story.

So, yes. So, so you have a wake. But he was cremated after the wake is what you were sharing, but what, yeah, what a what? Beautiful folks that they were like, you were like, I don't like, and you did definitely go into eldest child syndrome like I always do. No, I don't like the way he looks. I want him to look like

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: I, it was like, like I saw him, I went to the bathroom, I threw up and then I talked to the funeral director you gotta change his mouth. I can't even look at him. And my poor father, he just, he never even went into the room 'cause he couldn't look at him. In the coffin, like the funeral director let you know, close the lid for him so he can actually go into the room and, which is understandable.

I'm a parent so I couldn't even imagine losing a [00:20:00] child. But with this platform, when you lose a sibling, it's like a snowflake. Like all our, like even if you're the oldest with your brother, it's still a different relationship that I have with my brother. It's like this unique relationship.

That no one can understand. You could listen and sympathize, but the understanding of the actual relationship is just so unique on what I lost.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: I love that you say that, Dawn we just met recently, and I say that too. I know you don't know that, but I say it's like a grief is like a snowflake. So That's so weird that you said that. I love that. That's so cool. But

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: I am theatrical, so I love, like I'm all about symbols and stuff like that.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: I love that you said that though, because there's no way you could've known that I say that, but Yeah. I say the same thing and I love that you're you have your own spin on it where you're like, the relationship is like a snowflake. You're right. It's so unique. It's so interesting that you say that because I tell people all the time, [00:21:00] especially when they have other surviving siblings like you do, I'm like, look, and they get upset because they say things like, well, my other sister isn't grieving my.

Sister or my brother the same way as me. I'm like, yeah, because their relationship, like you said so beautifully, is a snow. It's a different version. It's a different, no one else is gonna grieve that same person the way that you're gonna grieve them because you have a unique relationship. I think you just totally hit that on the nail.

Yeah.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: like one example throughout the first year of everything, I actually found a nonprofit called, it was a, basically a survivor suicide. Grief group and they had a convention. So I went to the convention, I'm like, you know what, maybe this will help. And during the convention, they broke out into subcategory.

So obviously I went with the siblings and it just, I still wasn't connecting because

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: you think that was?

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: I just like I said, like no one could understand the relationship. And a lot of it was like, not suicide, not gambling, [00:22:00] not so, everyone's story had a unique. Story. So I'm like, I'm still not connecting.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Yeah. I love that thank you for sharing that because I it's so important on this show that we have folks that represent each type of loss. Because you're right, like most events that you go to, it's done by, there's different support groups for different things, they lump the sibling loss altogether.

And while there are things that we can connect with, oh, I lost my brother. You lost your brother. There are unique things in our losses that are different and connecting with those people that understand, like for you to connect with someone that lost their brother. By suicide and in the same way in suicide.

And also someone who, went through gambling and all, you're gonna connect on a deeper level than you're gonna connect with myself or a sibling that lost a sibling to cancer or, so I thank you for mentioning that. I think that's why there's power in representation and sharing so many different types of [00:23:00] sibling stories, because there's a lot, there's a lot of different ways we can lose our siblings.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Yeah. And plus, another thing, that we dealt with at the very beginning with the loss was that I felt like my parents were very not, I don't know, ashamed is a word, but it's like when you're a parent, you're like, oh my God, this was like all my fault. 'cause I was the parent. We, they didn't want us to say anything.

They just wanted us to say, oh, he was sick. Not the actual truth, so, doing this. Podcast it's like I'm telling the world like, no, this is what happened, and I'm not ashamed of saying that. It just, it happened and it's real.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Right. So even when you, and this is very common, Dawn, so I appreciate you sharing this too because I hear this from, and I'm sure a lot of you guys went through this where, mom, dad maybe the Jane in the family, right? Like the soon to-be wife they don't wanna talk about that and that's that's okay because that's their part. But it can be really difficult for a surviving sibling like yourself [00:24:00] and like me, where we want to be honest because we feel like there's no shame and we wanna bring awareness and we don't want other people to go through this. 'cause you were mentioning earlier when we were chatting about, you just wish Justin would've chatted with you and opened up to you and let you know so. Take us down that. 'cause I feel like that's a good transition. So as the days were like, when were you starting to find out about all of this? Share that with us if you don't mind.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Yeah. So, well that's a perfect way of going into what happened after the funeral. So Jane basically went to his job to clean out his locker and she found like resume paper that was open, which was weird to her. And. Basically also what happened was my mother called the college to say, you know this happened, he's deceased.

He, we wanna collect his, his diploma. So now they tell my mother, he dropped out a year and a half ago, two years ago, and my mom's what do you mean he was supposed to graduate? He has a diploma that he showed me a picture of [00:25:00] it and he never graduated. He dropped out, didn't tell anyone.

So this is where the part of what he was hiding, and I guess it ate up at him on top of whatever gambling debt, he now also allocated that. We didn't know about. 'cause my parents, I found out down the road, they did find out about one time he had a really bad debt and they cashed him out and then he got back into a hole again.

And the fiance, Jane, she didn't know about it either. So I think what happened was now, like, when I was going back to what I was saying before about things that were going on and saying, oh, I wanna come to your graduation and everything. He did this before the actual graduation date because it would've all came out that I didn't graduate.

I dropped out and I have all this gambling that, so I think he just didn't wanna face the disappointment.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: And [00:26:00] Jane didn't know about, she didn't know about any of this either school, nothing. She didn't know anything.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: no. He would disappear like he was going to classes basically.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: So did you guys, where was he going? He was gambling.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: don't know that these are a lot of unanswered questions. We don't know what he did during the day. We don't know.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Yeah. And those are very challenging, the unanswered questions. Yeah.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Because this is something he could have come like Dawn, like I don't feel good. I dropped out. I'm gambling again, which like, these are things he could have came to me and I would've never judged him or said, oh my God, you shouldn't be doing this. You're getting, I would've been there for him.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: So Jane shared this with the family, right? As she found this. And so you guys, I'm sure you just kept peeling back.

Of these, all of this. So what, as you guys were peeling this back, how, like how did you guys keep evolving and how did you keep, I'm sure it was just a lot of information to take in, but what was that like over the next year and how were you guys [00:27:00] communicating about this?

Yeah.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: it was like I was very angry at the beginning, obviously, and, I really, it was hard to deal with and this is where my life. For my grief took like a bad turn. Like I said, at the time before it happened, I was in great shape of my life. I had a new job. I became a Zumba instructor.

So what happened was the day that he was supposed to get married, I decided like usually I have a very logical brain, but all logic in my brain with my grief just went out the window. I decided to do one of these mud runs. I don't know if you know what those are.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: I do. Yeah.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: so, and everyone, it was like a, the Christmas story movie where you're gonna break your ankle, you're gonna break your ankle.

And I was like, no, I'm not. I'm gonna be fine. I'm in good shape, I'm gonna be fine. 'cause I didn't wanna sit home and cry on the day of the wedding. I was like, I gotta do something. So I went with Jason upstate to the Catskills to do this mud run. I was doing great. I was going through all the obstacles, this [00:28:00] and that.

I get to the last obstacle. I scale a wall. I come down, my foot slips and I break my ankle in two places, and the finish line, I could see it. Basically I wanted to crawl to it, but I shatter my ankle basically. So now like I feel like I failed. I'm like, I failed him. I didn't finish this. So basically my broken ankle, it cost me my job.

I lost my job. I lost the, I couldn't teach Zumba anymore, and I just, and it happened. Like two weeks before my birthday, I was in surgery on my birthday that, that year. So it was like the worst birthday ever. And going back to like, why I like doing this podcast now is that all of our birthdays, me, Jason, and Justin's birthdays were in August.

Jason's the 23rd and Justin was the 31st. So we always said like he was just in time for August. That was like our little thing.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: That's just in

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: [00:29:00] In time.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: I love it. That's so cute. And your birthday to share with us, Dawn

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: was the seventh. It just passed. So we're all August babies.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Yes.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: So it was really bad 'cause I became very depressed obviously. I ate a lot, I gained a lot of weight back.

And then after my ankle healed, I actually became pregnant with my third child. So my, and I named her after him. So her name's just, her name's Justine, so I

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: I, I was like, it's either Justine or just, I was like, okay.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Always. No, it's, well, well we did Justine, because my last name's Spina, so we didn't want it to be Justine. A spina. It's, it was

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Oh yeah,

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: too

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: that would've been a rhyme at school, right? Yeah.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Yeah, no. No, so, and her middle name, like his middle name was Brian, so we gave her the middle name Brianna. So we fully named her after him and she looks like him, which is really, this is like with symbols, which is really strange. She's also left-handed [00:30:00] like him. Her smile looks like him. So it's like, it was like weird little things like that as she started growing up.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: That is really cool though. Thanks for sharing that with us because I get this question a lot from people or people just want to talk about it. You guys who listen they ask. Will it be too hard if I name, my child after my and I think it's, I, you tell me 'cause you've done this.

I have not done this, Dawn. I think it's personal, right? Because I think it's for some people, and I think for some people, because my youngest sister, she doesn't mind me sharing this. Her first child, she named after my brother, but she gave his name for the middle name, right? She was like, I think it'll be too hard for me 'cause I'm still newly bereaved.

To call our brother's name every day. But it's interesting because now that my nephew is four, if he gets in trouble, she says his full name. And so I asked her when I was visiting this time recently, I said, is it hard for you to say, you know our brother's name? She goes, now, no, but I know I made the right [00:31:00] decision at the time and I, and that was her decision.

But I think it depends on the person. And for you, you knew you. I am assuming you just felt like this was. Right. But has it ever been hard for you? Is it bittersweet sometimes? Or is it a good thing for you to have someone like this?

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: it was just it. It was just right. Like I, when I became pregnant, it was like I have to name. If it's a boy or girl somehow, like my husband's name is Douglas, so if it would've ended up being a boy, we would've made it the middle name. So, and it was just like, I knew it was just, it was the right thing to do.

It was just so natural. It was like the first thing I thought of when I became pregnant. I was like, gonna name the baby after, after him.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Yeah I connect with that too because that's always been my thing too. I'm like, whatever happens if I have a child, like it's gonna be something around my brother. So I connect with that

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: and my daughter did she brought, she did bring a lot of happiness back into, the grief that we were all in because she was born, basically a little over a year and a half after he [00:32:00] passed.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: That was literally my next thing. I was going into, I wanted to ask you that because I've had other people even on this season talk about, how difficult, obviously we're talking about sibling laws. We'll talk about how difficult it's, but talking about the joy of bringing life in when you're going through such a dark.

And it can be such a light. And so that was your experience with bringing Justine into the world very shortly after. 'cause you're deep in grief. So can you share a little bit more about that with us, Dawn? Because I have a lot of women that listen that are pregnant during the time of the loss or pregnant thereafter or very soon.

And it's difficult because they, you are holding. This great pain of losing your brother or sister, but you're also holding so much joy of bringing new life in. Can you share a little bit about that and can you give some advice to these women going through that? Because I think it is difficult because you are holding two very extreme emotions, right?

You're holding this pain of a deep [00:33:00] loss, but you're also bringing in a new life, which I mean, what's more joyful than that?

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Yeah, well, like that's why I said like why, I think when I named her after him, it was like I had a part of him back in a way. So I think that's how I took it, it was nice. It was nice to smile about something, to be happy about something.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Yeah. How did you manage that though, while you were grieving and also being pregnant? Because that's something that comes up a lot with our listeners. How did you navigate that?

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: yeah, I can't remember exactly all my emotions 'cause it was, 12 years ago. But I got through it. I, the pregnancy wasn't hard and it was just, I enjoyed being pregnant. It was just like, I felt happy, but I still did have my moments, through the first holidays, the first anniversary of his death.

So, those moments. I dealt with, I think, and then also like being the older sibling, I was [00:34:00] also still being strong for everyone as they grieved. So I felt I'm sure you've talked to other people, like I fell into that category where I took care of others before my own grief.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: So, yeah, tell us a little bit more about that and I think, yeah, so many of us, especially the eldest in the family, we put everyone before ourselves and it can, did you find that prolonged your grief a little bit or what was your experience with that?

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: It did it really prolonged a long time because a lot of it, like I prolonged it because a lot of stuff was happening in my life. Like I mentioned before, I had a really bad eye infection from a surgery. I just moved into a bigger house, so, it was like I put my grief on the back burner.

It was still festering in there, but it was just forgotten about. 'cause I gained a lot of weight. I wasn't as active. I was just, I became very robotic just moving through the motions of the day, having, three kids [00:35:00] now. So, I got to the point where I was like, when I gained it was like 80 pounds or something and I just stepped in it.

I can't do this anymore. I have to deal with this.

And I just, started talking the truth about he committed suicide, he wasn't sick, 

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: when was that? Because that's a big moment. You're looking at the scale. I gained this weight. It was like, I'm gonna, because our body physically manifest this stuff. And that's what was going on for you, it sounds 

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: yeah, and the weird part it wasn't any type of grief counseling. It was actually Weight Watchers is where I first really talked about it,

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: I love that.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: yeah, and it just it really didn't really hit me how much on the back burner my emotions were about then. How much of the weight was really the weight on my shoulders and the physical weight was on me.

And when I started really. Telling people about my life and everything at these Weight Watchers, like the weight just started coming off because I was sharing. I [00:36:00] was really sharing.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: You and you were shedding.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Yeah.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: this out of your, you were emotionally releasing and it's interesting what happens because you were, and then it just as, 'cause you were holding this in. Wow. I'm so glad you shared this part of your story because I, that obviously was a contributing factor, having to hold all of this in.

So at what point was that, so 2013, obviously May is when we talked about Justin, but at what point was that a year? Two, three? Where were you at?

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: it was like 2019. It was way after. It was just, I just I can't do this no more. It was just way after.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Six years, dawn. Wow.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: That's when like things I started I was like, I can't lie to my, not only to just like myself, but just anyone I talk to about it. It just felt better. I felt better about myself like saying this, this is what really happened.

But, I still have my moments. I still like [00:37:00] basically his ashes were, they're not in one urn, like I have a little one and some of his ashes were put at a plot where my parents will be eventually buried, so I'll go to, I'll yell at him, and stuff like that. So,

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: That's okay. I do the same thing with my brother. I have a little urn too. I don't know if you know that, but I have a little urn too. And yeah, my brother's ashes. Like everybody had, did their own thing. Like a lot of my brother's ashes are in a creek, which a lot of you guys. Snow which I go to every year on his anniversary.

That's where we did his celebration of life. But I have a little urn. My dad got a little urn and anybody else who wanted some of the ashes. Got it. But I'm the, I think I'm the only one still with my urn. My father has the urn, but he spread his ashes in Africa. But it's, I think I, I talked to him too, I talk to him too.

So it relates to

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: mine's like on my kitchen, like window sill. So I see it every day. And when my middle child, Victoria she used to play basketball in middle school and she got to the champion, so I brought the earner with me come on, help her out, so.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: that. Oh my God, that's so [00:38:00] cool. I love that. And I really love that you're sharing about six years later because so many of you guys who listen to the show we just, there's so much pressure, dawn, from society and just not understanding grief. It's been a year. You should be over this.

It's been two years. Get over it. I think it's really amazing that you're sharing that six years in you had. This moment where you had, you had gained emotional and physical weight. Like what you were carrying, like my shoulders feel so much lighter. You just sharing this part of your story because there's no timeline.

Everybody has their own timeline. Just like you shared that the relationships are like snowflakes. I feel like your timeline is like a snowflake too, because it's so unique to your own experience and you are having. To not be fully honest about how you lost your brother. Like what a big thing to be carrying around.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: And I like what you mentioned about society 'cause it's also like, how does [00:39:00] society view suicide too? 

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: I definitely wanna touch on that. I definitely wanna touch on that because I think. In 2025, we're doing better than ever, but I feel like it can always get so much better because I still feel like there's stigma around it and I don't think there should be at all. But back in, in 2013 when you lost Justin by suicide.

Please. We were not like we've done leaps and bounds in 12 years. We have a long way to go, but I do have empathy and I understand where your parents are coming from because there is, there, there is stigma around it even today. And I hate that. I hate that so much because, it is such a difficult loss because of all of the unanswered questions and because you've, and because as a surviving sibling, you feel like you shared this earlier.

So I wanna dial into this again. You feel if you had just talked to me, Justin you live, did you live with this guilt? If you had, if I had just known, if I had just I could have [00:40:00] changed this, did you live with that Dawn? How was that for you?

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: like every day when I have my mom moments, just you should have just talked to me. And like sometimes like lights will blink in my house. I'm like, oh, hi. You're visiting me today. It's oh, you're deciding to talk to me today.

So it's like even in afterlife, all like busting his chops,

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Yeah. Well, yeah, you two are pranksters, so that of course would translate

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Yeah when my daughters were young and we had a huge toy box, like the toys would just turn on by themselves. I would be taking batteries out of everything. Very child play, so it was just like, stop it, stop turning the toys on.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: I love that though. I love, I think that's really cool. 'cause we talk a lot about signs too, and I do believe in them. Not everybody does, but I do. But how, share with us, Dawn, how did you I'm sure, I think for. From what I know. I think it always stays with you, right? Like that feeling of if he had just talked to me or if I'd just known like I could fix it, but, and I How have you been able to move through that though?

Because I don't think [00:41:00] you fully ever get over that, but I do think that, you're sharing your story with us so openly today. I do think you get to a point where you can move through it, and I, that's one of the number one things I get asked by people who have lost a sibling by suicide. They're like, how do I.

How do I get past feeling guilty? Like I could have changed something, can you share some advice on that or how you've gotten past that?

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: I think it does still go back to that point when I was at Weight Watchers. Just talking about it. Just talk about it. No, the good and the bad and the ugly. It's just, it's. All there, and without talking about it, you're never really going to deal with it. It's just being honest. You can't change what happened, but you could still talk about it.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Yeah. I love that. And I think there is in, in your story, I think there's a moment where you. Like when you saw like what it was doing to you physically and like you needed community. And what I love about you gonna Weight Watchers is I say all the time, I'm [00:42:00] like, community is the best thing that you can do for yourself.

It might not, maybe it's not like for you, it wasn't a sibling support thing that didn't work out that way. It turned out to be Weight Watchers. And I think people underestimate the power of community and it might not be like. It doesn't necessarily have to be, maybe it's not a suicide group, maybe it's not a sibling loss group, but community is life changing and your story shows that because when you connect with other people it helps tremendously in the healing journey and it obviously is evident in your story.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: and obviously your podcast is doing that for everyone who listens to it and every, anyone who actually comes on and does this with you.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: That's the goal. And so we're, we're here eight seasons later and it's, I feel so honored that folks like you don wanna share their story and be so open, because that's, I find that's what we need more than anything else in life, is to know that someone else has been through this. We're not alone. They made it through and we can too. [00:43:00] There's power in that. I think it's amazing. Tell us a little bit about this is something that comes up too, a lot. Donna, you touched on this, but I wanna go back to it. The unanswered questions that part of losing a sibling by suicide, like the duffle bag with the lotto going to Jane, and all those unanswered questions, how have you navigated that?

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: It's hard to not navigate because it's just, it went against his personality. To hide things like that. Especially something like that from me, I just couldn't understand it and I still can't understand it until this day because you try to go back and I think that's the hardest thing about suicide is that you're always going saying the what ifs and the what ifs.

And those things just can never change, no matter how much you wanna change those questions. It's, you just have to not accept it, but it's like it's [00:44:00] just always going to be there. Those questions, and I wish I could answer them, and I'm sure anyone who's had lost anyone, whether it's a sibling or anyone else, a friend, or that, it's like they're always gonna have, why did they do that?

Why didn't they talk to me?

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: But you feel like talking about it and finding community and people around you, that was the turning point for you in being able to.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Definitely. Like I found, like I was crying less, like I could just talk about him. Because and I think also leaving the apartment where I used to live in 2016 where I got the news, I think that kind of eased the pain too. 'cause I wasn't in that same room when I got. The news. I think being away from there and my environment changing also helped me as well.

Because I don't know if you ever had that moment where you're like, this is where I was like, like the nine 11 thing. Like I know exactly where I was, [00:45:00] at, what time, what it felt like, what was, going on that exact moment.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: A hundred per Thank you for bringing that up because I a hundred percent relate to that and I know a lot of people here can relate to that too. I was at a friend's house when I got that call, and I haven't been to that house in years and even more so. The condo that I was living in at that time, I didn't realize this, but I probably should have sold it long time ago.

I sold it in 2020 or 21. I can't remember now off the top of my head, but, with family coming there and going through, like we were going back and forth to the, I wasn't going back and forth. They were, but that was where I was, where he was in the hospital for a couple days, even though he, I was just waiting for family to say goodbye and I didn't realize staying in that place.

For longer than I probably should have. 'cause I was there for another four or five years, probably shouldn't have done that. Yeah. So I think, like I thank you for, I've never [00:46:00] talked about that with someone before, so I'm glad we're talking about it because sometimes you just need those changes. Right.

And I think that can help propel you a little bit forward in your grief journey too, because being in that place or being it's a constant reminder.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Yeah well, 'cause going back to when I broke my ankle, now I steal rods in my ankle. So it just, that's always there to remind me if I get a twinge in my ankle, why it's there too, so I always get these little reminders all the time.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Yeah. So tell us a little bit about where you're at. Today, Dawn, thank you for sharing Justin with us. It's been so amazing, but tell us where you are today and also tell us any advice that you have for siblings that are listening that have lost a sibling by suicide. I'm, I really would love for you to share

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Well, right now I'm actually back in school. I'm working on my master's for accounting. I actually work with my stepfather. He's a CPA and he owns his own private firm. And my stepbrother, he's certified now too. So we're trying to help him, get into [00:47:00] retirement and I should be certified in a couple of years or so.

So I'm working on that right now. And yeah, just getting my life together from where I was, which is really good. And my kids are older and all grown up, so now I can really now concentrate on myself, which like, IS. Said back then I wasn't putting myself first. I'm going to the gym.

I'm taking time to take care of myself. And I think you know anyone, any advice I could give is just to be open and honest, and not to be afraid to talk about what has happened, whether it's suicide or illness. Just talk. Just find your people.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Yeah. I just love that. I feel like this episode is really based on not just losing a sibling by suicide, but finding your people, finding your community. I love that message. I think it's so. So important. Dawn, where are you comfortable with people reaching out to you? Email, social media, what's best for you?

If you wanna call it out, and we'll put it in the [00:48:00] show notes.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Oh yeah, sure. So, I'm on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, just under my name, Dawn Spina. If you Google it I'll pop up. But my email is mfw bookkeeper@aol.com if anyone wants to reach out.

SS8, Ep 7- Dawn: Perfect. We'll put it in the show notes and I think your episode will really resonate with so many people especially those folks that have lost a brother or sister by suicide. It's such a deep and tragic loss and I really appreciate you sharing your family and Justin with us today. And thanks for being here.

SS8, Ep 7 Dawn View: Oh, I appreciate it and thank you so much for this opportunity.

Thank you so much for listening to the Surviving Siblings Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode as much as I did creating it for you, then share it on your chosen social media platform. And don't forget to tag us at [00:49:00] Surviving Siblings Podcast so that more surviving siblings can find us. Remember to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast.

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