LeeAnn Loses Michael To Addiction

LeAnn Loses Michael To Addiction-Podcast
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[00:00:00] Welcome to the Surviving Siblings Podcast. I'm your host Maya ler. As a surviving sibling myself, I. I knew that I wanted to share my story, my brother's story. I lost my brother to a homicide in November, 2016, and after going through this experience, I knew that I wanted to share my story and his story, and now it's your turn to share your stories.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Today I have two incredible women with me. I have Leanne Sullivan with me who's gonna be sharing her story, but I also have Christine Rizzo, who is the executive director for, let me make sure I get this whole name in here, the Peggy and Paul Chevlin Family Foundation.

So welcome ladies to the show. Excited to have you here.[00:01:00] 

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: Thank you

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah, my pleasure. My pleasure. So we're gonna connect a little bit later with Christine, but first we're gonna dive in to Leanne's story. So, Leanne lost her brother, Michael. So Leanne, before we talk about the loss, tell us a little bit about you, Michael, your family dynamic, how it was growing up, so we can kind of understand your relationship.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: so. We have the same parents parents, and my parents divorced when I was four. My mom, she had an addiction problem, so my dad took us and we lived with him. I always felt like my brother's protector. So my dad, he was, you know, he was in his twenties. He was young with two kids, so we stayed with his mom.

And then my dad got remarried to a woman and she [00:02:00] had three kids. So at six, me and my brother lived with them, and it didn't go great because it was like five kids blended in a small three bedroom house. And it was hard. We didn't, you know, we didn't get along with the kids weren't that nice and the lady wasn't that nice.

I don't judge them. I don't know what they.

My dad couldn't handle it. And he sent me to my aunt's house, who was my mom's sister when I was six. So basically at that point, I didn't really get to see my dad and brother for like 10 years. And I grew up with my aunt. I tried to, we tried to have a relationship. But like one day when we were younger, when I was younger, my family took me to see my brother.

I brought them Christmas presents. I mean, I was a kid. I was probably eight. And you know, the woman didn't like that we didn't get her kids something for Christmas. So she didn't give my brother anything. And then [00:03:00] me and my, we didn't talk for probably 10 years until I was 16. I was so when 16 I became pregnant and that's when I ended up moving back with my dad, who recently just got divorced from her.

So it was me, my dad, and my brother, and a two bedroom apartment. And then, you know, me and my brother, you know, we were really close then. And yeah, we were really close, but my dad worked a lot. He was always working and my brother was unsupervised, so he got into things that, you know, that's when he got into his addiction.

And there was an epidemic at that time that hit this community really hard. So yeah, my dad was working, my brother was doing his thing. I had a little baby and it was chaotic. And then my dad, he ended up remarrying again. So when I was 21, I ended up buying a house and then my brother came with [00:04:00] me and I felt like more like his keeper, he in with me.

We helped each other out. My son

relationship. 

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah. Wow that's an intense background. Yeah. You had a lot going on. But I think that's really cool that you guys came together and your child was probably really connected to your brother because you guys were living together. that's, yeah, that's an intense situation for sure.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: yes, he definitely stepped into, he was that even though he had his own problems he was, he had a big heart. He was like a big kid. And he did help me with my son, you know, he helped me discipline him and he was like, you know, he was that male role model in his life. Yeah, so it was my son.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah, [00:05:00] course.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: Yeah.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: So take us to 2016.

Leanne, take us to 2016. This is unfortunately when you lost Michael, right? What was life like for you then? Were you guys still living together or what was the dynamic then?

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: Oh, I also have a sister, she's nine years younger, but she she had a different father and she grew up with my mom's other sister. And me and my brother always knew about my mom's addiction. And I loved my mom. I loved my mom. There's no judgment there. I understood, you know, I understood. So we knew, but they never told my sister.

They lied to my sister until she was 18, and we were resentful for that. And then when my sister was 18 she was like a straight A student, but once she found out, she kind of, you know, she was drinking all the time and she kind of lost her way. But she's, you know, she's good now. But their relationship was kind of strained.

But I know my brother, all, he wanted, like what was important to him was family. [00:06:00] So my brother he was with he met a girl and she was younger and they had two babies and he ended up, so the two years before he died, he ended up living, that's when he had the babies and he was living with the girlfriend at her mom's house.

And my brother was working full-time five days a week. He was like a way better parent than me, like structured discipline involved. He worked five days a week and he bought them, he bought a.

The house was walkable to my house. So they would walk over there, they would walk the lawnmower over there. You know, and we helped each other out with the kids and everything like that. If he needed help, I was there. If I needed help, he was there. So, you know, everything was going great. And we were just at his second son's I think it was his birthday party at [00:07:00] the new house, you know, like right before he passed away.

So in our minds, everything was great. But you know, right before he passed, my brother confided in my aunt that my sister lived with that, you know, things weren't going great at home. With his girlfriend at the time, she was young, so I don't blame her. But there was a lot, there was a lot going on and he didn't know what to do.

And you know, my dad offered for him to like stay there and, you know, with the kids. And I offered to help. My aunt offered to help. My brother, you know, he didn't wanna eat, he didn't wanna be separated from his kids, and that's what he was scared of. And the night before he died, he called me and he was like, things are going great.

Like, you know, like they're working everything out. Like I didn't have to worry. So things were good. So it was, so the next day that was a Thursday night. So the next day I went to work, I was an accountant at the time. I just got a promotion. I was in a new [00:08:00] role. And after work I went to pick up my son.

He was at my aunts, I forget why, but I went to pick him up. And my brother's girlfriend's mom was calling and I didn't think, I didn't know. I was like, I'll call her back. And then and then we leaving. She kept calling and I knew something was wrong.

I was like, well, if I don't answer or if I don't call, then I don't have to deal with it.

But my son's like, no, just, you know, so I call, I, you know, I answered when she called again and she said, you know, Michael's dead. And I was, yeah, I.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: The call, it's the call Leanne, right? That we all either make or get or some kind of mix of that. As we all know, we're all nodding because we know it's, you know, it's the first episode of this show is called The Call and I, when I did that, I was like, I just got stuck with [00:09:00] me. You know that call, you never forget that call and I so many of you guys who listen. Remember your call, like you remember it, making it or giving it so you know, or you know, getting it so you know, whatever that was for you. So yeah, I'm sure you have never forgotten hearing that. Yeah.

So what did she tell you on that call? She told you that he had passed, but did he she tell you any details or was that just what happened?

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: no, I think she he Uber heduc and they tried to revive him with the Narcan two times, and I think at that time they already taken him away, so I couldn't, you know, I couldn't go right there but I heard it, but I didn't accept it, you know, like it wasn't really yet. So, yeah, so I went home.

My dad flew down. I don't remember if I called him or not. He said that Mary Beth called him and, and then we ended up driving to my aunt's a few minutes away. She's like the matriarch of the family, and that's where my sister [00:10:00] lives. So we were all there. And I, that was the first time in my life that I ever felt like physical pain from something.

I've never felt that before. I don't ever wanna feel that again. I, it was just, yeah, I couldn't stop crying. I didn't wanna believe it. I was hoping it wasn't true. I was hoping he would come back or he'd wake up or this would, this just not real. But I think after that it kind of just was, went numb for the week and just went through the motions to be there for my dad because it was just me and my dad, you know, and his wife.

But I felt like, you know, I just had to be there for him. And we did the, you know, went to the funeral home and did all the arrangements together and you know, just got through it that week.

The Chevlin Family Foundation is a Delaware County community-based nonprofit organization whose mission is to lift individuals, families, and communities affected by substance use disorder with support, education, and [00:11:00] empowerment, they deserve to champion their own recovery journey. We envision a future where every person affected by substance use disorder is supported and empowered to thrive on their own personal journey of freedom, fulfillment, and sustained recovery.

Please visit us@chevlinfamilyfoundation.org for more information and programs to support you and your loved ones.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah, I mean it's, yeah, it's such a wild time, you know, after you get such a shocking call and shocking loss and then you've gotta do all of these things. I think it's so interesting as I've been having people like you on the show, Leanne, and sharing their journeys and, you know, it's something that I reflected upon later and I was like, God, we're.

Expected to do so much after a loss. You know, it's like we have to, it's why a lot of us have prolonged grief or like we grieve later because it's like, oh my gosh, like [00:12:00] we have to have family in and we have to take care of funeral arrangements or a celebration of life, or, you know, if we're burying them or cremating that, like all these decisions when you're in such a fragile state, it's fascinating to really think about that.

And when I hear stories like yours and your loss journey, I mean, it's, you're just kind of going through the motions, but yet you're having to do all of these things and make these decisions. And then you mentioned something that comes up so much with sibling loss. We have to be there for our parents.

Right? And you being there for your dad

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: Yeah.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: falls to us. It's a big responsibility.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: Yeah. I remember at the funeral it was, I wish they would've done the cremation, but it was an open casket. So I just remember like, I used to like torture my brother like, funny joking, like in a joking way. And my dad would like, I dunno, like just jokes him, try to get him up. Like we just hoping he would get up.

Still wasn't even.[00:13:00] 

You know, that was draining in itself that whole day. Like I just, going home after that, I was just completely drained. Yeah. But

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: I think it's a weird, it's a weird thing when you know the funeral is done or the celebration of life is done, or whatever you choose to do as a family, then you have to back home. And then it's like, what next? Like the world is still spinning. Middle life is still happening, but it's not for me anymore, and that's really difficult.

I.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: yes yeah, because I identified I was a workaholic and like work was my entire life and climbing that corporate ladder, you know, that was my, that's all I cared about at the time because I did have a kid at a child at 17. So I never wanted to be a statistic. I never wanted to be someone that relied on assistance.

I just want to show people like I can do it so my kids, I can do it. You could do it too. You just have to work for it, [00:14:00] you know? You're still showing people.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: I love that, Christine. Yes, she definitely is. I can tell that already for sure. Just the short time I've known you, Leanne. Yeah. But I think I, I identify as a workaholic too, Leanne. And like I should have known we would hit it off right away because of that. And so it, when you lose someone, like we've both lost brothers in the same year, which of course we connect on, but when you lose someone like your brother, that's so significant in your life.

And like work has been so important. And then it becomes such a difficult time. And it's like all you wanna do is throw yourself back into work, but you really can't. 'cause you've gotta slow down to do all of these things like the funeral and like, and by the way, take care of yourself and like allow yourself to grieve.

And for me, it was one of the first times where I was like, you know what, maybe I need, like, I went back to work, which I'm curious what you were doing, which I'm gonna get into that in a second. But like, I went back to work and then my boss at the time, which I think I shared this on the [00:15:00] show, I was like, she was like, go home.

Like this is, and it did help me reevaluate and it did kind of helped me spin off into entrepreneurship, which I'm, you know. These are the gifts we do get out of grief, you know, and loss. But wish we didn't have to get 'em that way. But they happen. Right? They happen. What was that like for you as someone who identifies as a workaholic too?

Like did you go back to work right away? Or what did life look like for you?

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: So I did get back to work right away the week, you know, that following week because you only get a week off. And I,

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: lucky.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: yeah,

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: you're lucky, right? Lucky air quotes. Yeah.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: I went back and it was a new role, so it was a new boss, you know, it was promotion. I was only in that role for like three and

every of. I didn't ask to go away because I was in a new role. It was yearend close and my [00:16:00] family said that they would, you know, they would take my kids and the shore only, it's an hour away. So like, I could come back and forth. So I wasn't planning on taking the entire week off, but when my brother passed I was like, I need that week.

I need to be with my family. So I think I asked them that before I went back. So, my first day back to work, as soon as I went in, they called me into an office and reprimanded me for wanting to take off that week. That was, and that's, that was my experience. The people, the, you know, the people in that department, they were, you know, they were fresh outta college.

They were all young. They haven't faced adversity yet, so they had no idea what I was going through. And they also didn't know who I was the worker before. So that was hard. And I was grateful to be at work, to be distracted, right? Because I do like, I did like my job. But you know, I would just start crying outta [00:17:00] nowhere.

And and I, you know, ended up gonna, the doctor and I got on antidepressants and then I got on anxiety medicine and they gave me Adderall. I was on all types of medicine trying to like, just get through it. But I, you know, struggling with work, struggling to get there on time. And then my son, my older son, he was going into a senior year in high school, so I had to be there and was struggling.

And so I, while at work, there wasn't lot support around at.

Like, and he was 17, so there's not, at that time, there's not a lot of places that teenagers could go to. Fortunately I did have a job with grade insurance and he was able, I was able to get him into a place so you know how to deal with that at work, so that took away from it. So, and then I would be at work and I just felt more like a [00:18:00] calling to serve and help people.

I, there was a group called AIM and I would watch them. They were helping people in Kensington. They were the only group around I knew at the time, and I just felt like that's all I wanted to do. I didn't wanna work anymore. I wanted to help people. But eventually, you know, I did get my son into rehab and then, you know, my family kind of, all my relationships fell apart.

I blame my dad, you know, we didn't talk through I should have done that, but it was anger. So, you know, we didn't talk for a few years. I blame him for my.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: So because of the loss and all the pain you were feeling and the anger, which I deeply connect with feeling anger, I always, when people talk about, or they share with me and they'll say, well, I'm really feeling this, or I'm really feeling that. I'm like, oh, that's kind of your drug of choice with grief.

And they're like, what do you mean by that? I'm like, look, my drug of choice with grief was anger. Like I just kind of stayed [00:19:00] in anger and I feel like a lot of us. Kind of find ourselves getting stuck in something like along our journey. And some of us might not experience all, you know, the stages of grief.

We could do a whole episode on that. Right? But they're not linear. You don't experience every single one. You might, but it's unlikely. You know, for me it was anger. So I so connect with you on that Leanne. But also what I find with anger is that we'll often push people away. 'cause I mean, as you guys know my story, I've pushed my entire family away.

And in some ways, you know, I regretted it. I shouldn't have pushed some of them away for as long. And some of them, it was healthy. So I connect with what you're saying about your dad because, you know, that's what happens when you're angry as you can push people away or, you know, displace kind of blame and things like that.

So I appreciate you sharing that. So. Openly with us. And you feel like your son, I wanna talk about your son for a second. He must have taken this loss so difficult because, I mean, your brother was around very much in your life, a [00:20:00] patriarchal figure for your son. So do you feel like that impacted him in a sense where he was going down this path of addiction and using, or what did that look like?

And it also has been a theme in your family, which you know, we talk about when we talk about addiction. So I see that potentially in the story, but also the loss for him must have been great as well.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: Yeah, so he, so my son he wasn't perfect before then, but he, you know, just did what at the time, what normal high schoolers would do, right. With the drinking or whatever. But I never saw it. But one day I saw him, he, and he was high and it was on Xanax, and that scared the. So my family, we, I, we pulled together and I had, you know, I, I would love to see him graduate high school.

It was a senior year, but his life was way more important, so I didn't care. So, my, my family did support me and we had an intervention and he went, so that was [00:21:00] supportive. But after those 30 days, he had to go to, it was a recovery house and they cost money. And I was a single mom and I had a mortgage.

And in my family it was only, it was 2000 a month. And my family, my aunt and uncle who they paid the first like two months, and my son, he, like, he had them thinking he good gonna, and everything.

I didn't talk to them for a while after that. I felt so betrayed. Like why couldn't they just, why couldn't they just do that? Like, I knew he needed that. And I don't blame them. They don't, you know, but that definitely put a wedge and they were the closest people to me in my entire life. So that was really hard.

Yeah.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah. Well, I think it's interesting how these are like the secondary losses and the [00:22:00] secondary things that happen as a result of a major family loss, like your brother, right? And so I appreciate you sharing so openly about that because a lot of our, a lot of you guys listening ask about what happens with kids, right?

And so I appreciate you sharing that because that's a big question that comes up. And so when folks come on and they have children and they knew your sibling, right? Like that's a whole dynamic that comes up a lot. And, you know, I don't have children and my brother wasn't alive when my, you know, nephews were alive.

And so like, we didn't have that dynamic. So I always appreciate when you guys come on and you share openly because it does affect the children, right? When they've had those relationships and they see mom or dad, depending on, you know, who's had the loss. It's a lot. It's a lot. And it ripples throughout the family.

Leanne, I wanna go back and then go forward to your healing. I wanna talk a little bit about Michael, because what's interesting to me about your story is that the night before this happened, he was feeling very hopeful. [00:23:00] This is a story we've heard before too, right? And this can happen. He was feeling hopeful.

He was feeling optimistic. You were feeling good as his sister, right? About that conversation. So tell us, were you totally caught off guard by this? Like, and had you thought he had been clean from using or like where did your mind go with all of that? Did you discover that maybe he hadn't been clean for a while?

I think there's so many questions that would come up for me because I didn't lose my brother the same way, but my brother battled addiction too. I don't know if you knew that. So, his whole life. And so that's the call I always thought I was gonna get. And I think I did share that with you Christine and Leanne when we had chatted the other day. then I got a different call. But for me, I was always trying to gauge if my brother was clean or if he had been using and there were, you know, like, you guys know this better than me. There's a lot of peaks and valleys in, in the journey where sometimes they're doing really well and they're not using.

And then sometimes you take one [00:24:00] look or have one phone call and you're like, this has gone off the deep end again. That was my personal experience. So I'm just kind of curiously and if you could kind of share with us, like, 'cause that's such a shift and so surprising, right? To get that call after that.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: It was a shock because he was clean for five years, to my knowledge. Well, I thought he was and we were together a lot because you know, it like he was at my son's baseball games and we had, you know, his birthday parties and communion.

We were together all the time doing family stuff. And he just bought a house and he worked all the time and he was really such a good dad. So it, it was really shocking. It was. But when I did talk to him that night, he said everything was going good. Everything was going great. And he I was taking at the time, prescribed, and his [00:25:00] girlfriend was too, and he asked if I, you know, if she could have one tomorrow, whatever.

So I thought that's really why they were, I thought that's why they were calling the next day. And I'm like, I'm not dealing with this right now. So, to be honest, that's really what happened. And then when the calling, it kept calling, I was like, uhoh, like, something's wrong. So it really was a shock. But looking back, and I think maybe at the one birthday party, his eyes were a little, you know, or whatever, but, to me it was a shock. I wasn't expecting that. Like I, I'm waiting for a call from my older son. I wasn't waiting for that call with him.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah,

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: Yeah,

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: so, so what did they find in his system? Was it Adderall? Was it

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: fentanyl.

It was Fentanyl. Yeah.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Wow. is such an epidemic, and we've talked about it on the show before and there's it's heartbreaking. It's absolutely heartbreaking. And 2016 was kind of when it was [00:26:00] kind of first kicking off.

Like, now it's everywhere. But like, that's a very, I mean, when we look at this epidemic of fentanyl, that's an early story. Like it, it wasn't really being talked about like it is now. Like now we're very aware of it, but we weren't then.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: Was big stigma. I mean, there still is, but especially then, you know.

Even though so many were losing their lives it's still a big stigma. You know? It's embarrassing.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Did you find yourself after you lost Michael, did you find yourself kind of not wanting to share the details about the loss and how it happened? 'cause that's a common theme, especially around that time. Right. I feel like, I think you guys, you know, who lo lose siblings to addiction and specifically, you know, for heroin, fentanyl, different, these, some of these really hard drugs. You know, I think you're right. I think there's still stigma around it. I think it's getting better and that's why I enjoy telling these stories because we don't, there doesn't need to be a stigma [00:27:00] around it. Addiction is a disease. It is as something that we live with. It's, we're gonna get into that. I know you ladies have so much to share around this, but like, I remember feeling very shameful with my brother.

Like I didn't wanna tell people. And even when he died, there was a lot of people that were like, was it drugs? Was it this, was it that? And so there was some responses with me where I was like, no, by the way, it was this instead. Don't you feel bad for asking now? But like. There's a lot of that. Did you go through that too?

Leanne? Like after losing your brother, like where you kind of didn't wanna share and be as open, because obviously you're in a different place now you're sharing it on our show, so, yeah.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: It wasn't more I didn't wanna share because I was embarrassed of it at that time, but more, I didn't want them to think of him as, oh, he's just antic. He died because of that. Because he was so much than that. You know, he was a great father, he a great person. He had a big heart. He was funny. He was just, he was amazing.

It's always the good ones, you know. So, you know, a lot of his friends are already [00:28:00] passed, but that was the reason why I didn't want to, because I didn't want them to sum him up, as, you know, label him because he was much more than.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah. I totally understand that. Yeah. And so we get to talk about 'em today, which is great. So tell us a little bit about your healing journey, because it's been, it's coming up on nine years for you, which I, I say that and we're the same year, so I'm just like, this is wild. It's been nine years. Tell us a little bit about your healing journey, because you were dealing with a lot, the loss of your brother, you were helping your son, you had, you know, you were not speaking to your dad.

Like, there was just so much going on I, again, connect with anger. So tell me, how did you go, like where did you go, where did you turn to? And I know we're gonna talk about the foundation 'cause this is integral in your healing journey. So tell us what that was like and how you started to find resources and help feelings.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: So, so I worked, you know, from june thousand [00:29:00] 16 to January, 2018, and during that time it was stressful. I would drive into work. And I would think about driving off a bridge or I just didn't wanna live anymore. But I did have my kids so that if I didn't, I probably, who knows? But I just didn't wanna anymore.

I just didn't care. I didn't wanna work. One day I was driving to work and I don't wanna do this anymore. Please, like, help me. And I go into work and it was like January 18, and I'm going in and I'm, they called me in for a meeting and I'm thinking they're gonna tell me I'm doing something good. I really did.

They let me go and I'm so happy I gave him a hug.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Oh my

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: I said, thank you so much. Because I was just so grateful to be, you know, so, you know, I lost insurance. I got off the medication, I, and I started. I got into network marketing and [00:30:00] even though I pushed everyone away in that space, it's not about sales, but it's a lot of positive mindset.

A lot of self-help. That's, and you know, I connected with all these people online in my own little world and I started working out every day, like taking care of myself. And and that really helped me get out of it. And, you know, I was unemployed for a year and I was like, oh, what am I gonna do? So I ended up getting into real estate and when I, you know, I got my license and I got started and I got on my feet.

There was a guy that I met there and I knew that he was in recovery. And for some reason I said hey, I was thinking about doing this fundraiser, it's called Bowl for Hope, because, you know, I lost my brother and me and my dad and my brother used to go bowling a lot that. He's like, that's not a stupid idea.

I'm like, yeah, I wanna do it, but I don't wanna like handle the money. Like, I just, you know, and then he's like, lemme introduce you to someone. [00:31:00] And then that's how I met Christine. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly how it happened. Yeah. It was crazy. Yeah. But I remember her walking into the office that day and Tim at the time who said, oh, I'm gonna bring in Leanne and happened from time to time.

Well, she walked in, she's like this ball of energy and she's like, and you sat right next to me. It was like this at my desk. And you were like, listen, I doing nothing. You, somebody needs do something.

That started our relationship. It was right before COVID. It was, no, it was in 2019. And in 2020 we planned the bowl for hope. Yeah. Is your idea. It's actually tomorrow. Yeah. 

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: What perfect timing that we're on here talking about this. I love it. Okay.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: a local bowling alley. Yeah. But and you didn't tell me a lot of details about Michael. [00:32:00] Yeah. Leanne rarely puts the light on herself, which is why I'm so proud of her sharing her story with your audience. She rarely tells really, the small miracles that happened in her own life. And for that, I'm just like.

Just her can do attitude. She's like, other people wanna do things too. She now sits on our executive board. She's been instrumental in us raising money when it's really hard. I hate to say it, to raise money in this space. So she's, we've learned from each other and really motivated one another.

We've done a couple of different events. Yeah. And anyway that's how we met and I'm very grateful for that. Yeah. I'm very grateful. Oh yeah. I didn't wanna let that the drugs went or the disease win and I, you know, had to do something. And that was the only way that I could think of. And [00:33:00] I'm just grateful to have you to help that.

And I also didn't want, I, if I could help other families not go through the pain that like my family went through and kind of apart, now me and my dad, we have the best relationship ever. He's like my best friend. We could, I bring him on all the vacations. We have Sunday dinners every week. Like we have such a beautiful relationship now and I'm so grateful for that.

And but yeah, but it.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: there was a lot of heartache on the way. Right, and that's. You know, that's the point of talking about this because I think there's a lot of learning that, you know, all of you who are listening can take from this wherever you are in your journey. If you have a sibling that is still alive, but it feels like a loss because they're battling addiction, or if you've recently lost a sibling to addiction and it is tearing your family apart because it can,, it can do it on both sides of the loss and hopefully you'd ever have to get to the side of the loss.

Right. So I really appreciate you sharing this so openly [00:34:00] because I connect with that personally. And there are, it does tear a family apart and it can create kind of teams and sides and, you know, people who are thinking, you know, personally, I went through that too with my brother, where like my dad wanted one thing, my mom wanted another thing.

My dad wanted him to go in rehab and get help. My mom was like, no, let's keep him at home. And I was. Caught in the middle and angry at both of them. 'cause I didn't feel like either one of them were handling it the right way. I felt like one was more enabling, one was enabling in other ways,

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: all of that was probably true at the time for you. In other words, your parents were acting in what they thought, you know, was the best interest of your brother. Many times for us, we'll see family members get involved because they know they can't control their loved one who's in addiction. And they've learned that maybe the hard way, right, through enabling or going into counseling or being part of groups.

So many times families will just come and get [00:35:00] connected with us. 'cause they're like, at least I can do this. I can't help my son or my daughter, but I can help the people that want the help right now. Which is critical. Yeah. You know, that ends up being a path of healing. Whether you're loved one is in active addiction or has,

it can actually be a real healing.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Well, it was for you, Leanne, because you know, unfortunately lost Michael, but you going and chatting with this guy and then you get connected to Christine, you were like, I want to do something like I love. We loved bowling. This is something that reminds me of being a, like, this is happy times in your family, right?

So I wanna do that, and I think it is such a beautiful thing, and we hear so much from you guys who listen, that you wanna do something to honor your sibling, or you wanna do something to give back to the community that is struggling, whatever, in whatever way you lost your sibling. Of course, today we're talking about addiction, and I [00:36:00] think that's wonderful, and I think it can be really fulfilling.

To your point, Christine, on the healing journey wherever you are, you know, if that sibling or loved one is a strange because they're an active addiction, or if unfortunately you have lost them giving back to the community and helping others, it's so healing. I can speak from experience on that.

It's so helpful on your healing journey. I mean, Leanne, once you got involved in the community, and then I wanna make sure we talk about the foundation, Christine, but Leanne, when you got involved and you put together this event with this incredible group. that a turning point in your healing journey for you?

How did that feel for you?

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: It helped me turn pain into purpose and it helped me find my people because no one else could, no one else could relate to any of this or new, you know, I had my family, they're just, I love them, they're dysfunctional, you know? I didn't really have anybody that could relate to anything. So, to meet Christine and then all, like, not just her, but the community I dunno how [00:37:00] to describe it, but every time you're around, like you're together, you just, it just feels good.

And I really feel like volunteering and serving really does, it really does help heal. And that's what, yeah. And then you're helping other people, so helping yourself at the same time. Right. While you're helping other people, you know, it becomes this great gift. And one of the things I've been happy to witness is how her youngest son, Anton now, like he sees his mom do that.

Yeah. And now he comes to the events and he helps. Like we're raising generations of givers, you know, and not to give for give's sake, but to give, because pouring yourself out in service makes a difference and many times doesn't cost a lot. Yeah. You know what I mean? Donating an hour here or there, coming up with an idea and seeing it through, it's well, it's a gift to us, but but I know that it really impacts our community.

When you [00:38:00] have someone like Leanne who's dedicated and wants to make a difference, that's, I mean, my, that's what you're doing. Yeah, exactly. For the people in this community. Because I mean, there a space for, there isn't a space for that right now, so. Because.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah, I mean it You my pleasure. And it has been wonderful. You know, it's interesting because I wanted to see if that was a turning point for you, and it's definitely sounds like it, Leanne. I mean, it's such a beautiful relationship that the two of you have in the community, and it was for me too, because I didn't tell my story as I tell on the show.

It took me five years for many reasons. Right. Legal, emotional, all these different. But, you know, when I finally did it, a lot of my friends were like, was it cathartic? Was it like, great, like how did it feel? And I'm like, there's not one word to describe it, but I remembered finally sitting with a girlfriend that I really trusted and she was like how has [00:39:00] this been for you?

Like, you know, telling this and doing this and like, you know, all this interest and I. The only way I knew how to describe it, I was like, is it's like I've been carrying around all this luggage on my own. one to help me, no one to check my bag, and at the airport, no one to. And she was like listening to my analogy and she's like, and I said, and then finally I told the story and I started connecting with people who actually understood what I have gone through.

And it's like I got to set it down for a little bit. She was like, whoa, I really get that. And I was like, I've never said that or thought that. It just is what came out of me. 'cause I felt so comfortable with her. 'cause she had been through significant loss too. And there's beauty that happens when you're exchanging with people who really get you.

And I see that between the two of you too. And I think that's really great. Yeah. It's it's so healing to be around people who understand what you're going through and to be able to help them and it's I think it's so important. So tell us a little more about the actual foundation. Because Christine, you are the [00:40:00] executive director, but this is your family's foundation.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: Right. My parents, Peggy and Paul, they back in 20 so we'll be 10 years old actually this fall in October. So that's, which I can't believe.

So they wanted to make a difference in the community. The oldest of seven. And I connect with you on that level, being the oldest and the roles that we've had in our families.

I have three brothers that have struggled with addiction and I like to say there's those that are afflicted and then those that are affected. My, my three, I have five brothers altogether, three of them struggled at different points in their life. All different drug of choice, very different recovery journeys.

But my parents were able to help them, support them get them into recovery, housing, et cetera. And they were just very concerned about those who were financially vulnerable. So, what happens to the [00:41:00] people that come out of treatment and have nowhere to go, or more importantly, have no family support and many times for good reasons, right?

You know, attract together, get back into treatment when you're clean a year, call me back. So that's how the foundation started. Right now, the foundation has really two pillars. First of all, we say that our mission is all about lifting people. So it's lifting individuals, families, and communities. We wanna give them the support they need.

Them resources, either ourselves or connect them to them and then really empower them to heal because it's all about recovery. Whether you are with the disease of addiction or you're affected by it. So families and individuals, and then building that community. The early recovery folks, they've spent 30 days in treatment.

They're coming out, they have no money, no family, no [00:42:00] resources. We step in and we bridge the gap. We'll help with housing, scholarships to recovery. Homes that we work with, that we know that we trust. We have shelf stable and fresh food that they can have during those really vulnerable weeks coming outta treatment.

Clothing, replacing IDs. You think this is a little thing, but if you don't have an id, you can't sign up for food stamps. You can't get a job, so, and no one else pays for that. If you don't have the money, it's a big obstacle. And then hygiene items. Hygiene items. You would think for guys, is this a big deal?

It's a big deal. So we have a hygiene and a food closet we serve in person on Wednesdays, and we hope to extend that. And then the other part, the other pillar is taking care of families, walking with them when their loved ones won't get the attention that they need, the medical attention helping them make better decisions connecting them with [00:43:00] resources so that they're not enabling or they're figuring out how to love their loved one, rightly is what I say, because everyone is different.

And then walking with bereaved families. So, it was actually Leanne's idea many years ago to have a Mother's Day brunch.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: I love it.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: Moms lost their son or daughter to addiction. And I kept saying, Leanne, like, there's two of us. How are we ever gonna do this? And then she called me this two years ago, we are doing the lunch in the show.

I was like, okay, if Leanne thinks we can do it, we can do it. Yeah. And we're actually gonna have our third luncheon, this many

that's built community. It's put mothers and sisters. Yeah. Right. You and other females in your family have come and it's this little sub-community that gets this care and love and concern from us.

And it's not really a fundraiser, but I can't express how deeply just [00:44:00] connecting these women has become, well, you know, because you are doing this on a much bigger scale and the connections that we've made with them, it's beautiful. Best life again because.

Know what I mean? There's this power that's there in community now.

I lost a brother just a couple months ago and I've had addiction in my family for many years, so I'm going gonna, you know, understand a little bit better and different this year. But even before this year I saw what happened at the tables and the love that was shared and the tears, but I also saw the laughs.

I saw the ideas, right? There was a woman that was working in Kensington. There was another woman who was networking in recovery homes and sharing, you know, her journey with her son that she lost. I was like, there is magic happening in this room. And and Leanne was really the start of that. You know, you plant the little seed and when it's [00:45:00] the right community and you get each other and then others join in on that, really good things happen.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: It's gonna grow and bloom right after you plant it, and then it's gonna grow and bloom. I love that. I think that is so special, and I love that you guys are gonna do that again and continue to do it. Sounds like after the pandemic you were able to kind of start this and now it's gonna continue on. But I imagine it's so healing because like you said, Christine, like, you know, you're hearing about how they're getting involved in the community, even outside of maybe what you guys are doing and giving back.

But also, you know, I just, of course my, my empathetic heart thinks right away I'm like, yes, these mothers that maybe they lost their only child, or maybe they have difficulty on Mother's Day because maybe they have surviving children, but it's a difficult thing. So maybe

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: Lost two children.

Multiple children, right?

Warriors. We have an overdose awareness walk in August on overdose awareness day. And that again, through another person in our community who got to [00:46:00] meet Leanne and met with me, like now they've asked us to take over that walk. So we go to that now.

And those numbers have grown. And again, these aren't people that were talking to every day, but they're like, you're saying my son's name out loud once a year. And what dignity there is in that, in, in hearing that name, do you remember what happened last year? We said at the end, and we have all different people say the names out loud.

And I got up at the very end and I said, is there anyone else's name that hasn't been said out loud? I have goosebumps right now. Yeah. And people started screaming out their siblings or their children's name and it, you know what, there's such beauty in that. You are not alone. No one has to be out there suffering on their own with platforms like yours and what we're doing in our community.

People need to heal through togetherness and community. Not isolation, not the [00:47:00] shame that comes from addiction or death in general. Yeah. Right. But the mourning scripture says, you know, there will be dancing, the mourning will be turned into dancing. And although that sounds ridiculous, I've seen that happen in our work with the people that we serve.

Yeah.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah. I love that you mentioned that because recently I was chatting with another gal who, her foundation focuses on homicide. It's a little different, right? But loss is lost. We know this. And she wrote something really long and she was talking about how she feels like some organizations don't look at. The life and the happiness. And I, some people are really confused by what she was saying, but I totally got it because that's our mission here is to dig deep, to look at the pain, to actually, to share it in a raw version and share it openly. But then how do we find hope and how do we laugh again and how do we enjoy life again in that honoring?

And so I [00:48:00] really love that you shared that, Christine, because I got what she was saying. I totally get what you're saying because it does sound silly, especially if someone really newly be briefed. They're like, I can't even get out of bed. What are you talking about? But that is why community is so, so important. And I, whenever I get asked a question from folks, like, if you could go back in time, what would you share with like your earlier self with grief? Community. I was alone. I was alone. And part of that has to do with, you know, pandemic happening. Also me thinking like, oh, no one's gonna understand losing a brother like this.

Nobody's gonna, but there's a reason we think that it's 'cause people aren't talking about it. So that's why it became important for me to talk about it and have folks like you talking about it on this podcast and just the, on all the things we do. Because little did I know there were millions of people out there that could have been connected to me.

I felt alone because we just didn't know. And that's why your work is so important, because that is my number one piece of advice to [00:49:00] people. I'm like, if you want to dramatically help yourself on your healing journey, it's not gonna just put catapult you forward. You gotta feel it, you gotta process it, you gotta work through it. But if you want to help yourself. On this journey and help yourself pick yourself up. Surround yourself with people who understand and are gonna support you, and that's why foundations like yours are so important because that's where you can find the community to

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: Thank you. It so important. I got a call yesterday.

You were connected with our loved one. They died in recovery. It was a sudden death, but they died in recovery for many years. And and that felt weird to me. I was like, oh my gosh. You know, but I went and and I was happy to be there and share stories about this person and the impact he had.

Well, his son called me yesterday I didn't share this with you yet. And he's like, Hey, I'm getting 70 people together to play golf next month and we would love for the proceeds that we raised that day to go to your work.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Oh my gosh.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: Now that was like [00:50:00] so beautiful. He's like, well, I don't wanna just have people Venmo me money.

He is like, no, we wanna raise some money so that you can continue to do the good that you're doing. And we wanna have fun at the same time and honor my dad. So I just thought that was so beautiful. It takes very little work on my end, right? But they're so happy to be connected with us and then we'll hopefully show up at that event support, share more stories, and provide all of the ways for them to write.

We'll put it on our website, we'll do the back office. So we do the easy things from my perspective but it gives them a sense of their dad living on through this fun event and family and neighbors. So it's good everybody.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah, a beautiful gift. And that's a testament to the work that you're doing when reach out or they wanna support you and they wanna support the community. And it also shows like how you've supported them. I think that's, you know, I. That's really important and what an [00:51:00] honor to speak at someone's, I mean, wow, that's like really touching, right? Yeah.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: I was like, I'm not sure I'm gonna be able to do a good job. But I, you know what? I talked about the program at the time. He was a big booker. He was an aa, so, and he was a funny guy. So I was able to connect some stories. We were actually second cousins and although I hadn't seen him in a while, I knew some good stories about him.

So it was an honor and I'm, but I'm glad I didn't back away from it because it would've been easy for me to say no, there's other people because I'm not in recovery. You know what I mean? My brothers struggle with addiction, but I don't, but I didn't, I stepped into it and served them the way they want, they asked me, and it ended up being a good thing outside my comfort.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: I think that's wonderful and yeah, thank you. For sharing more about the foundation, and we're gonna talk about where to find that in just a second. But before we close out Leanne, I wanna thank you for sharing Michael with us and your story and just so [00:52:00] openly about it because you've a lot of things happen in your life.

You're, you were a young mom, you had a lot of family disruption throughout your life. You've overcome so much. And so, I mean, Christine has said some of this already, but like, you should be so proud of yourself. You're such a beautiful person and where you are and what you're doing and what you're giving back to the community.

And I think it's really great. But I wanted to ask you before we talk about where to find both of you and the foundation and, how to connect with you guys, and if you wanna get involved with Christine and Leanne, please do. But Leanne, what did we not cover, or what advice do you have for folks going through something similar to what you've gone through? Feel free to share with us, you know, often times we get advice, you know, if you could go back in time, in your grief journey or, you know, even back when Michael was here, if there's, you know, something that you maybe wish you had said or done, what advice would you give to our incredible listeners who maybe have a sibling in active addiction [00:53:00] or lost a sibling to addiction, or got, you know, fentanyl, all of these experiences that you've had?

I think you're a wealth of knowledge for them.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: You have to take of yourself first. If your family is dysfunctional, you could find there's so many different communities out there. You can go on Facebook. There's so many different things out there. Reach out to somebody because there's gonna be someone who already went through that, that could help you. It's gonna be hard.

Life's hard. It's hard, but you can get through it. And I wish, you know, I wish I maybe didn't numb it. Numb the, and just head on Grace. Give yourself some time and just find a way.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: Yeah, I think that's, yeah. It's so beautiful and so true. And you know, as I mentioned before, too, community is so important when we're, look, we're human beings. We're not meant to be isolated. We're [00:54:00] meant to be connecting with other people. And when we feel like we want to know that someone can connect with us.

But what's interesting about a loss like this losing, losing a loved one, which both of you have lost siblings to addiction, is that it's, you feel alone, but like, you are also like, but I wanna know, other people have gone through this, but I don't wish this on anybody else. Right? So it's this weird dynamic that you get into and kind of in your head where you're like I don't wanna ask other people or reach out because I don't want. else to have felt this or to have experienced this. But the reality is they have. They have. And kind of when I broke that down myself and I opened myself up to more community, it was life changing. So I just so appreciate you sharing that with us. And then I have one actual other question for you two, Leanne and Christine, also, something that comes up a lot with our siblings who listen to the show who've lost a sibling to addiction, to overdose, they blame [00:55:00] themselves a lot. So I'm curious, Leanne and Christine, your advice on this, because this is a big one. So I wanted to make sure I ask this before we closed out and talked about where we can find the foundation in both of you, but. What advice do you have for this? Because this really wrecks people, right? And we're talking about siblings here, but if you've lost anyone right.

To what could I have done or if I had just, if I had just called them, you know, or if I just noticed that maybe they were using again, like if the what ifs, right? Or if I had just had What advice do you have for these incredible listeners on that? Because that's a big one that comes up.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: There, there's nothing that they could have done because, you know, there's nothing that they could have done because whatever's in their mind is they're gonna do what they wanna do because it's their decision. And I don't think that they, you know, it's not like their intention was to maybe, you know, but.

I, you know, I knew I [00:56:00] was there for my brother when, like, when he needed me and there's nothing that I could have done. I didn't know I didn't know. And I think I'm so sorry. And I think the best advice is it's not your fault. It's not your fault. And talk to people. If you feel like that, talk to a doctor.

Go talk to a therapist. Work it out. Just work it out. Until you know, until you're at peace with it. I think in the program, all that is true in the program. They say, you know, you didn't cause it. You can't control it, you can't cure it. And addiction, insidious disease it causes behaviors that are so dangerous to themselves and to others.

And I think we do tend to sit back and say, I should have done something I could have done in the end. You have to love your loved one in a way that helps them be supported and encouraged, and let them know that you love them unconditionally, that you wanna be there for them. [00:57:00] If they're ready to make a change, if they're willing to make a change, and that it doesn't matter.

Anytime, any day you can call me, I can connect you. I love you no matter what. And when you do that, when you live your life that way you realize there's, you can control very little in your life. So love bravely and be there so that people feel comfortable enough to come to you or connect them to resources and and live in the light that your sibling wants you to live in.

Yes. Which is their memory, right? That the good use of your brother was so much more than his addiction. Right. Well, how about me focus on that. That happened. And that's where I think we can really make a difference and let them live through me, through you, through your children, and and even through, right?

Your parents. All of that is possible. Live for them. Live for them, because they're no longer here. That gets [00:58:00] me through it. Like, like, you know, you're here. God has you here for a reason, and just live the best day you can for them because they're here, but you're here in you. How I.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: I could not agree anymore. That was a major shift for. That was a shift for me. That was a shift for me. It took me a couple years though, guys. It took me a couple years and were many factors as to why, but many years. And then there was a shift, it was about four or five years in right before I produced the first season. And I said, I have a huge responsibility. I have to live for him and for me now.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: Right. Yeah.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: it was like something flipped in me and it can happen at any time for you. And it's a gift that I hope a lot of our listeners get out of this episode because I think I had someone tell me the other day, they're like, doesn't that feel like a lot of pressure?

I said, no, it feels like an honor.

So yes ladies, thank [00:59:00] you so much. Okay. Let's talk about where we can connect with you. So as far as the foundation this is gonna be in the show notes and on our website, but tell us if everyone's listening, they can just hear it website and any socials. Tell us where to find it. You guys.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: We're at the Chevlin Family Foundation. That's S-H-E-V-L-I-N family foundation.org. We're outside of Philadelphia. But we'd love to have folks connect with us. We're on Facebook, Chevlin Family Foundation, Instagram, Chev Family Foundation. I'm also at on LinkedIn, Christine Rizzo. But it's been an honor to be here, Maya.

Thank you so much. And Lean. Leanne is a killer real estate agent in our area. So

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: yes. Yes. I, and I love that in the story too, that you kind of shifted and came into your own and now you're this incredible saleswoman, like, I love that you did network marketing and you're in real estate. So tell us where we can connect with you on social or where people can reach out to you, they connect with your story.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--guest280727--leeann-and-christine: I'm on [01:00:00] Facebook. Leanne Sullivan, L-E-E-A-N-N-S-U-L-L-I-E-A-N. I'm Instagram Delcos realtor, which is DL C Os Rlr. They're the two places that they can connect and if you ever wanna talk about anything, please feel free to contact me. I'm always here to talk.

2025-03-21--t06-18-31pm--62d44f94d16e77b66619324b--mayapinion: And this will be in the show notes too. So all you guys need to do is just click below and you can visit the foundation. You can connect with Leanne, connect with Christine. Thank you both for being here. It was a pleasure. 

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