Lori Loses Gina To Breast Cancer

Lori Loses Gina To Breast Cancer- Patreon
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SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Hi guys. Welcome back to the Surviving Siblings Podcast. Today I have Lori with me, and she's going to be sharing about losing her sister. Gina. Lori, welcome to the show.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: Thank you so much for having me and allowing me to share my journey with you today.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Yeah, my, my pleasure Lori. So I definitely wanna dive into you and Gina, tell us a little bit about, let's go back in time. Tell us a little bit about you and Gina, your dynamic family dynamics. Tell us a little bit about you and Gina.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: Okay, so I am the quintessential middle child, Gina is. Or was my older sister and we have a younger brother, Philip, and you could go back and ask them if she were here or him about how it worked in our family. [00:01:00] And pretty much I could say the same thing to my mom that they said, but I would get in trouble for it.

And I always like to say that. Gina, oh, she's so beautiful and smart, and Phil is talented and the baby and Lori. We love Lori. So it's, it's funny and it's always been a joke with the three of us growing up as kind of how it, how it went with us. My sister very passionate about everything and she and I fought like cats and dogs growing up.

We're two years apart. We had a lot of the same friend group once we got a little bit older and then became extremely close until the time she, she died.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Isn't that interesting how we change when we get a little bit older? Right. With a dynamic like that?

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: We still argued a lot as adults. We like to say it's 'cause we're so passionate about everything we do, but she and I were extremely close.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Yeah, I know it. I feel like we don't [00:02:00] love our siblings if we don't fight with 'em. That's what I always tell people. I'm like, that shows our love and we can pick on 'em. We can fight with 'em, but no one else better do it.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: A hundred. A hundred percent correct. Better not, don't say one word bad about them.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that you're the quintessential middle child. I think that's. That's so funny. Yeah, and I totally get that. So tell us a, take us to so for those of you again who are tuning in we lost Gina to breast cancer, and so take us to when this all happened because , it is a journey.

For those of you that have lost a sibling to an anticipatory loss, like breast cancer, like cancer, it's a journey. So take us to that. She was 37 when she was diagnosed, so take us to that time, Lori, and what was that like and what was going on for you guys?

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: So, I'm a nurse and my brother was actually getting married and my sister Gina had. Had been, had remarried. She had two girls and she had just had [00:03:00] a baby, well, 10 months ago. So, I was working three to three at the hospital, which I think is the worst shift ever. And so I would come home and I would pass out sleeping.

And she woke me up one day and I think it was like in July of 2007. And and I'm sure I answered the phone, not happy because I got woken up and she said that she had found this lump. In her armpit. And so I asked all the questions that someone in medicine would ask, like, does it hurt? Can you move it?

Can you do all these things? And she could move it and it hurt. And so I was like, I have to go back to sleep. It's probably mastitis or something else, blah, blah, blah. And I got off the phone with her and I talked to her a couple days later and she said, I made an appointment to go see somebody because, and then she showed me what this lump looked like, and it was.

Truly like a tennis ball in her armpit. So then I was really concerned. So she went to her O-B-G-Y-N who said, I don't know what this is, maybe it's mastitis. And they put her on antibiotics. [00:04:00] And then I think it was about two weeks later, I apologize, I'm not great with dates surrounding this. And it was a couple weeks later and they sent us to see a surgeon who was like, Ooh, I don't love this.

Let's do a biopsy. So, this was now in August of oh seven. So they did the biopsy. My brother got married and like three, three or four days after his wedding, we found out that she did have breast cancer. Then she turned 38 years old. Her birthday's August 29th, and we just started. It was just first of all, like your entire world has just fallen apart.

Like, how can this happen? Why did this happen? Just. We need some answers. So she had a biopsy and it came back that she was triple negative breast cancer, which, 15, 16 years ago was way more difficult to treat and she, it was a stage three B. 

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Would you mind explaining what all of this means? For those of us who are not familiar, [00:05:00] that would be

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: Sure. I'm, I apologize. Absolutely. So, most breast cancers are driven by hormones, so they're hormone receptor positive.

My sister's cancer was hormone receptor negative. So if you see when. Sometimes older women get cancer. They'll treat 'em with like tamoxifen, orally, or surgery. Chemo, and then oral medications for years afterwards because those type of cancers respond to hormone therapy. My sister's type of cancer did not respond to hormone therapy and it wouldn't respond so based on the size of her tumor.

They said that she needed to start chemo first before they would do the tumor removal, so she started having chemo. She truly was a champ, and I do have to say my sister was so passionate about everything she did and loved her kids more than anything. So we would take turns, who was taking to her doctor's appointments, who was taking her to chemo, who was getting this done, and she really was doing extremely well for several months.

So [00:06:00] they actually at that point didn't she was supposed to have, I think, 16 rounds of chemo, and they stopped her at 12 because there were, there was so much improvement in the size of her tumor that they were like, let's take a break. We'll stop the chemo, let's do a bilateral mastectomy and take it from there.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Was this still in 2007 when

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: is still in 2007. They moved really quick, so I think. And I, I apologize. I know some people are so great with these dates, but it, it, you know what, maybe it went into 2008. I, I apologize, but she ended up having a bilateral mastectomy. Maybe it was early 2008. She had, she had surgery, then she had radiation, and she really did, I think, have some really good months.

But when we asked after she had her surgery. Were you able to get clean margins and clean margins means that they got the entire tumor [00:07:00] and even the tissue surrounding it was clean from cancer. And the doctor looked at me like I was crazy, I think because they knew that I was a nurse. And he was like, why is she asking about clean margins?

And he was like, well, it's already metastasized to her lymph node, so she's probably not gonna have clean margins. And then they changed her diagnosis to stage four.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Wow.

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SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: it's very funny because as a nurse I focus [00:09:00] and I keep my brain science focused as well as data. And when you look at the data from 15 years ago, people with triple negative breast cancers, survival rate was not great at all.

And then when we would deal with the oncologist and talk through some really specific. Like cancer genomes and, and patterns. It appears that my family, because my sister did have the BRCA genetic defect for this kind of cancer they said that there's some. or some, I, I can't think of the word that I'm looking for.

Defect. Excuse me. There's some defect that my sister and our family has that actually kills the women in our family. So before my sister my dad's sister, my Aunt Linda, she was diagnosed at 35 and died at 37. However, [00:10:00] when that happened, there was no genetic testing or anything to figure out what it was.

However, they were both treated at the same hospital, so we were able to look at some things and my sister actually chose to be treated by the same oncologist that treated my aunt all of those years ago. So that is how it started and how we found out and the path that, that we were on in early 2008.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Wow. Yeah, so, so she has all of like, she's going through so much, right? All of these things are happening and she. Like you were saying, like you're speaking doctor language. Right. Nurse language. And so, and I think that's great that she had you as an advocate for her. Honestly, because don't you think that that's helpful?

Because I think for me, if I was in that situation, I probably would not know what to ask. Right. Did you find that to be helpful? Did you find the doctors to be receptive to that or what was that like for you?

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: So I did, and I asked a lot of questions and it's [00:11:00] funny that you called me her advocate because I don't feel like I was actually her advocate till way later in her, in her journey with this. And I'll talk about that, that when we get there, I feel like I was always so very stressed. And then she would call me and I would answer the phone and I would be like, what's going on?

And she would say, why do you sound so irritated? And I'm like, I'm not irritated. I'm just so afraid you're gonna tell me something else bad. And so we actually bonded over that where I was like, okay, I promise that I will not jump to conclusions that something's bad has happened when you're calling me.

As long as you don't only call me when things that are bad are happening. But I actually worked at the organization where she was treated at the, at the hospital, and I think that that, that allowed me a lot of leverage with. Having an opinion, being able to go to things that maybe other family members wouldn't be allowed to go to.

And thank you for calling me an advocate early on in her treatment. I don't know that I felt like I was an [00:12:00] advocate for her. So thank you for that. But it, it did, I, surgeons would let me come to this or I would get to stay later, at the hospital to stay with her while she was in the hospital.

So I do think that there were a couple benefits to working there while she was being treated and the benefit of having a medical background.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Yeah, of course. And yes, you were an advocate. I feel like we're really hard on ourselves, and going through that, and I think it's really. Great that you and Gina had such a, a good way of communicating where you could, level that out. Okay. Just let me know, like when you're calling, it's not just for bad stuff, we're gonna call consistently.

I think that's really great and it's a testament to your relationship, but you were an advocate for, for her and I'm excited to hear more about how that evolved for you and because I relate to that for sure. But I think we always feel like we could have done more, right? We've always feel like we could do more, so we don't always see ourselves.

Clearly right in those roles, but of course you were, of course you were an advocate for her. And so, I think it's, IM, I, I like to [00:13:00] recognize those things. Tell us a little bit about, so we're in 2008, it's spread to her lymph nodes. What does that look like ne it's stage four and from what we know now, that's not a good sign.

Right. Stage four. So what happens next? Yeah.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: was, it was not a good sign. None of her doctors. None of them were like hopeless. They all said, we have all of these different things that we can try and we can do this and we can go back and do that. And she went through a couple rounds of different treatment at the academic medical center where I worked and, then it just progressed and then it was in her lungs, and then it was, it, it.

I, I truly feel like she did okay for a while. She, she truly did, I think it metastasized to her lungs in late 2008 but she was still getting treated. The hospital was still very positive and very hopeful. And, I think that might be one of the points where [00:14:00] I transitioned from trying to stop being a nurse to being her sister.

And seeing the emotional side of things and, doing. Maybe some anticipatory grieving where I was bargaining, right? Like, you can take these four relatives of mine if you keep my sister. Or how about me? I'm not married, I don't have kids. She has three kids who really need a mom. Like let me trade places with her.

And so I think it was a weird, or I tried to make this weird balance out of my logical brain and the emotional brain, and I stayed there for a long time where I was just so struggling with. Please let me switch places with her. Please take these five of my relatives. And I know that that sounds terrible to say out loud, but I can't be the only person who's thought that as part of

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: you're bringing this up. Yeah. I'm so glad you're bringing this up because this is something I get asked a lot about in just the different things we do. Right. Events or workshops, things like that, that I, I was chatting with you about before we jumped [00:15:00] into to your story. And it's, it's interesting because I find that a lot of folks that go through the bargaining.

Experience or going through an anticipatory loss like you. So I'm really glad we're talking about this, Lori, and you're sharing about this because this is not something that. I experienced. Right? Because it was done. It was done right. The what? My type of loss and how like there was no, and I'm not saying that folks that go through a sudden or a different type of loss won't go through that.

It just wasn't my highlight experience. Right. I always tell people anger was a big one for me, but I'm so glad, for obvious reasons. Right? But I'm so glad you're sharing about this and it's not weird. All that. You went through that, and I think it's gonna be so helpful for you guys to listen and, and hear about bargaining because it's, you're describing it so well, probably the best I've heard from someone because I think it's important to understand that that's not crazy.

And you were justifying like, I don't have [00:16:00] kids, like take me and not her. Like this is true. Bargaining is what you're describing, and it's a very normal experience, especially for anticipatory losses. So I'm glad you're talking about this.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: Well, thank you. I, it, it's funny 'cause in my head sometimes I think, oh my God, if I told those family members that I was willing to trade them to keep her alive, probably not the best thing to do. But, but truly, I, I was deep into this anticipatory grieving and then trying to balance it out with the science because, and logic, because that's what I know.

And it just, it was a really, I, I spent a long time. The bargaining stages and not great. But, but that's, that's where I did spend a lot of time.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Do you feel like you were in the bargaining stage up, up until she passed? I know I'm jumping ahead just a little bit, but I'm just curious as we're talking about this or when do you think that changed a little bit for you

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: So there, there's a particular story that I wanna tell you where I actually think I changed [00:17:00] from being. The nurse slash sister to her true advocate.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Go for it. Yeah.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: that happened. That happened later, later on. So just to take you there a little bit quicker. At one point, and this might have been early 2009 her cancer kept spreading.

The university Medical Center said, there's nothing more for us to do here. You don't have any more options. And so she de she decided to go with some alternative therapies still in our state just not super close to home. And so she was admitted to this hospital and they started doing high dose vitamin C treatments for her and.

Now if we fast forward to October, November of 2009, she was at I'm just not gonna use the names of those, the places she was at for obvious reasons. However, our family would all show up there and there [00:18:00] was a night that. A majority of the, our childhood friends came to see her and we sat around and we talked and we laughed and went over just all of these great times that we had growing up.

And when we were leaving, it was, it was a hospital, but it was, I, I don't know, hospitals are all white and lit up all the time. We were leaving at about midnight and all I remember in this moment is that we were all walking out and it was, it was. Getting cool outside. And I remember the lobby being so dark and the only real light was this gigantic fish tank.

And one of our childhood friends who I'm extremely close with, turned around and looked at me. And I don't know if it was the look on his face, but I just started sobbing and he hugged me so, so tight. And in that moment I, oh, sorry. I'm gonna get all teary. It was like I lost hope and I knew [00:19:00] that she wasn't gonna live and there was no more bargaining or anything I did wasn't gonna change that.

And I think that was an absolute pinnacle moment for me in like, I'm not the nurse anymore, I'm the sister, but like I need to be her true advocate. And within a couple of days we were at the hospital and I got there and they were giving her blood transfusions and just doing all of these things and this and that.

And this part might be hard for me to get through. I had to have a conversation with her husband and say, who are you doing this for? And this is truly Maya, where I became her advocate.

I'm like, who are you doing this for? Because me standing here as her sister slash nurse slash now advocate you're not doing this for her.

And the more that we continue to. [00:20:00] Waste medical resources because it's now a waste. We're not gonna survive her. She's not gonna survive this. So why are we putting a bandaid on a way bigger problem that we want to ignore? And that may be one of the worst days of my entire life. He was screaming at me, I'm sobbing.

And then he finally was like, well then do whatever you want. And I had to make my sister do not resuscitate that day.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: That's a big moment, Lori. That's a big moment. Yep.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: and that may be the hardest thing that I've ever had to do, but in that moment, I knew that I transitioned from sister slash nurse to her absolute advocate, and for anyone watching, my sister will be dead 16 years in December.

So. Still, things still get you when you go back to those, when you go back to those moments.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Yeah. And, and I love that you said [00:21:00] that because it's okay, it's okay that, that it's still, it's always going to be emotional intense.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: Right.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: up. It's a lot. Let me ask you this, Lori. I love the fish tank story, by the way. Love that. So

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: It was like I was in a bad lifetime movie. Like I, I remember thinking like. What is happening here. But yeah, it was like a lifetime movie that nobody wants to be in.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Yeah, and I appreciate you sharing that moment with us because I think so many of you guys listening that have been through a loss like Lori's, that is anticipatory. There are moments that shift along your journey and. Sharing that I think is gonna be helpful. And we do have some incredible siblings that listen to this when they're going through what you're going through, right?

They're actively losing their siblings. So knowing that these moments are normal, you're not crazy for, all of those things. Lori, I, it's just, it's so helpful. And, thank goodness for your friend that was there for you. These people are always so important in our lives, but I, I wanted to tap in a little bit to what you were sharing about your brother-in-law.[00:22:00] 

Because it's interesting, I hear a lot of conversations around this because different people react very differently in these types of situations, right? When you've got your loved one who is actively dying and you wanna do anything to save them and making a decision like you made, you're like, we're not doing this for her anymore.

We're doing this. For us, if we do this right or you're doing this for you, that's such a difficult conversation to have. And so, I just wanna tap on this for a second. What advice would you give to a sibling that might have to have that conversation with a spouse or a significant other? Because that is so tough.

'cause I, I've, again, I've heard in these situations from both sides, either the wife or the husband, or, sometimes they're just. You've got kids together, you've got, I get it. I get why they're holding on. But you have to do what's right for your sister and or brother, whomever it is that you're losing.

Like how did you get the strength to have that conversation? 'cause that's her significant other, that's not [00:23:00] easy at all.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: I don't know if I'm being completely honest, I just knew that I had to do something in that moment, and I knew he was gonna be mad. And I knew he was gonna fight with me. But I also think that he was so angry and so mad at himself, like they had a unique relationship. He took her on a date and then didn't call her for two years, and then he called.

He called her two years later and they got married and he was always so mad at himself for wasting that time that they could have been together. And so I think he was gonna do anything in his power to try to. Keep her alive for himself and for the children. And I absolutely respect that. And he's a good man.

I just knew that if I didn't stand up for her, and I know I didn't talk a a lot about this earlier on, but Gina defended me while I was growing up. I would get picked on at school, she'd be right on top of them at like any, she was my [00:24:00] protector, and this was my, not opportunity, but my responsibility to.

Defend and protect her when she couldn't protect herself. So I, I think that if anyone is experiencing this, dig deep and do what is right for your sibling and you can't go wrong because I will, while that was the hardest day of my life, probably this far it was potentially such a moment of growth for me.

The moment that I said that and he said, go ahead and do what you want. The rest of my family was like, okay, what are we doing? Like what's our next move? Do we Then there was talk about taking her to like MD Anderson or other cancer hospitals and I was like, how about we take her home and make her comfortable? And she was still awake and alert. And this is another lifetime moment that I feel like I suppress a lot. But she asked us to buy birthday cards, 16th [00:25:00] birthday when I got a car, when I get married. And she wrote out all of these cards for all three of her girls. Which just tells you like the ama, the amazing visionary and mom that she was, truly, I can't even tell you how many times while this was happening that I was like, my life has turned into the worst lifetime movie that you will ever see.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Yeah. Really well said. Right. It's like a lifetime movie. We're sitting there writing these cards and, but that's, wow. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. But it also just like reaffirms probably what you were thinking. She knew. She knew, she was like, okay, I know this is where things are going.

And what you were saying about, let's bring her home and make her comfortable. She knew. She knew. Was she actively talking to you about that at that point, or was it just like a known thing, like this is probably the end of of the journey.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: so yes and no. Sometimes she would talk about it, but [00:26:00] mostly she would say things like, well, I'm gonna do my best to hang around as long as I can. And, in my brain, I would think, oh my gosh, like her fighting spirit isn't there anymore and maybe she's accepted this, which then I think I was mad a little bit about that.

The flip side is, is we deserve to die with dignity and constantly getting treatments and poked and prodded. I don't think that's. A ton of dignity. So we were able to bring her home. She didn't wanna go to her house because of her, of her kids. So, so she went to, or we all essentially went to her in-law's house.

They had a really great setup and their entire basement was, was finished and really nice. And so we set up her camp down there. Everyone came in whenever they wanted to see her. It was, it was, it was really nice. I started spending nights with her. I had an incredible boss [00:27:00] at the time who was like, I wasn't eligible for FMLA because she was my sister, and that's not one of the qualifying family members.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: We'll double in on that later in this episode 'cause that's crazy. Right? That's crazy. But

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: So my boss, my boss said I will make you my own FMLA. You do what you need to do. So I would, right. I would be with my sister at night. Someone would come in the morning, I would sleep for a couple hours, I would go to work, it was, it was actually really helpful to me at that time.

And so, I would stay with her at night. Then like my brother would come, or my dad or one of our other family members would come and and hang with her during the day. And then I would come back at night and I desperately wanted to be there when she passed away. I so wanted to be there. And, we were giving her medicine so that she was comfortable and just trying to make her so comfortable.

And sometimes she would talk to me at night, she would be up and talk and then sometimes she wouldn't be, and just in and out of it. She and I, and I missed this earlier on, [00:28:00] but she had her 40th birthday in August, and then we're fast forwarding, like I had said, it's like November, it's late November, early December now, and it's really interesting because I wanted to have this gigantic 40th birthday party for her to just have a really big party and acknowledge her, and she absolutely didn't want it.

She said. People will only show up because I'm dying and that is the last thing that I want. And so we did not have a party. Well, we did. It was small. It was just our like immediate family and she was happy with that, but she really was so mindful of some of those things. Like I don't want people coming and sitting and staring at me with that pathetic face.

And I'm sure you're aware of that when people just look at you like, oh, I feel so bad for you.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Totally. I totally get what she's saying. Yeah.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: Same. And, and so, so that's not at all what she wanted. So we didn't do that, which ended up being perfectly fine. [00:29:00] And so there was a Christmas party that my work was hosting and it was on December 11th. And I was like, I'm not gonna go.

And she was like, I want you to go. And I did not want to, I did not want to go. But I went and I, I can't remember who stayed with her that night. I think her husband was there and I know her father-in-law was there. And, you, you go to this party that I don't wanna be at. I'm not really present.

I'm all over the place. I have all this stuff happening in my, in my personal life. But I'm gonna go. So I go to this party and, doctors and nurses and everyone there. And one of my favorite doctors that I worked with at the time, he said, how's she doing? And I was like, not great. She wanted me to come to this party tonight.

And he's like, well, once she passes, it will be for the best. And I've never wanted to punch somebody in the throat. So bad in my whole life, and I'll talk more about that later because [00:30:00] I think that there's a huge component of people not knowing what to say, so they just fill the space with ridiculous statements.

But I went home from the party and I got in bed and I was supposed to work the next morning, and my brother-in-law called and said. She's making this weird noise and kind of gurgly, and I was like, I'll get in the car and come down. And he was like, no, I don't think you need to come. And I was like, listen, let me just get dressed and I'll come out there.

And I, I got up and I started, getting dressed and ready to go, and he called me back and said she died.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Oh my gosh.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: So I remember getting in the car and I had to call work because I wasn't gonna make it to work. And another impactful place. I was getting on the expressway and the charge nurse answered the phone and I was like, I'm calling in sick tomorrow.

My sister died. And she was like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. And I was like, Ooh, I just had to say that out loud for real. So that wasn't [00:31:00] great, but then, I got to the house, I got to see her. The rest of my family came, the hospice nurse came, and then the rest was. That night is just a blur, like we went home and slept and got up the next day to figure out what the heck we do next.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned that she like your, your brother-in-law let you know that she was making like a noise. And a lot of people have referred to that as like the death rattle. Is that like what it's supposed to be like that kind of noise. And I've had other people mention that before. Is that what was happening?

And then she passed.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: I'm pretty sure that's what it is. It's usually the death rattles when there's like a lot of fluid built up in the lungs and whatever, and then you just, the breathing gets weird and Yes, so yeah, it was, it's so funny. There are so many things that I don't remember, but then there are these little moments that I can't forget and I remember like word for word what was said to me.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Yeah, [00:32:00] it, I connect with that very deeply. It's, it's grief and I think it's so important that we, we talk about it because there's, I connect with that. There's moments in my story where I can just like. It's like a movie. I can watch it back and it's like, and then there's moments where it's just like, what day was that?

And what was happening? And it's so interesting. So, so what happened next for you guys, Lori? Did you guys have a service for her? Or what, what was that like over the next few days? And I'm sure again, it was like a blur, but take us through what you remember that.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: it was decided that we were only gonna do a one day service, so it would be like a wake then prayers at the end, and she was going to be cremated, first of all to try to make it a little bit easier on her kids. She now has. Twins that are 14 and a 3-year-old. So, and the three-year-old only knows her mom being sick.

So, so we had this one day thing, and this is another point where I was like, oh she'll be so happy that I did this for her. She might not be happy about a lot of other things that I've done, but she'll be [00:33:00] so happy we got to the funeral home and I went up to see her and she looked awful. Like not even recognizable to who she was.

And I remember going to my dad and saying, I'm closing the casket. I don't care what like anybody says, this is not how she would want people to see her. And he was like, okay, I'll follow your lead. We had them close the casket. We found this beautiful picture of her, put it on top. And that made me feel a little bit at peace like I got you.

You might not be here, but I got you. Like, I'm not gonna let all these people look at you. Just similar to like her not wanting people to look at her with pity, but to be like, oh, she looked awful. But she did,

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: of that.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: she looked terrible.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: yeah, yeah.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: Absolutely not herself. And not exactly what, what, what she would want.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Yeah.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: That same boss, that was amazing to me.

Came to her wake and was like, so I'll see you at work [00:34:00] tomorrow. And I was like, I can't come to work tomorrow. I have like my nieces to take care of and figure some things out. So the dynamic between my boss and I definitely changed after that because I was home then the next day and then I went back to work.

I think that was her service was on a Monday. I stayed home on Tuesday and then Wednesday went back to work, which I was an absolute mess for.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: You're a beast, Lori, going back to work that fast. I know. I went back pretty quick too, and I remember my boss saying, which I've shared on the show, was like. Get outta here. She lost her brother and so she connected, thank goodness. But I didn't know that prior. But I wanna ask you something about this and then obviously continue down our, our journey here.

But do you feel like when we lose a loved one, which here we talk about sibling loss of course, to an anticipatory loss. Like your sister, you lost your sister to breast cancer, and then of course it spread. Very, very intense situation. Do you feel like with work, there's so many questions with work, right?

The FMLA, [00:35:00] like the fact that they don't recognize siblings, it's so crazy to me. It's wild to me. But do you feel with an anticipatory loss, like your, your boss's reaction is so interesting to me because it's almost like they, they're like, okay, well she's, she's passed now, so you're gonna be fine now. So like, I feel like there's a different standard, a little bit compared to like a sudden loss where they're expecting you to.

Feel like this is a shock you need to, whereas this isn't shocking that she passed, but there are things that set in after the passing. So no, you're not ready to resume life as usual because life is never gonna be as usual again. Do you feel like there's a little bit of a different standard because I've seen it myself and it's interesting that you have this to share with your boss.

'cause there was a shift there.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: A hundred percent. I, and I, I don't know that it's just with like workplaces or whatever. I think that. We knew she was sick, we knew she was gonna die, and now it's happened. And she's like, great. I helped you out when you needed it so you could spend time with her [00:36:00] and now I need you to get back to work.

But I also think that our society isn't great with grief support because somebody dies and they're really present for the first 12 weeks and then they think you should be over it because they're over it. I'm not over it and it's almost 16 years later. So I get that life goes on and we have to adjust and pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off and move on. But I don't think our society, not necessarily values, I just think they're like, okay, we're done here. Let's keep it moving. And that ties into when I said people saying the wrong thing. I do think there is something to be said for. Our society slash culture, not being comfortable with silence, always needing to fill it with words and potentially the wrong things.

There I could probably list off 15 things that I don't ever wanna hear outta someone's mouth [00:37:00] again. Starting with, I know what you're going through and I know that we talked about this before we hopped on here, but we both know grief and we've both lost siblings. Your journey is very different than mine, and I think that goes for anybody that is experiencing loss.

So, the, the doctor who told me it was for the best, or, just give this some time. If anyone takes anything away from what I'm saying today is time just allows you to adapt to your new reality. That's what time does. It doesn't change how much you love the person. It doesn't change how much you miss them.

I have found ways to incorporate her into my daily life with my daughter. And, at holidays we do some funny things. She wasn't a great cook. And we, I, I think it was maybe Christmas, she said she was bringing a salad. And my brother must have said that sometimes he likes salad. Like the day later, 'cause it's a little bit mosier.

[00:38:00] So she made this salad the night before. She shows up to Christmas with this ratty, wilted day old salad. And so, so sometimes at holidays, one of us will show up with this ratty one day old salad and be like, Gina made the

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: I love it.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: Gina made the salad. Here you go. And then we just laugh about it.

But it's one my favorite.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: That's amazing. I'm so glad you shared that. I love that Gina's here with us guys.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: She made the salad. And it's terrible. It looks awful. The croutons are all mushy and, but yeah, so, so, we, we do that, but I do think that our society is so uncomfortable with silence that they just start saying things. It doesn't make anybody feel better, and I feel like I have been made angry so many times by things people say.

And for me, like I will say, I'm so sorry for your loss. I have no [00:39:00] words. If you need anything, please reach out. But then I'll usually reach out. A week later and be like, just checking in. Do you need anything? If you wanna yell, scream, holler, or just talk about anything. Please know that I'm available to you and maybe that should be my, the takeaway.

If anyone takes anything away from that, if you don't understand grief or you've never had the privilege for someone who is grieving to allow you into their grief, that just be quiet. You don't have to fill the air in the space with unnecessary words because you're probably hurting someone's feelings.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Yeah, I, I agree. And I really yeah, whenever we talk about this on the show, like what people say, I always think back, and I'm sure you're doing the same thing right now too, thinking back on all the crazy things that people told you. Right. It's really wild. Yeah.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: I, I honestly. The most, the most common ones are, I know how you're feeling. She's better [00:40:00] off. This is the way it was supposed to be. I get it. I am a woman of faith, but if this was the way I thought it was supposed to be, it wouldn't be like this. She would, I wouldn't be on your show, right?

Because my sister would be alive. But that's not my story. And while I get that, and, and stop telling people that, just give it some more time. Time just allows you to adjust to your new reality, which has

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: I love that you said that, Lori. Okay. Time allows you to adjust to your new reality because I don't know if you've ever heard me say this, but my tag phrase for time is I always say time doesn't heal all wounds. Guys, I always say that. I'm like, time doesn't heal wounds, but time allows you. To heal. And so we're saying something very similar, just in a different way.

I got chills when you said your, your version of it. 'cause I love that. I love that you're saying like, time allows you to like, adjust it. It's, it's just a more elevated way to say what I say because the thing is, people say all the time, they're like, it doesn't get easier. It doesn't get easier.

I'm like. Look, it does, and it does it. You are always going to feel this intense [00:41:00] pain of missing your sister, Gina. That doesn't get easier and that doesn't change. But what we're saying is with time and w with how you spend your time too, is a whole other thing. Just letting time pass is not, is not enough.

But whatever you wanna do for your, for your journey and however you wanna help yourself on the journey you have, like you said, it allows you to, I love this allows you to adjust and that's why it becomes quote unquote. Like, you're not gonna be overwhelmed every single day of your life. But as you shared earlier on the show, there's always gonna be parts of the story that are difficult to share or tap into or remember.

Like that's where it becomes more balanced and we become a little more humanized along the journey versus feeling so like, how am I even gonna get out of bed? Right? And that's where it starts to level for you.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: For sure. And, and the, the other piece is, I am almost 16 years into my journey from her death, not counting the anticipatory piece of this. And there are days that I could tell you. A million funny stories about [00:42:00] her and laugh and laugh and laugh and probably laugh till I cry. And then there are days that you could pull an old picture out of her and I and I will stop it.

It just, it just depends and I'm sure there are plenty of people who can relate to that as well. It just depends. Or I'm in the grocery store and her favorite song comes on 'cause we're that old, but like that kind of stuff. Or there's days that I'll dance in the grocery store. just depends what's going on.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: I connect with that, that too for me, it's whenever I hear goo goo dolls. 'cause my brother was like a little kid like dancing to that. So whenever I hear that, it's so funny you say that because if I'm in, if I, 'cause that plays on the grocery store these days, guys. Okay. I'm old enough now. I'm, I'm almost 40 now.

So, but when that plays, it's like, yeah, it can be, maybe I'll tear up a little bit or maybe I'll like. Sing it while I'm going down the aisle. It just, it changes, it evolves, your grief and like different days. It can hit you in different ways and I think it's so nice that you're sharing that Lori, with [00:43:00] 16 years of, of the loss, not even the anticipatory part.

I think it's just, again, I think it gives people permission to, you grieve for life, but it doesn't mean it's gonna be debilitating for life.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: For for sure. So my sister loved Rio Speedwagon and Journey, and so anytime like those will come on the the radio, my daughter will be like, auntie Gina's here, be quiet. So we have to listen to the whole song, which is just fun.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: I love that. Let me, so let me ask you this. How, how have her kids done all these years? They're adults now, right? So it's like, yeah. Some are older than, there was an age gap in the kids. So how are, how have they done? What was this like? I'm sure you've been very. Present and, or, or maybe that, that was a whole dynamic as well, because

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: So her. Her twins will be 29 this year. They're both married. They both have have children. They have struggled with lots of things, but I think that [00:44:00] they're both doing fairly well. They're not, they're not bust outs. But they're not CEOs of companies either. I, I think that they're both good moms.

They, they have struggles, right? They, they lost their mom at 14, which I think is a really impactful age. But I, I think that they're both doing as best as like I would expect them to be doing. And then the, her youngest daughter just turned 18, just turned her birthday's, November. But she'll be ni she'll be 19 in in November.

She's, she's doing well too. School work. Do I think that with Rachel is, is her youngest? I think Rachel, I, I don't wanna say she struggled the most, but she's the one who didn't know my sister well.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Yeah, it's

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: and Julia, her older ones, had her for, for 14 years and knew how much she loved them.

So I feel like, I, I would take Rachel a lot. And I remember one day she and I were going to the store and I [00:45:00] said something about August 29th, and she was like, what's August 29th? And I'm like, that was your mom's birthday. So. I have tried to spend a lot of time with them over the years and, and maybe more so Rachel A.

Little bit to be like, look at all these pictures that I have of your mom and like, let's talk about her. What do you wanna know about her? Like, she absolutely hated strawberries and tuna fish, but she absolutely loved Pepsi and Doritos and, just so that she knows a little bit more about her. And we've had our ups and downs where it's.

How are you not helping us or, we could use more help. And that's everyone's perception, right? Their perception is their reality. And I've talked that through with them. And some of it is just as simple as you, were grieving your mom, I'm grieving my sister, and we're doing our best to, to help you and figure out how to align you with what your future kind of looks like.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: [00:46:00] Yeah. Thanks for answering that. I know that can always be difficult, but I like to ask those questions because again, it comes up so much in, in our community and how, how do we keep our sibling alive to their children, to our children that we have that may never have met them? Right? There's so many questions and things that come up, and I think just some really cool.

Examples that you've given, like your mom loved this, this was her birthday. Like it doesn't have to be super complicated, right? It can be. I think what you've described is what I see people doing in a successful way to keep. Memories alive and keep this person alive in the sense of, and remembered, I guess I should say, it is just, it's the small things.

Like who, who is she as a person? Like what did she, like, what didn't she like? What were her special days? What were her special things? And I think it's really healthy to weave this into our life, and I've seen, I've had my own, some of my own family members weave, like my brother very, in a very healthy way into their life with their kids and stuff.

And I, I [00:47:00] watch it and I'm like, that's. That's the way to do it. Right. But I think every family dynamic is different. So I'm always curious like, how did you guys do this? And what does that look like for you? But that's wonderful to hear that they're all doing well.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: Yeah, it's, I think it's just, it's so, it's so tricky, right? Because. I'm not their mom. And there have been times that I've walked into family parties and I don't think that Gina and I looked much alike growing up. You have some pictures, but I'll walk into a party and they'll be like, you look just like my mom today.

And I'm always like, I don't know if you want me to say sorry, or if it, if it makes you sad or if it makes you happy that, that I look like her today or, or, I reminded you of that. And mostly they say it doesn't, it doesn't bother them. But I'm always like. Okay. So it, it makes me uncomfortable sometimes.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Right. You're like, which way am I receiving this? Is this hard to see me because of that? Or are you like, is it a good memory? I totally get where you're coming from from that. Yeah. And again, there's all these, dynamics in this. So Lori tell me a little bit about where [00:48:00] you are today, because again, 16, 16 years.

And then really 18, 19, if you go through her diagnosis, you're coming up on a almost 20 year milestone. It's a big, big deal. But you are definitely an advocate for, for your sister and I, I, again, I love you are, and I love that you know your story and how you shared about, advocating for her and that kind of, that moment where it shifted.

But where are you today? And then to tack on a, a second part of this, what advice would you give? Are incredible listeners because some of them are going through this experience right now, Lori, some of them have a, a sibling that is actively dying. Some of them may have an actively a sister who has breast cancer that are listening to this, right?

So, again, I, I think these stories are so important to share and, and not only to keep our beautiful siblings alive like Gina, but so that. We, it's a roadmap for us in how we can get through this, right? Because sometimes we need a story more than anything else to get through something.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: Oh, [00:49:00] absolutely. So. I've had lots of time to reflect, obviously, over the last several years, and then I spent a lot of time reflecting over the last week before, our, our call here today. I will say that I always try to look for the positive when it comes to grief, and I think that people get confused by that, but I will tell you that I am a better human.

I'm a better nurse and I'm a way better mom for this experience, and I will tell you that as a nurse, clinically very skilled, compassionate. I think that I did a really great job, but once Gina got sick and then was dying, I became a way better patient advocate. I will never let a patient go to the operating room or anywhere else without the family seeing them.

Because if there's a chance that they could die in the operating room or potential for something bad [00:50:00] to happen that they might not have an opportunity to see them, I will always advocate for that. I have to say that I'm, I'm a way better nurse. As a mom, I try to emulate some of Gina's the way she was raising Brianna.

Julia and Rachel and just, she had this, she was fierce. Like, I, I can't even explain to you just how larger than life she was and passionate about everything and most passionate about her kids, but she had this soft side for them that I work hard every single day to show up like that for, for my daughter and just as a human.

I think I've always been kind, but. After that experience or continuing my journey with this grief experience, I think I'm a way better human. Just kinder. I will smile at people all the time. 'cause you have no idea what anyone else is going through. And maybe saying that you like their shoes or just smiling at them just changes their, their whole [00:51:00] entire.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: That's so interesting you say that because I, it took me a few years 'cause I was not pleasant in the first few years. I was very angry.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: Nor was, nor was I.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Yeah. I'm like, I feel like I know where we're both going with this, Lori. But yeah, and then there was a shift in me, especially after starting this show, right. And also after getting answers about what happened to my brother, there was a shift in me because I started to realize. I had to live in honor of him and in honor of both of us. And like, I have this, it was a shift for me, which I talk about very often, but as I started to do this show and I told my story and now I share all of your stories, I noticed a deep level of empathy and lightness in myself and all of these things that you're describing.

And I'm just like, I'm connecting so much with this part of your story. But people were like. How this is so wild. Like what you really find that you're a deeper empath, and I'm like, absolutely 100% to the point where I have to protect myself a [00:52:00] little bit at this point

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: You do.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: you.

Yeah.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: have to protect your energy. I could spend my whole life being miserable because I lost my sister. Or I can try to find joy in being a better person, a better mom, and just spreading some of this. Right. We, we have an opportunity to choose joy, right? So I'm gonna choose joy because if we've learned anything, life is precious and extremely short. So I, that's how I choose. That's what I choose. A couple years in terrible choices, pushing away amazingly good people for me because of grief, anger, fear, all of those things.

That's not how I want to live my life. That's not how I want my legacy to be, and I certainly don't want to have that be how my sister's legacy is translated through me that I am an angry lady because I lost my sister. I'm super sad that I lost her. I'm forever [00:53:00] grateful for her presence in my life. But to be angry all the time and mad, it's just not how I wanna live.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Yeah, so well said. Lori, this has been amazing. Is there anything you wanna add or anything I didn't ask you before we talk about where people can connect with you if you're comfortable with that? Of course. No.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: Sure. I, I don't, I don't think so. Is there anything that I missed that you think I, I should have, I should touch on or, okay.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Nope. Just always like to ask. And, and any last pieces of advice, anybody that's actively going through this? Any, you gave some great nuggets all throughout here, but anything else that you would add that we didn't touch on? Somebody who maybe just recently lost their sister to breast cancer or is actively losing them?

Any, any little tidbit we might not have touched on? Would love to hear that from you. And then we'll talk about where to find you.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: So there, there are a couple things. First of all, show yourself some grace. There are some days that I barely could show up. So days that you can't get out of bed, show yourself some [00:54:00] grace and then also show others grace. Everyone, we can't all be having the best days of our life every single day.

So also meet people where they're at. And if you are not feeling it like you're supposed to go do something, but you're sad and you don't wanna go, don't go do what's best for you. The, the people pleasing piece of grief. I, I struggle with and, and, and I know I, I don't wanna spend too much time on this, but do what's best for you in the moment. I, I think that is, is important because I feel like, oh, I have to go do this because so and so wants this, or I think it's the right thing to do, but I'm not feeling it today. Take care of you.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: I love that. I think it's really great advice and I wish I'd had that advice many, many years ago, so that's

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: Me too.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Yeah, because I feel like there's a people pleaser in me and I I get it, Lori, I, that's great advice. You have to put [00:55:00] yourself first. Look, just 'cause you didn't wanna go out to dinner that night or go to a party or, you know what, there'll be more dinners, there'll be more parties, that take care of yourself.

I, I love that. I think it's, I think it's great. Lori, where can we connect with you? Where are you comfortable? Social media, email, what's best for you?

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: You know what? I think my email would probably be easiest except for I have a long last name, so.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: That's okay. That's okay. We'll put it in the show notes, but if you wanna spell it out for us too so they know where to find you.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: sure. It's L-C-H-I-A-P-P-E-T-T a22@gmail.com.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Perfect. And we'll put that in the show notes as well. Lori, thank you so much for being here today and sharing your story and Gina's story with us. It's been really wonderful having you.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori View: Thank you so much for allowing me to be able to do this today.

SS8 Episode 2- Lori Maya view: Yeah, my pleasure. And thank you guys so much for listening to the Surviving Siblings Podcast.