Mending Piece by Piece

0:00:10 - Maya

Welcome to the Surviving Siblings podcast. I'm your host, Maya Roffler. As a surviving sibling myself, I knew that I wanted to share my story, my brother's story. I lost my brother to a homicide in November 2016. And after going through this experience, I knew that I wanted to share my story and his story. And now it's your turn to share your stories. Hi guys, welcome back to the Surviving Siblings podcast. Today I have, of course, another incredible surviving sibling with us who has a story of losing not one brother, but two brothers. So I want to welcome Linda Falasco to the show. 

0:00:50 - Linda

Linda, welcome home. Thank you, maya. Thank you so much for having me on your show and I've been looking forward to it sort of no, I've been looking forward to it and I really, when I first heard your podcast, I was like I have to connect with you because I just felt like so much of your story and I really I, when I first heard your podcast, I was like I have to connect with you because I just felt like so much of your story and I was so glad you were sharing your story. For us was like my story and other people's stories, so thank you for doing this. 

0:01:18 - Maya

Thank you. Thank you for the warm welcome to me. I love it. Yes, it's so bittersweet. I say that all the time, I say it on every platform. I'm always like it's so bittersweet to connect with people because it's so nice to know that this has turned into something that can help other people. But I hope no one ever has to listen to this show. But they do and they have to, and so thank you so much and thank you for supporting the show. We're going to get into everything that you do, but I would love for you to tell us a little bit about Jeff and Michael, both of your brothers. Tell us a little bit about you guys growing up, kind of your family history, and then, of course, we'll get into both of the losses that you have gone through. 

0:01:59 - Linda

Okay, so I was the oldest of three, so I'm the only surviving sibling now. So Jeff was three years, like two years, 10 months apart, so it was three years. And then Michael was nine years younger than I am and, to be honest, I'd love to tell you that we had this perfect, you know family and it was all like Rosie and like pick a fence and the dog, but it wasn't. My mom was 17 when she had me and my dad was 20. So they were really young, you know, I guess inexperienced out there on their own. 

There was a lot of dysfunction, a lot of dysfunction, a lot of drinking and a lot of family addiction history. So I was very protective over both my brothers growing up. I didn't know it at the time, but like a very parentified child, I did a lot that most kids shouldn't have had to do, but when it came to my brothers, like I was, I was pretty protective. At the same time, though, I was out there trying to do my own thing, meaning, like you know, just kind of survive or be on my own, and that was hard, because finding out later like my brothers when I went to college took it pretty hard, especially Michael the youngest, and yeah, like they felt like they were abandoned and I just left them and so there's a lot of guilt there, you know, coming from that. 

But yeah, we did my younger brother, michael. We were very close because I used to pretend he was mine, like Harris, nine, ten years old, and I would be like, took him everywhere, I babysat all the time, feed him. So we were close that way, like, and then Jeff and I we were just at that stage where you would be getting close like again, like in that going into adulthood, where you should be friends and you should be hanging out. And then he died and I think and we, we were passing each other a lot. Meaning my family moved to Florida when I was a junior in college, so we're from Philly, like outside of Philadelphia, and they moved and I was here and then when I went there he came up here. So we like passed each other we when I went to college college pretty much, that was the last time we lived together. 

0:04:28 - Maya

Wow yeah, yeah, I mean I already relate to your story a lot. I have a sister who's 10 years younger than me and I used to I mean I still to this day. She's like my baby, like I don't have kids of my own and she's like my baby and it's really interesting to be a parent figure at such a young age, and so I so connect with you on that. It's different, it's a different sense of responsibility, it's a different. I'm the oldest of four is I'm sure you know. So I connect with you on this a whole lot. And then you're right, like when you have a sibling that's within that age group of like the two or three, four, maybe even five years, you're kind of ships passing and you guys, literally, were like you passed each other and moving, so that's interesting. 

0:05:13 - Linda

Yeah, yeah, and it was hard because I think of all the dysfunction we grew up with, it gets very different. Like I have two kids now Like I watch them and of course they do things so very different. Like I have two kids now Like I watch them and of course they do things so much different. But to see their relationship, how of my brothers they knew I had their back and I literally would go to bat for them all the time. 

0:05:51 - Maya

As we do as the oldest right. 

0:05:53 - Linda

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

0:05:55 - Maya

I can mess with them, but you can't. 

0:05:57 - Linda

That's it, Like I'm allowed to say that or do that, but you're not allowed to Exactly. 

0:06:19 - Maya

Typical just. I mean, I'm sure it's all families, but I find it in dysfunctional families, especially like your parents were, like babies raising a baby, like that's that's a lot, and I never thought of it like that that can happen between the siblings and the family dynamic, Like we can say all this stuff but like if someone else says it it's kind of interesting the dynamic that happens. 

0:06:36 - Linda

Yeah. 

0:06:37 - Maya

Yeah, yeah, so tell us a little bit about first. We're going to obviously talk about Jeff. 

0:06:42 - Linda

you lost first, so tell us a little bit about Jeff's story and what happened with Jeff so the both my brothers were sensitive but Jeff was really sensitive and I know that's probably not like guys don't want to be called sensitive, but he was like he had like such a tender heart and he was so kind and I always, just thinking about it, I always felt for him because he had trouble in school like making friends and maybe keeping friends and school was not his thing All of us. It wasn't until Michael was in school and got tested like we all had ADD and learning disabilities and neither Jeff nor I ever got diagnosed. Like how I even got my master's degree I'll never know, because it wasn't until after that like I really ended up getting some testing done. I was like, wow, so he really struggled. He struggled in school. He struggled with just adjusting, like going to school. I mean I can remember he went to preschool right around the corner from our house Day one he was kicked out, he bit the teacher and he bit another student and I was only, I was like six. 

But I can remember that and remember feeling sad for him because I think he it was really what I know now about trauma and like separation, like he had issues separating and like had trauma reaction and that makes it hard for me to to think. That's one of the guilts I have is like why did both my brothers struggle so much? And not that I didn't struggle, but why I was looked at Like I did succeed, I guess, like I just felt like they just struggled so much more, and he definitely did. He was also quick-tempered, just like I was, but he, like I said he was just sensitive and it was probably I was in college right when they were getting ready to move. So like I'm trying to think how old he was when they moved Maybe 17, 18. He was just got his core group of friends. He had a girlfriend for like two years. He was like adjusting well, finally, and like happy, and then they decided to move and that must have been so difficult for him. 

0:09:07 - Maya

He had just kind of found out who he was as a young man, about to be an adult. That must have really thrown him off. 

0:09:13 - Linda

Oh yeah, it definitely did. Yeah, that move, really that move in general didn't seem like a great move for everybody. It just seemed like things started to kind of really fall apart. 

0:09:27 - Maya

We hope you're enjoying this incredible episode of the Surviving Siblings podcast. I'm your host, maya Roffler. We'll be back in just a minute after hearing from our incredible sponsor, meet Linda Falasco, a licensed clinical social worker, therapist, consultant and lecturer. Linda has faced her own heart-wrenching losses, losing both brothers and several family members. However, instead of succumbing to despair, linda channeled her pain into creating two powerful grief resources to support others on similar journeys Introducing Mending Piece by Piece Workbook and Journals. 

Mending Piece by Piece is not just a workbook and journal. It's a guide crafted to help you honor your grief journey without judgment or impatience. Linda's unique blend of personal and professional experiences brings a rare perspective to her work. She shares information in a factual yet deeply empathetic manner, making Mending Piece by Piece an invaluable resource for anyone seeking healing and hope. You can find both editions Mending Piece by Piece After a Suicide Loss Guided Grief Workbook and Journal to Heal the Survivor's Heart, and Mending Piece by Piece, a workbook and journal for navigating grief with hope on Amazon and Barnes and Noble. Remember your grief journey is unique and it deserves to be honored. Let Mending Piece by Piece be your guide as you navigate the complex process of grief and healing. Order your copy today and take the first step towards finding hope and healing, mending Piece by piece, healing through grief, one step at a time. 

0:11:11 - Linda

So he moved and like I guess he thought he could make this work, but he couldn't Girlfriend, they broke up, you know, he wasn't able to go back and forth. It's pretty far. So he tried to adjust there. There's's not. I used to have a postcard. I just found recently that he sent me and said like on the front it said something like oh, wish you were here. And then he crossed it out. He goes no, I wish I was there. He goes this place sucks the key is funny. Um, so I? I just found that I was laughing because it was like a hard place If you didn't move down there and already established like, have jobs, have money, like it's a hard place to move to, like you don't have a boat or you don't, yeah, you don't have the money to do the things. What's there to do down there was hard. So we had to meet new friends and, yeah, it just it was a hard thing. And then I think my family started really falling apart, probably, like with trying to get jobs. I don't know, I wasn't there. 

0:12:20 - Maya

Like I said, I was the reason for the move, linda. It sounds like such a such a big change, and also at kind of pivotal times, like he's at the end of his high school slash beginning college road, typically for kids. Well, he wasn't in high school. 

0:12:33 - Linda

He dropped out. He did drop out, so even more challenging. Yeah, he dropped out, worked with my dad. My dad had his own roofing company and, yeah, to this day I don't know the full story of why they moved. My mom was always one that was like the grass is greener, let's go here, let's go there. Let's you know. They went on a vacation that my mom did not want to go on. I remember this christmas, my dad my dad would always buy her like gifts that were a little crazy, like just his taste, not hers, and he bought her this trip to the florida keys. A lot of people from this area moved down to the florida keys, so he thought she would like it. I remember her being like I don't want to go there. 

No lie, I got a call while they were there saying we, we bought a house. What? Who does that? Yeah, who does that? Yeah, they literally bought a house. That was more. It was all my mom, it was all my mom. So they my dad stopped his business. There was reasons. I think there was probably some. He had tax, there was I don't know business stuff, but that it was not a good move. Like, if it was up to my dad, I don't think he would have really totally moved down there. So they moved, not thinking about anything else or anyone else, just life was going to be great until it wasn't Right. Yeah. So I think that was really hard watching my parents trying to find jobs Like they were pretty successful up here, like and then going down there. There's not any, there's not much to do down there, there's not much work. 

0:14:10 - Maya

Absolutely. 

0:14:11 - Linda

No. 

0:14:12 - Maya

Yeah, so yeah. 

0:14:14 - Linda

I think that really is where things took a turn. So, like, like I said, he came up here for a little bit and I went down like I graduated college and I think we did live together for a split second with my grandmom when I graduated college. I moved there for like three weeks and then I moved down down to Florida because I didn't have a job. He was with my grandma at that time, so we did have that um, but things went bad really quick down there um, because I moved out, got my own place and, yeah, things went, went pretty, pretty bad. Um. So, but he didn't know it, he didn't see it, but michael did, so michael was affected by it. 

0:15:01 - Maya

Okay, yeah and then I like I only stayed in florida maybe like 10 months, moved back up here and then somewhere he moved back down, like I'm telling you, we were two ships passing you literally were, and so he goes back down there and you. 

0:15:17 - Linda

Things were rough when things were really that's like that's a whole nother episode in itself yeah things were really bad, like my parents weren't together at one point. Um, I wanted to come back up here and was trying to get help for me and my younger brother, like I could be on my own, but he couldn't. He was only 11, 10, 11 at the time and it was bad. 

I had him a little bit where in my apartment and I'm 20, 21. I can't take care of a 10 year old kid. So the plan was I was going to try to get somebody up here to help, like up north to help. Nobody showed up, like I was exaggerating and it was bad it was not good? 

0:16:03 - Maya

Clearly you weren't, because you know you end up losing Jeff. So tell us what that was like losing your first brother. What? 

0:16:11 - Linda

happened next? So yeah, yeah, it's crazy, it'd be 30 years, july, july 18th 1994. That's the day that my life completely changed Really. I think you've said it and I've heard many people say there's a before Linda and an after Linda, and that's that date. I became a whole different person. 

So I was in grad school at the time. I was on summer break to become a therapist to help everybody else with their problems, and here I lost my brother. So I wasn't going to go back to school and luckily I had professors and some good support that really were like just at least come back, let's try. But I was for a while like how could I do this? I couldn't even help my brother, I didn't even see this. But kind of rewinding. So the day I found out, my husband but it was my boyfriend at the time was the one who had to tell me. 

And that day, like it's crazy, I can't remember what, like I literally can't remember what I ate yesterday, but you can remember every part of that day. So I was coming home from a chiropractor appointment and he was at the door and he was like you need to come in and I'm like what? I had something I was painting on the porch that I left there and was going to continue to paint usually come in and then my sister-in-law we all lived together was sitting on the couch and she looked like she's seen a ghost and I was like he's like, sit down. I'm like I'm not sitting, I'm not gonna sit. He's like no, I need to sit. 

I guess I sat that part, I don't remember. And then he told me that my brother, um, had hung himself the night before he was at the. He was in the hospital down in the keys, um, on life support and that they were going to try to move him, I think the next day to Miami because it was a small hospital to see what they could do. But I remember when he said it of course I just was devastated, but I thought it was Michael, like it blew me away. I think it took a while before I got it through that it was Jeff. 

0:18:30 - Maya

Right. 

0:18:32 - Linda

Because Michael was the one who had so much problems, like he had so much mental health issues and he was already into drugs and alcohol at that point. And I was like what Jeff? Like that I didn't see coming. And then all I could say was I knew it. I knew it and started the blame game already, like it was my fault. My fault Because three nights before I started I watched a show Montel. I don't know if you're too young, I remember Montel. 

Montel. He did a show that Friday on homicide suicide and I remember being like I was just so upset by the show and thought that can happen to my family. 

0:19:18 - Maya

What Maybe I just that gave me chills, Linda. 

0:19:21 - Linda

Yeah, wow, we have these weird intuitions. 

0:19:24 - Maya

Right, it's so weird. 

0:19:26 - Linda

Like I don't never knew anyone that that happened to, but I was like that could happen. Why did you connect with that? 

0:19:31 - Maya

like I don't know before. It's why? 

0:19:33 - Linda

well, we know now yeah, I got goosebumps just talking about it, right? So I had a nightmare that night that I don't remember the nightmares, but something happened to someone in my family, like they were, they were dead, like it was bad. The next night I went out and and I don't I wouldn't do this now, but I got dream catchers because the nightmares were so bad, like I was like waking up screaming and no, maybe it was after the second night. I had it three nights in a row, I had it, and then I, the fourth day, I got that. You know, I was told what happened with my brother. So I was like blaming myself, like I should have known I did. I should have told them, like I should have warned them, like warn them what I'm having nightmares, like some of my die, like I don't know. So, yeah, that's kind of really weird that that happened. Yeah, um, so I started blaming. 

0:20:24 - Maya

You have these intuitions and it's interesting how that happens. But I appreciate what you're saying to Linda, where you're like, well, you know, it's like I think we feel this way especially early in our grief. We're like I should have said this or I should have done that, and I appreciate you kind of, just like being so raw and open and saying yeah, but like if I said something, what were they going to look for? You know, I think that's interesting that you mentioned that. So, yeah, okay, I wish I could have said that when I was going through it, but I didn't. 

0:20:51 - Linda

That was many, many years right before I could kind of come to terms with. There was nothing you could do right. There was, you know that's hard. 

The whole woulda coulda shoulda yeah, um, and that protective piece like, oh, because my brother had asked to come live with us you know a few months, yeah, a few months before it, and I was just like I can't, because again I could do, I could have a whole season podcast with you because my brother, michael, had come live with us, probably like within that year, and it was a disaster, like it was not good, like had a runaway come to our house like stole stuff, stole my husband's truck, like it was not good. So, right, I was like I'm, I'm just in this relationship, like I can't, I can't do this right now, and I was like can't you go to nana's? So then that guilt, like I maybe he was trying to ask me for help and he didn't. And you know, there just was so much that shoulda, coulda, woulda, um but in reflection, like any. 

0:22:00 - Maya

I mean, he was trying to come live with you guys, but in reflection, did he have any any? Because I mean, I think there's all different types of stories about this right, about losing a sibling to suicide, and sometimes they're like, yeah, you know, I've there were signs, and then sometimes it's like no, so what was your experience with that, linda? 

0:22:22 - Linda

yeah, so all these, I'm a therapist too, so I right, ended up, this became my specialty working with traumatic loss because it just becomes that, um, it's your life, yeah, it becomes your life. And there's probably only one person, one family, that I have interacted with that I can say I still like hearing their story. I can't. I that one was like they were blindsided. I couldn't put any puzzle pieces together myself. I think you can usually look back and see. You know my brother was struggling. He was depressed, he drank. You know he got himself into some trouble, apparently with some drug dealers down there that he worked with, like he worked for this company, but it was. It was a front for drugs. 

He didn't know it, at the time he was just working time. He was just working and I think you know I, from what we heard later, like somebody I guess, like he gave some to drugs, apparently didn't pay him. And these people this is just I found all this out later. They lived, my parents had an apartment under me, they lived there. So it also makes me so angry when I found out like they're there that day. They're at the funeral and they were a big part of the problem of like. They apparently threatened him that if he didn't have the money by midnight that they were going to kill him and his family. 

0:24:00 - Maya

Wow, how did you find this out, linda? 

0:24:10 - Linda

how did you find this out, linda? So my mom was on a mission again. I was up here, um, and then when my brother Michael, he found a lot out and I did reach out to one of a person that was my brother's friend, that was like, good guy, clean like he. He verified it all and he was like, yeah, that's what was. It's very small, it's very small down there, very shady yeah. 

0:24:33 - Maya

It's a different lifestyle, definitely. It's a different kind of community, definitely. So tell us a little bit about so you, your boyfriend at the time're now husband, of course, many years later. Yes, um, tells you about this, and then what was next? 

0:24:52 - Linda

so he was, was he tells me about it, yeah, he tells me about it and like I'm in shock and I don't remember. Between him and my best girlfriend, they knew people that worked down the airport, um, for the airlines, and back then they had buddy passes, so they were able to get me a buddy pass. I was on a plane, I think within an hour and a half down there to go and you know face, whatever's happening. 

So I go, I'm, I'm a mess, I don't know. I don't even remember if I packed a bag. Obviously, I must have Somebody packed a bag for me, I don't know. So I go and I'm flying and I'm a mess and I have no clothes. This is before cell phones. So I remember being at the airport, because I flew into one airport and then you get on a little flight and go to the next, and I called one of my close girlfriends to tell her what was going on from a pay phone. And then I got on this small plane and this guy sat next to me. He was supposedly there with his family. I don't know, there's only like 12 people on them. Have you ever been on one of them? Little, tiny, tiny planes, the little prop planes, oh yes, super tiny. 

0:26:06 - Maya

So that's what I was on to get to Marathon yeah. 

0:26:10 - Linda

So I must have been a mess and I can remember talking to this guy and he was just the nicest, sweetest person and he was like I'm going to as soon as you get off. You don't go into, like the airport or anything, you're there, you just walk out, there's the parking lot, kind of thing. And he was just like I'm gonna wait till whoever comes, because there was no one there yet and I'm like no, no, you don't have to. He's like no, I want to make sure, and I'm pretty sure his family had walked away and my dad pulls up. I'm like here's my dad, I get in the car this is another weird thing and I'm getting ready to tell my dad about this guy. It's there, maya, this, this is a tiny place, like you can't lose somebody. He was gone within 15 seconds. Nowhere, that's wild. Like my dad was like who, what I go? 

0:26:59 - Maya

that guy was looking to I wanted to say to my dad he was like he. 

0:27:04 - Linda

He's like I don't know, there's no one. I'm like, look, and I didn't make it up because this guy was on plane with me, right, so I don't know where he went, but as soon as I got in and got that done, my dad said he's gone, he's gone. And I was, jeff was gone, what Like he wasn't gone like just like a couple hours ago and apparently when I the time that my plane was landing because my dad was late and I was surprised that the hospital is like only a couple blocks, like I was thinking of walking because I'm like where is he? Apparently, my brother died the time my plane landed, whoa, and my parents said they truly believe that he did not want me to see him that way, maybe. 

0:27:53 - Maya

I don't know. 

0:27:56 - Linda

But he passed before I got there, but my mom was still at the hospital so I did see him and I didn't. Again, you don't know what to expect. He was still kind of hooked up to everything and my parents are a mess, like like I've never seen them, and he had this tear like he was crying. So I'm like he's alive, he's alive, he's. He's get the nurse like. I'm like yelling for the nurse and she had to tell me that you know these are just what reflexes or something after they die, like you know, and I I just remember being like oh he's alive and yeah, so was michael with you guys too oh my, oh my. 

Now, my um, my brother at that time wasn't in an adult prison in the keys. What michael was, michael was michael was still quite young, though yeah, he was only 15, wow, so I had to um, and that was part of something I just remembered. I think I might even type it to you in on tiktok, when, on one of your lives, I completely forgot it was me and my mom who went in to tell him um, so I asked I thought I remembered us talking about this before. 

This is, yeah, like story, yeah I guess, thinking about coming on here and I was just like going through and I thought, oh my, oh, my gosh. I like didn't remember being telling him, but I remember his face and I remember my mom talking about that. Like his face was so because we were so he was so excited to see me and we were so close. The excitement of him thinking I was there to visit and then having to tell him and having to leave him, that was absolutely horrible. Yeah, but I like I do the fashion of I have to take care of everything. I was able to get him out. I got him out, not that night, but he was able to get out and be at my brother's funeral and all that. Um, but yeah, so that was really hard because it just was so many layers of crazy. And then I had to step in and make the phone calls, kind of remember you talking about things like that and ranging, if you get a call, but then you're the one that has to. 

0:30:25 - Maya

You know, that's something that I think we've connected from. You know again, like you said, when we connect on tiktok and just we've been connecting like being the oldest there, it's interesting because this comes up a couple times on the season and there's just you kind of go I forget who was saying it, um, but someone described it. That's been on the show, she's great. So you kind of go into tactical mode and I'm like it's kind of a theme for this season is tactical mode. You kind of go into that and just take care of things, and so you're absolutely right, that was my role too is then I was like I got the call from my mom, but then I had to disperse all this information and it's really hard. And really hard. 

You know this information and it's really hard and really hard, you know, hearing you talk about going in to see michael and then having to like leave him. I know it wasn't very long, but still like delivering that kind of information and then not being able to be there like our kind of personality likes to be right for someone else, that's very rough. So making the calls, yeah, yeah, it's awful. 

0:31:23 - Linda

Yeah, and just making calls. And then there was only one funeral home within like almost a 50 mile radius, right, so we didn't have much to choose from and they were awful, so called you know, dealt with that, called family, called friends, telling them, you know, dealt with that, called family, called friends, telling them, um, and then what did? Oh, and then my brother befriended a priest. He like we're not, we weren't catholic, um, you know, non, I grew up, I went to a reformed episcopalian church, not my family. I went and I took my brothers, um, so he like there was like a Catholic church nearby and apparently my mom said you know, could you go talk to him? 

Father Tony Jeff talked to a lot and he was like he was a friend of his. So I did. Here's where the stigma starts is I go, I'm talking to him. He was the nicest guy and he was like I have to go talk to the head priest. Um, just cause I was asking could you do this service? I don't know what I'm asking. I'm 25. I don't know what I'm supposed to be putting out as you go. 

Yeah, so he was like yeah, I, you know I'd love to, but I have to get permission or whatever. So he goes and again, florida Keys. Nothing is like how you like, it is where you're at or where I'm at, like he goes behind a curtain, it's not like a separate office. I can hear him, I can, I can't see them. He's talking to the priest and the priest says is that that boy from Big Pine that committed suicide? 

We don't do funerals for people who commit suicide. I'm literally only 10 feet from them. Right, can hear this whole conversation. I just remember just feeling like so embarrassed and so ashamed and like devastated, like I'm like, if the church is is saying this, like what's the rest? Like what am I supposed to do? Like what? Like this is awful. He came out, he was, he was embarrassed and he said to me, whispered, he goes, I will do the service, we'll do it at the funeral home. And he and yeah, he did it. Um, that was a man of god. I don't know what the other person was, but that was just. 

0:33:53 - Maya

but I hear stories not defending it at all, but I did go to catholic school and growing up and even with me being 37, like it was a big stigma, like yeah, big stick, you did not talk about it, we did not know, like you did not, and it you know, there's a lot of things that I took from my experience of Catholicism that I still really like, but there's it's so much more progressive, you know, than it's not. Those are types of things where I just can't personally and I'm quite sure every single one of you guys listening to this feel the same way I just can't get on board with those types of stigmas or anything like that, because it's, you know, again a whole other episode. But yeah, and that's, it's old school, it's very challenging and it sounds like this guy was amazing, though the one that was he was he really did. 

0:34:42 - Linda

Thank goodness for him and for me. Like I said, I was the one who brought my brothers to church and after the loss like with suicide loss it's, I say to people, it's like the rug has been ripped out from under you and you don't even know if, like your next step, is it on solid ground or not? 

Like everything that I thought I you know that I thought I knew or I believed in, or I trusted, was just shattered. It was gone. I didn't know who to trust, who to talk to, I didn't know what I felt. Is this real, is it not? Is it like if this could happen, like who's next, like there was just so much going on that I didn't know where to go? And you know what the one place that I did was? I went back to church. Like I grew up, I went to a non-denominational church at that point and that, to me, was the only thing I knew to be true. Was there's God. Yes, I just gotta figure out like how's he to get me through and why did this happen, or whatever, but that's where I went and just I just held on, just held on. 

0:35:53 - Maya

Do you feel? Like that was helpful for you, Linda. 

0:35:56 - Linda

Do you feel like that is what got you through? I actually have a bracelet that I had made. They're just those rubber bracelets but the survivor colors, which here's a really cool story is that this year I'll be 23 or 24 years. I've been running a candlelight vigil for people that lost loved ones to suicide here in my county. So I've done a lot with my grief, lot with my grief and um. 

Before they adopted purple and turquoise as the national survivor suicide colors, they were my brother jeff's, favorite colors so whenever I did things we would do balloon releases and things that were that was our colors yeah, and I would say I had, I had a pull up there somewhere, like you know, like, yeah, so this says the bracelet says on there um, faith. Because that's all I had at that moment, like was my faith to hold on to, and that faith gave me hope. And gave me hope to like just hold on for, like at the time, like second by second and it was like minute by minute and maybe day by day, like, and gave me strength. And then the last one says love, and I feel like that's God's love for me, and then the love that I have for my, my brother, and the love that he had for me, like that's, those things are what helped me hold on. Yeah, um, but they build on each other, if that makes sense. 

0:37:26 - Maya

So 100% makes sense and thank you for sharing that. That's beautiful. 

0:37:29 - Linda

Yeah, and. 

0:37:30 - Maya

I really love about your story. It's like you've had kind of have like these spiritual signs in your story, like the guy on the plane, this particular you know priest, like he was like I'm still going to do, like I'm going to do it, and then then you have the colors, like it's just I'm really big on science, I know you are too, and I just really believe in it. And if your eyes are open to it and, more importantly, if your heart is open to it, they're there and they're already just sprinkled throughout your story and we're like probably just touching the surface. But yeah, that's, that's amazing, and I think it's really important that people have somewhere to go. And if you're someone who because I have a really great relationship with God as well and that did not happen I'm curious to ask you this. But I want to finish this really quick and just say not everybody has that particular belief and that's okay, but I think it's really important that we connect with what we do believe in after the loss. Because for me I'm curious about you, because I talk about this quite openly I was very angry, I lost all faith. 

I was like nope, I'm like how could a God do this? You know how could you know there was. It was very confused and then it kind of led me to a much deeper way of life, like I feel much deeper now. So it was like I kind of had to pull back, to kind of sling forward a little bit. But but I'm curious, linda, because you had such a strong faith before, or had faith like, did you feel that at all, or you just kind of dove right into it. Did you feel like how, like no, it's, like there's God or something bigger like this would never happen. Like what was your journey? Because I feel like that's a common thing that happens. 

0:39:07 - Linda

So like I had. I had the faith, I had the belief, um, and I was like in my mid. I was 25, I was in my mid-20s, so like I wasn't going to church, like I was before um. But I think that is what grounded me and got me back into a deeper relationship and I held on because that I really believed that that was true, like I believe that there's a God, I believe that the Bible is true, so I was just going to hold on to the only thing, like I said, that I knew was true, because everything else didn't feel right or true. That's what happened with Jeff. But then what? 20 years later, I lose Michael and that did not happen. I was angry. Let's move to that then. 

0:39:59 - Maya

Yes, let's move to that. So you had a different reaction. You dove into your faith with Jeff, but with Michael you had what a lot of us go through anger. 

0:40:09 - Linda

So, I. 

0:40:11 - Maya

I mean it's 20 years after Jeff, which is so interesting. 

0:40:15 - Linda

Um, so in 2014, you lost Michael, so tell us a little bit about that, okay so before I tell you, I just want to kind of go back and, because it'll tie it in, is that like with the sibling loss, as you know? Yeah, you lost your sibling and you talked to so many people. I felt so alone, so misunderstood, and I think we were. You know how old were you when you lost your brother? 30. 30. Okay, so close in age at the time. 

0:40:42 - Maya

I was 25. 

0:40:44 - Linda

And people just expected me to be me, go out, go do this, and I I couldn't. I was paralyzed. I was just, you know, even family, like you know, relatives, like oh, aren't you over this yet? Um, those kind of statements and like didn't? Nobody seemed to ask either how I was. It was always how, how? How's your mom, more how's your mom? My dad might have got a how's he doing every once in a while. So no one asked about me, no one really asked about Michael and you. Just I just felt lost, and 30 years ago there wasn't much out about sibling loss at all, let alone suicide loss. So as like I trying to figure things out, and then I'm. 

I ended up working with people in grief and loss after I did a lot of my own work. I kept saying I'm going to write a book. I and I start doing these worksheets and stuff with people and put it away. And it was something I was searching for was like I read a lot of books and I there was one that stuck with me my son, my son, and something you said earlier too is like I she says in there, or the priest says to her you're going to find a gift in this. She lost her son to suicide and I remember that's what I held on to. 

I was like I'm going to find a gift in this. I don't even know what that means, but it's interesting how certain things stand out to us Right. 

0:42:16 - Maya

We're like gift and that's doing the things that I do working with people doing all these community events, things like that. 

0:42:38 - Linda

That's the gift. And then there's times though, I don't want to do it Yep, fast forward to with my brother. So when I was talking about the book, I was looking for something where I could write down some of the stories I connected. But I'm not one to just journal, like I wanted someone to be able to be like today's a bad day, fill in this blank, or whatever. So, like over the years I was creating it. Finally I'll it'll tie into Michael's story. I finally did that. But then I lose Michael which, to be honest, kind of was waiting for a call. The way he lived his life, I know, but you're still never ready. No, still not ready. Yeah, and we were on this. I had kids at the time. So I had to set really good boundaries because I was like there's going to be no alcohol in my house, there's going to be like no dysfunction of any, like well, you know some dysfunction, but I really didn't want my kids but normal dysfunction, not the extreme that you grew up with. 

I understand, I didn't want my kids to even understand any of that, to even have a flavor of that. So that was kind of hard. So we were Michael and I were just again talking. He was always much better when he was medicated because he was bipolar. When he was medicated and he was incarcerated I hate to say it I would be like there's the 12 year old brother that I remember. That's like the last time I really remember having my brother, because when he's not medicated he was a mess, he was a mess and he lived with my husband and I for a while. 

I had him live with us. He was 21. And to watch him up and down with these episodes it was horrible. But fast forward. He's now living with my mom. It was a snow day, my kids were home, we were all home. I remember sitting on the couch and I see the phone, cell phones. Then I feel so old saying that I see my mom and I'm like can't be good, I don't answer it because I'm like not sure I'm going to get it. I listened to the message and I'm like crap, so I call. I could hear something like she was, like you have to call me something. I think she said about Michael and I I knew something and I call. But I was just like he's at the hospital, he's on life support and I'm like here we go again. 

0:45:06 - Maya

Oh my God, they both have life support. 

0:45:09 - Linda

Wow, yeah. So and he's in you know, the next state over Me and my husband, we, we go and I feel bad for my kids. My kids have like lived this life of like constant, like grief through me, and they were close to my brother, like when I would let him in. So that was hard. So we go and he's on life support and they're asking me all these questions do I know what drugs he was in? I'm like, well, this was his drug of choice that I know of. No, it was heroin. I'm like what? Like we were shocked because you had never known him to use heroin no he just had started. 

Wow, he had a he, a new girlfriend. That was the new thing and it was actually made not just his thing that there were like 13 deaths in like three days of this strand in where he got it from, like they were on national news, like it came from that dispatch or something. So it was like not good. So they had, you know, they did that. They put him on ice or something. And then I was like I can't believe we have to have this discussion again. Like what are we going to do? And I was like thinking my mom's going to want to do the same thing. Like hold on, do every test you can. 

And my parents are not together at this point. They weren't, you know, they were separated for years. To my surprise, michael's passing brought them back to like a mutual. They could have conversations and be in the same room together without wanting to rip each other apart. So there was a blessing. So we had a meeting, like they did everything and we had to make a decision and to my surprise, my parents were like we'll take him off. They knew Like they didn't want him to suffer. So we came in and I had my kids come in the night before to say goodbye. And then the next day it was like family, but my parents. Well, my mom invited her two siblings and their spouses. Well, my mom invited her two siblings and their spouses, and maybe this is when it started for me. 

The anger is I went to go into the family room to get myself together I don't know say a prayer. I don't know, I just needed to be away from everybody before they said you know, we're going to turn the machine off. My aunt comes in and says why aren't you there for your mother? Why aren't you there for your mother? She needs you. You don't call Like I don't. I don't even know what this woman was saying to me, but I finally have had it and said who do you think you are coming into right now? I don't know who even invited you, but I didn't. I didn't invite you to have seen my brother take his last breath. 

I said I don't know who you think you are. I don't know why you think that you know I need to do all this. I said what about me? What about me? How am I doing? Who's taking care of me? So, if you think you should I don't know what I said something about, like, if you really want to put that on me or whatever, I said you can just get out of this room now because I'm done, done, taking care of anybody. I said you should not judge me, you don't know anything about me. Like, here I am again. Then I um. Now I'm the one who arranges the funeral, I'm the one calling the pastor, I'm the one meeting with the pastor because nobody else can get their excuse, my language, shit together or hold themselves together, have a conversation with them. I'm now doing it, but I have to be there for somebody else. You hear the anger, do you hear it? I have a lot of anger around that one. 

0:48:46 - Maya

Yeah, um so I understand. I'm sure a lot of you guys understand too. I understand like, yes, this is only something that our like community can understand. Like going through, you're asked to wear so many hats, right, because they don't. People don't understand how significant the loss is for you as well. 

0:49:07 - Linda

It's just true and that's what I said. I'm like, do you understand? This is not my first. This is my second brother, right, that is on life support, and I'm losing and you haven't lost anybody and you're coming in here telling me what I need to do. I just I was glad, I was happy that I spoke up, but I have to tell you my I haven't talked to anybody since that day. Wow. 

I haven't talked to anyone in my family. No wonder you connect with my story. I told you when I messaged you I'm like, can we talk? Because I didn't even know this, at Michael's funeral, apparently a family member family members that I was really, really close to skipped me in line. There's only me and my mom and dad and I guess my husband was probably staying there. I didn't know it at the time, but it was like. 

Six months later I said to my best girlfriend I'm like I don't understand, I haven't talked to you know so-and-so and I'm like I haven't talked to anybody. And she was just like I don't talked to you know so-and-so and I'm like I haven't talked to anybody. And she was just like I don't know if you noticed, like, and then told me that and said they were all ignoring you. And I'm like what? And I'm like I went back and I was like huh, and then my pastor had said something to my husband, like, said a lot to him, and he noticed he was like, like it was just a hot. And at that point when I realized I'm like I'm no one's talking to me, like what the hell is happening here, right? And then it was two years later, not even my dad got really sick and it's just just me and he lives in Florida and I'm going to take care of him and he wanted to come home. He knew he was dying. 

I got the call the week I was going down and they were like I just want to make sure you know your dad's dying. And I didn't know and I was like do I come now? I'm coming Sunday and they were like no, you're okay, but I wanted you to know he probably doesn't have a year. He didn't even have a couple months. We're literally Maya walking out the door to go. My husband drops off, he goes into cardiac arrest. Your husband did 47. Praise God he's alive. I drive him to the hospital. It's Palm Sunday. No one's up at 5 30 in the morning. I like fly there. I'm like I run in. I'm like I think my husband's having a heart attack. Can someone come get him? I called ahead. That's what I did, and I like fly by. Time I get in there, they have him hooked up and they're like we have to take him to surgery. 

He flatlined right in front of me and I'm like yeah yeah, like I just had so much they saved his life, rush him into surgery. He goes back into surgery next day, but I had to call my dad, who I know is dying, and say we're not coming. Yeah, so like I and people knew, people knew what I was going through I'm trying to take care of my husband, I'm trying to get to see my dad. Still, no, nobody. Nobody reaches out, nothing, nothing. My dad helped raise my two uncles, my mom's brothers, and like nobody showed up, no one. So it's just after Michael. I'm not sure what happened, but like I didn't talk to really anybody and I still don't, I choose to not. Now I'm trying to kind of make amends, but I just had to set a boundary. I didn't want to be hurt anymore. So then my dad passes. Two weeks later my nephew died of an overdose, michael's son 18. 

0:52:50 - Maya

Wow. 

0:52:57 - Linda

And that's two years after michael, there's a, so I had a lot of talking answering your question I had a lot of anger. I had a lot of like disconnect. I just didn't understand, I isolated, I went down deep right and a lot of your anger, it sounds like it. 

0:53:08 - Maya

The loss was different and there's a lot of your anger. It sounds like the loss was different and there's a lot of family loss. That happened around that time too. It wasn't just Michael so much going on. And then the behavior of the family, which is like now I totally understand even more why you connect with my story. 

A lot of people reach out to me and say they connect with this part of my story because I didn't know. I'm like am I alone? Do families act inappropriate like this? It's kind of what I've discovered on this journey, Linda. Yeah, and for all of you guys who continue to listen, there's no in between. It's kind of like you've got this really wild story and we're not alone. We just all have our own unique stories or it. Can you know I have had some really incredible guests on and they tell beautiful stories about how they had kind of this grief bubble together and like they mourn together and that's all beautiful and but, like you said so well at the beginning of the episode, like you didn't come from a family like that and neither did I. I come from a lot of trauma and I come from a lot of dysfunction, and so that was definitely ignited in my brother's death and it sounds like a lot of that was ignited once again with your extended family, with Michael's death. 

0:54:16 - Linda

And that's what I think with loss in general. But like losing multiple people, multiple siblings, is like each loss. It's like you're grieving again like something new. You're at a different stage of your life, something else going on, grieving again like something new. You're at a different stage of your life, something else going on. 

But like even when my brother Jeff's dog died I'm not a dog person, love that dog, but still not a dog person I was devastated because again, it was that connection, it was another loss. Like so I think all those layers, um, yeah, just like piled up and it just just simple things, like I think that's the hard part, like on days you don't expect it, like my kids. Just recently we were all playing a game and they said I think my husband said something like oh, I can't wait for you guys, like when you have your family and you have kids. I was trying to stay grounded and I was like, oh my gosh, like I don't have that, no, have siblings and we're not doing family gatherings and I don't get to see their kids. Like, yeah, it's like a constant, you know, reminder sometimes of that. 

0:55:27 - Maya

It's these milestones right, because now you, because one day you're going to be a grandma, right, and your brothers aren't here for that right. 

So that's like a whole yeah. I mean, those are the moments and those are the things that sneak up on us and that's what I again learned to coming along this journey, like I'm like, oh, my brother's never going to meet this person or experience this with me, or and I think that is where whatever you believe in spiritually, it helps a whole lot. And so I guess a question I have for you too I have so many questions for you, linda but a question I have for you about your faith, because it is it sounds like the loss of Michael is a little more aligned with what I went through, which is again, I'm sure why we connected, but I was angry, I kind of lost. How did you come back to your faith If you were going through so much anger, like, how did you get anchored again in that? Because it was a much different journey for you with Jeff, and I think this is such a good story for people to listen to who have lost more than one sibling, because every loss is quite different. 

0:56:28 - Linda

Yeah, I feel, feel like like I was still like going to church. I was like still there. My kids went to Christian school, so I still showing up for stuff, but I was not connected. Do you know what? 

I mean, I was just walking and I I don't know when it shifted, like I would try to like maybe be reading in my Bible or the praying, but I just felt like disconnect. I wasn't blaming God, I don't think, but I just yeah, I just wasn't there. And then I don't know if it was when all that other stuff happened, like my dad and then my husband and you know how it showed up the school community, the Christian community, people, I didn't know. They were out mowing our lawn. They had these kids with them, like in my son's class. They're planting flowers, they're bringing meals. For like two, three months they were just there. They showed up and they were taking care of us and like I think that's when I saw God, like I was like he didn't leave me. You know, I think that probably was the moment, like really yeah. And then I just yeah, I mean I don't have like a. I think that was probably it. 

0:57:48 - Maya

Like when I started. 

I think that's important to talk about too, linda, because it's OK, because you know, some people have a moment and some people it's just kind of like. You know it's an evolution and that's all different types of things, with grief, right, and so I think it's. You know, it's kind of like sometimes, things you know kind of just evolve for us and they come slowly and then sometimes it's like, oh my God, the universe, god, someone had to smack me in the face. So it was very obvious what was happening, right. So I think that's important to talk about too. 

But I love that you mentioned that it was these particular people that kept showing up, and I think that's why it's so important. It's why I continued this podcast and went on to do a season two, and now we're in season five and I'll continue to do it is because I found a community, and all of you guys are finding this community, and it's really interesting because the friends that I had for so many years weren't really the people that helped me together. It's been this community that's helped me together through this experience. 

0:58:46 - Linda

And it's interesting it is, and that kind of I know we only have a little time left, but kind of what I you know, I'm hoping people will, even with all this loss, that they will know there is hope. And I think when you found hope, it sounds like, and where I found hope too, was in this community, and for me it was. I did go back to grad school and that's that year. I poured my grief into grad school and every paper had to do with suicide and you know, however, I could tie it in. 

That's what I did, but it was the one thing I said. This will be the one thing I deal with, because my family didn't deal with anything. So I got in counseling, I found a group and through that I started getting connected to these these other things. So I got involved, went to these conferences and it was 14 months out and I was at a conference in New York City for survivors that lost loved ones to suicide and there was an actress. She was up there talking, mariette Hartley, an older actress. I didn't even know who she was, but we kind of looked alike and she must have said something. I went up I'm not shy introduced myself and I was just like thank you, I lost my brother. I don't know what I said. And 10 minutes later she's like you need to come up here and share your story. Somehow she convinces people run this conference. I had to share. 

1:00:06 - Maya

What. 

1:00:07 - Linda

There were like 400 people there in New York City I got up there and I shared my story. 

I still have it written. I tried to write on the back of the paper. I still have that of like an outline. I got up and I felt good to talk, I guess, and then I realized why am I coming to New York for this? So I was like we need AFSP here. So through that I made calls and we got a chapter started. They have a great organization, like I was one of the founding board members here and got involved in another organization that was from Atlanta. I love people down South, I got to say. I always said I met so many people from Georgia with this loss, this loss, with the suicide loss. They had an organization down there, got involved in that, started the. I was a quilt organizer for them. 

Um, then started a task force here in our area and I wanted a candlelight vigil. In order to have that, I had to have a task force. I don't know did it. I'm not like I'd like to start things and then leave, I think, because I'm I still support them, but I'm not other than the candlelight. I do that. So that's where I think I turn, like my grief, into helping other people, like you're doing, and started the conferences here. We don't have to go to New York, so now we have them here in Philly. We had like a couple of years after that, we had, you know, we got sponsors, and now we have our Survivor Day every year here in Philly. We had like a couple of years after that, we had, you know, we got sponsors, and now we have our survivor day every year here in Philly. So there is stuff that we can do with our grief. 

I feel guilty because I feel like I did all this stuff with suicide and nothing for Michael, so guilt loves to just roll into that. But it's not true. I have done things. It's just that is a big thing. And the one thing talking about faith how this all ties back in is that I wanted to get out of this. I was like I'm done. I'm done, you know, I'm done working with trauma. I'm done. I want to do more like lighter topics, but I love working with athletes and have worked with athletes and I wanted to do that was at a conference the last day and I'm like yep, got it, like going to do it was all about starting the podcast and like going in this new direction and YouTube all that and how I can do it. 

This speaker got up. He started talking. When I tell you and I've never had an experience like this God talked to me. He didn't say Linda, like that, but I heard him loud and clear. My body felt like something I don't know. Tears started coming. I literally dropped everything. Luckily I was virtual in the conference. I dropped to the ground, I was like I hear you and he was like you are not done with this yet. 

He was like that book you started years ago. You'll pick up and do again. And that night I started writing. 

1:03:00 - Maya

Wow, how long ago was that. 

1:03:03 - Linda

So two years ago and it took about. So I wrote all summer, so it was May. How was it Two years May? And then in October I did. It was like for suicide loss. I'm going to be redoing it. So this is like a workbook and journal. So like the first half is some educational, like what grief is, how suicide loss is different, but there's also prompts and like questions people can answer about that, like whatever that section is, and checklists like what shock depression, like it goes through. So it's educational, but also you're going to be able to process your own stuff. And then the second half is more of like a journal. You could put pictures or spots. There's also like oh, you know, it takes secondary losses. I have that in there. Self-care um, today's a bad day, today's a good day. This happened. I wanted to tell you like there's different pages. So I was able, I did that. That's what I wanted when I went through it. 

1:04:04 - Maya

But I couldn't find anything. So I finally, the best things, come right and tell us the name for everyone, just listening. 

1:04:11 - Linda

So this one's Mending Piece by Piece After Suicide Loss. It's a guided grief workbook and journal to heal the survivor's heart. And then I went back to work to do Mending Piece by Piece, a workbook and journal Navigating Grief with Hope. So it's very similar but it's not just geared towards suicide and it has some different things in it, like there's a whole like section on the different losses caregiver loss, sibling loss, parent loss, loss of a child, loss of a spouse, so very specific because I work with a lot of people that have these different losses. So there are some different sections in there. But the second half is pretty much all the same and that is April. April 5th will be out. 

1:05:00 - Maya

It'll be out. 

1:05:00 - Linda

I mean I have a copy, but so it. Yeah, he wasn't finished. I guess I'm not finished. 

1:05:08 - Maya

I don't think you are, because you found me and you're on the show and you found the community, and we're going to see you at the summit, of course, too. So when you guys are listening to this, it will be right around the corner and your book will already be out. It'll be on Amazon, right? Yeah, amazon. 

1:05:24 - Linda

Barnes Noble TikTok. Actually, hopefully I'm going to have it at some other stores because I have the. They would be local but they're the main places. Or they could always contact me because I have some. I could always just send them right out. And because of you, Maya, giving me the courage and, I think, God saying time to keep moving, I finally did hit record and started the podcast, and it's going to be called the same thing. I'm so proud of you Mending piece by piece. Yeah, because I'm not the only one. 

1:05:56 - Maya

And when does your first episode air? Do we have a date yet for it? 

1:05:59 - Linda

Linda, I do. It's the last Tuesday in March and I forget the date offhand. 

1:06:07 - Maya

That's perfect. It'll be out when you guys hear this episode, so that's perfect. So we will. We'll include the link to the books, we'll include the link to the podcast and you guys can check it out. Tell us a little bit about what will you, what will you be talking about specifically on your podcast, linda? Cause you've had such an experience Like yeah, I know, wow, 30 years. 

1:06:26 - Linda

I feel like it's a lifetime movie, yeah, um, so I'm going to share my story. 

Uh, there's, because there's so much, so much more so much yeah, so much more, but I think what I'm going to do is like interweave it, because I do. I already have people lined up that want to come and talk about their loss. Different I wouldn't talk it's all things loss, basically because people are grieving over, you know, relationship breakups or loss of a job, or so I'm gonna it's you know, basically it's gonna be. We're gonna talk about loss raw, real. We're just gonna talk about it because people don't like talking about, which is so odd when we all are going to face loss at some point. 

1:07:10 - Maya

Absolutely but people don't have many piece by piece. 

1:07:13 - Linda

I love that name, like yeah, and we're not the same we're, you know we're. I like how you always say moving forward. I love that because we are how are we going to move forward? Like you know, and it's just, we do, yeah. 

1:07:28 - Maya

And I think you're a beautiful example of this. You are much further along in your journey and you know, I'm seven years in and I feel like I have so far to go. And it's interesting because, you know, a year into this I didn't think I was going to make it. I just really didn't think I was going to make it. It makes me emotional to say that Like I get really raw on these episodes and it makes me emotional because I didn't think I was going to make it and I did, but I still have a long road ahead and I think sometimes that can be really scary for people because they're like, like you said so perfectly earlier, you know there's like Linda before and Linda after and like now there's multiple versions of you because you have all these significant losses. 

1:08:07 - Linda

Yeah. 

1:08:08 - Maya

And that's a whole other like onion to peel and peel back Right, what you're going to do on your show it sounds like, which is incredible, and I'm so excited to listen to it and share with all of you guys. But you're right, I mean, that's the other thing too is all these other losses that we go through, these secondary losses, where they feel just as real. And then for people, I love that you're going to be talking about things like job loss and, just you know, losing a relationship or divorce or things like that, because that's loss too and it's just different. It's not, you know, it's just different. And we need to talk about these things. And you're right, people don't talk about them enough. So I'm so excited for you. 

1:08:47 - Linda

That's amazing, thank you, and I think too, with loss, it like it. I just think it's just multilayered, like we, when you have a loss and then there's another one, like there's just so much that that people experience and people feel like they're all alone, and that's the one thing I want the listeners to know that they're not alone. Like you know, reach out to somebody like me or you, or you're not alone, you will make it. And speaking on like seven years, that's the and I've heard people on your show say to like it depends. Everybody's journey is unique. I wish I could say do one, two, three and you'll get through. But I want to also tell people you're going to it's okay to laugh, it's okay to smile, it's okay to go have a good time, don't feel guilty. But it's okay to say no, it's okay to change your mind and be like I want to get bed and pull the covers over my head because you don't feel like it that day. And like there's no right or wrong with grief and the timeline. There's no end. We're just going to continue to grieve. It just looks different, feels different, and I know for me. 

You said year seven. I can't remember that, but I remember year 13. I don't know why was it was like it happened all over again. Yeah, flashbacks, like nightmares. It was so, people, some of that's normal. It's just not to be afraid to embrace it and then go like that was another time back in therapy. Let's go deal with this again on a different you know, it's just a different layer maybe. Yeah, there's in between, there's lots of times that there's a lot of good things too. 

1:10:27 - Maya

There's in between, there's lots of times that there's a lot of good things too, yeah, and I think it's important we talk about that because that gives people hope, right. And you know, I think we get really stuck in all the negative and, of course, this is like the worst thing that you've ever been through, you know, and hopefully it's the worst thing you'll ever go through. But you may go through more loss, like your story, linda, and you know it's, it's part of life, but we can do it together and like building community and support and like ultimately, as humans, we don't want to feel like we're alone. Having an experience like it's. This is not an experience where you want it to be. This was so unique and it only happened to me. We don't want to feel that way, naturally, as humans want to feel connected yeah yeah, we do well, linda. 

This has been such a beautiful episode. Thank you so much for sharing jeff michael, your family, your story just so openly. I think again, multi-loss is it comes up a lot. You've seen you. You hang out on tiktok with me too, so you know it comes up lot. There's a lot of us out here that have lost more than one sibling, which just always blows my mind. It's so much. 

So thanks for sharing that and we're going to put everything in the show notes where they can find your book, your podcast, where they can find you. But tell us really quick where's the best way for them to find you on website socials and of course, we'll put it in the show notes too. 

1:11:47 - Linda

Best place, I guess by well. My website's probably changing, so I shouldn't say that I'm in the process of getting a new website, so probably TikTok, which is Mending Piece by Piece, or Instagram. It's my name, really. If you look up Linda Falascao L-C-S-W, that's my name, really. If you look up Linda Felasco LCSW that's the difference that would be. You would find me Instagram, facebook, linda Felasco LCSW. I have a page for that and Instagram TikTok. I think it's under the same thing, but it's under Mending Piece by Piece, and my website right now is the same name. I'm just I'm trying to switch it over and see if I can keep the name the same know they're going to be so helpful. 

1:12:49 - Maya

It just reminds me so much of myself, like I just created a grief guide, just a simple grief guide for us, because I was like there was nothing out there. Yours is incredible because, I mean, linda is therapist, you specialize in this, so I can't wait to get this out there to help everyone. Thank you so much for being here, linda. Thanks for watching.