A Firefighter's Eternal Flame

0:00:01 - Maya

Hey guys, welcome back to the Surviving Siblings podcast. Today I have, of course, another incredible surviving sibling with me. I want to welcome Katie to the show. Katie welcome, Hi. Thank you so much for having me. It's absolutely my pleasure and I'm really, really looking forward to taking off the season with your story and Patrick's story. So why don't you tell us a little bit about your childhood, tell us a little bit about Patrick, and then we'll get into Patrick's story? Okay? 

0:00:32 - Katie

So, patrick, I'm the oldest and then I'm Patrick's the baby, and I just remember my mom and dad telling me that, hey, we're going to have a baby. I didn't know so it was going to be a brother or a sister, so that was a surprise when he was born. But they talked to me about being a big sister, no matter what the baby is and how important that job was. So I literally took it like this is my duty in life. Patrick was born and he I thought it was just perfect. He was my little baby, he was just full of life. He was born the day before St Patrick's Day, so he always thought his ears would get pointy towards St Patrick's taking his birthday, because he was a little leprechaun, he was just full of life, he loves sport and just a fun little kid. And in kindergarten he decided once a fire truck came. That's when he decided he wanted to be a fireman. And ever since he was in kindergarten, that's all he talked about was being a fireman or a baseball player, but mainly a fireman. 

0:01:43 - Maya

Wow, so he knew really young. Yeah, this was his path. Yeah, I love that. 

0:01:47 - Katie

Yes, that's so cool. Yeah, that's very cool, it was really cool. 

0:01:51 - Maya

Yeah, so I think that's always so interesting. I connect so much with your story, katie, because one like I'm the oldest as well. Yeah, we're from the same age too, right, and I know what that's like, and I have a sister who's 10 years younger than me, and I know what that's like to have a sibling come along and your parents are like, hey, you take it so seriously, you're like their other parents, it's a big responsibility. So I definitely get that. So tell us a little bit about and I'm the oldest of four. 

0:02:19 - Katie

So I totally get to go on, you do. It's a lot of his own familiarity. 

0:02:24 - Maya

Yeah, it really is. So tell us a little bit about how Patrick evolved, because he knew very early on like he was into baseball and firetrucks and he goes the fireman route. So tell us how that happened for him. 

0:02:37 - Katie

So he basically evolved in just well. He kept in the sports in school and then when it became college time he basically just signed up for I think it was Wildland Fire first and that was in Reedley, and then he did that for a little bit and then he decided he wanted to change it more to a city fire. So that's where he attended Portbell City College and did the fire academy and then during this time period he would visit each station in our little city and go and hang out and talk to the chiefs and just kind of say, hey, I'm Patrick and this is what I want to be, and show me what it's like in here. So he kind of he was a hustler and like going to different stations and like really wanting to know the grunt work and how it operates and everything, and in the meantime he's doing the fire. So he was just very driven and I love that. 

And after the academy you become a reserve. So he became a reserve with Portaville Fire and Jess he literally had the most hours ever in the history for Portaville, for reserve hours and you don't get paid. He just wanted to, he wanted to be there all the time. He wanted to be a fireman, not bad and like that was history. So yeah, that's amazing. 

0:04:01 - Maya

Yeah, he makes me feel like fired up, right. Wow, that must have been so cool for you as his older sister like to watch him do that, where you just I mean I can tell you're so proud. But you must just be like, wow, like this kid is like really motivated he is so motivated and to see his mindset and like go full force. 

0:04:21 - Katie

It was like, oh, look at you, go little PD, like I'd shared him on his biggest fan and I just and still to this day, that's, you know, that's what keeps me going is like the drive of her life and for his passion, and that, you know, it's just so inspiring. And he would say, you know, this is my job, this is my hobby, Like how lucky am I to be doing my hobby every day? You know, so that I thought that was pretty cool. 

0:04:47 - Maya

You just gave me chills because my brother said something very similar about his music to me. So yeah, that's very weird. 

0:04:52 - Speaker 3

Yeah. 

0:04:53 - Maya

And very cool. And like again, I feel like the theme for the season, like what a great way for us to kick off, because the theme for the season really is connection. And here's another example Like we're all, I really find that we all connect, especially all of us who have lost siblings. Like, yeah, and I feel like this happens for other types of loss too right, yeah, within the community, you can all, we're kind of all interwoven, we all connect in different ways and there's so many things about your story that I can connect with them. So, yeah, we're going to connect with as well, or already have, and I think it's just while. It's the worst thing that's ever happened to me, as I'm sure yourself. It's also something where you know if we can find connection and community, it's a beautiful thing. So, right away, that's again. When I hear things like that, I'm like I just get chills and I feel like it's my brother's feeling this. 

Yes, yes, he sure is for sure, and I feel like Patrick has too. Yes, so that's amazing. Like he's super driven he's. So tell us a little bit about how he got into what was next for him. He got into a particular position. I don't know a lot about the environment, so I'm really curious. What was next? Okay, all these volunteer hours. I'm blown away. 

0:06:02 - Katie

Yeah, so it's all the reserve hours and then the reserve hours. You have so many like I think it's two days a week or whatever, but he was there literally every single day. He was even sleeping his truck even on not the reserve hours, because he wanted to be there. He didn't want to miss the opportunity on not learning. And so, after reserve, if you become a probation, so probation's kind of, do all the groundwork, like you get your captain's coffee at three and you do like all the things. You don't get a watch TV with the guys. It sounds weird, but it's like that's just probation, you know, and you basically clean the equipment and everything. 

So he goes from probation then hired on. And so he got hired on and so he reserve 2015, hired on 2017,. He was announced to the city and crazy thing is is when he was announced to the city, it was like February, well, 2017, then he died February 18. 2020, like that's just kind of weird to me, you know. But then is where? Yeah, yeah, but yeah, so that was the next step. 

So he got on, hired on and out to the city, which was awesome to watch. Just the pride and like the look in his face was like I made it and I was just holding back all the tears, you know, because I just want to run and give him such a big hug. But he's up there and proud and and then after that, you do, you keep doing so much training and you go, you go to LA, you go to your cities and just keep up on your logs and trainings. And he was working on being an engineer. Net is his, so goes firefight, probation, firefighter, engineer, captain, and so most of their goals are to be all of them. You know one time. 

0:07:57 - Maya

So and yeah, that's kind of it's almost like you're interning like you know, like it out in like the corporate role that is, like you're interning or like or like in the frat world. 

0:08:08 - Katie

Maybe it's kind of like hazing in the middle of the stuff you want to do Exactly. Yeah, I've never known. Yeah, it's an amazing world. 

0:08:17 - Maya

Yeah, yeah, that is cool. Yeah, that is very interesting that he had his ceremony. Yeah, like three years later. Yeah, of course we're going to talk about yeah died. 

And so it's interesting when we look back on our stories and we tell our stories, like when we see these dates and they seem like, oh, that was actually probably a little more significant, or maybe they become more significant, right, right, yeah, interesting. We hope you're enjoying this incredible episode of the surviving Slippings podcast. I'm your host, maya Roffler. We'll be back in just a minute after hearing from our incredible sponsor. 

0:09:01 - Speaker 3

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0:10:46 - Maya

So he gets announced to the city, so he's in his job and he's loving it for three years. 

0:10:50 - Katie

I'm assuming. 

0:10:51 - Maya

Yes, oh, my gosh like yeah, yeah, he absolutely yeah. So tell us a little bit about what that life was like for him. He was just happy. He was, you know, did you guys live close to each other? Were you interacting with him a lot? What was that like? 

0:11:08 - Katie

Oh, yeah, we definitely talked every single day and then we, when he got off shift, he would make sure he would call me on his way home just to like, hey, I'm on my way home. Actually, he would typically FaceTime me. So once he got home, hey, I'm home and let's go for a car ride. And so we always like to go and just kind of relax, listen to music and just kind of just have our deep conversations at the car, and so we would just do whatever when he got off work. But we interact all the time, even when he was at the station. If I called him and he one time he was like on a call on the way, like the lights and sirens are going off, and I didn't obviously know. But he answered the phone and like what's happening over there? He's like come on, wait, I'll call, but I just want to make sure you're okay. And I'm like no, I'm fine, but you just go ahead, call me later. You know, just always we're just very, very close, so it's kind of an inseparable. So it's hard for him to be. 

I saw you in Portaville. It was about 40 minutes away, so it's in far away. When it was and holidays were different because you he wasn't always here, because he was working, so that they're on 48 hours and then off four days and then on 48 out for. So it's just kind of how the shift works and a lot of the younger guys like probation or new firefighters and would have to do all the holidays and the captains and other older firemen would get the holidays off. Yeah, yeah, they've done the time, they've done the families, now, exactly, yeah. So as you just kind of become part of that, you just give us that life, you know. 

0:12:51 - Maya

Yeah, I just I love like hearing that he loved what he was doing so much, like that's such a like beautiful part of this story. Yeah, I think it's so cool. I always find it so interesting when people know so young to just to go back to what we were mentioning earlier, and then he like I don't know, sometimes I'm like, is there a spiritual aspect to this? Like, do we like some people just come onto this like planet knowing what they want to do, and I think that's really cool, because my life has been totally different. It's just been an evolution. 

0:13:19 - Katie

Mine too, Mine too. That's why I'm like dang, this is amazing yeah. 

0:13:24 - Maya

It's firing up so cool, yeah, so were you with him in this position and like, loving what he was doing, and were you freaked out as his older sister, like were you nervous about it or did that really occur to you? I'm always curious when people have anyone in general but we have siblings that are military, police firemen, things like this because they are in, you know, a dangerous job. Like what were you thinking in those years? 

0:13:54 - Katie

So in these years I knew his job was dangerous, um, but he would always tell me like I'm so safe, I do these things, don't worry about me. And um, but when you would go to out of county so out of counties, when there's wildfire and all like the little towns, like they've burned, you know to, you probably see them on the news in California, oh, yeah, okay. So he was at a lot of those and that made me really that those times I was really scared because I thought that was more dangerous than city and honestly it's both. But, yeah, so I, when he would be out of county, I wouldn't be able to sleep, I would just be on pins and needles, and so I never honestly thought anything. I guess I just never thought anything could would happen. 

Um, maybe because he had. He always made sure that I felt that he was so safe and now, looking back, he's always been my protector and I think that's what he was trying to do, to be honest. So, um, yeah, when it did happen, I was, I was lured, of course, yeah, Of course yeah. 

0:15:07 - Maya

It's interesting to you because it's like you know he's still. I go through this too, because my brother was younger than me, and so, even though he was younger than me, a brother is still a brother right, they're very protective yeah. And so what's interesting in your story is that Patrick that was just who he was and is right is. I mean, this is the job he also chose. 

0:15:27 - Katie

Right yeah. 

0:15:28 - Maya

Like the career you know. It's kind of in his blood, so tell us a little bit about I mean, we're talking at exactly the time. It was four years ago. 

0:15:37 - Katie

Okay. 

0:15:38 - Maya

So take us through what happened four years ago, katie, and I can see why you feel the way that you feel, because you were so worried about the wildfires and California and all of that. But actually what happened to him was in the city. 

0:15:51 - Katie

It was totally different, so tell us about that. So let me start by saying his station 71 is literally backed up to the library. They don't share a wall but you can walk down that little access street, but yeah, it's so close. So the alarms went off at 415 and for a fire inside the library and they got in their truck and literally two seconds drove there and an officer came running out of the building and I saw the body cam in court. So I'm kind of like replaying this all in my head for you guys. And the fire was started in the kids section, so under a gazebo with stuffed animals. It was like a little preschool section and there were actually kids and classes and everything going on at this library at this time. It's such an active library. It's a really, really neat thing to see, because that's not normal. I don't know if your town libraries are active, but this one it's amazing. 

0:16:56 - Maya

There's one in the city that is, and that's about it. But it's not like typical libraries and like towns around Atlanta and stuff, or even major, it's not typically so. It is a beautiful thing to see. Yeah, I get what you're saying. 

0:17:08 - Katie

Yeah. So the officer came out and told Patrick was talking to him like hey, the fire's back in the corner in the kids section, we've got this. And when he was talking to Patrick, another officer came to Captain Grigoroa and was saying there's a handicapped lady missing inside second floor. So change of plans and gear it up in their oxygen like turn out all the things to get into a burning building. And they went in there and being fueled by a book and the stuffed animals and all you know, all the fire hazard, and it just got so smoky. 

The fire was just honestly the worst. A lot of firemen I've ever even seen her been in and then they were searching. It was so smoky they got turned around and they would radio in and say hey, we're right here by the stairs because they could fill the stairs, but their cameras weren't saying anything and basically they couldn't find the lady. Turns out that she already got out but they ran out of air. So there's a made a call and they ran out of air and by the time you know they could get to the captain. Once you run out of air it's kind of you suffocate. So they're trying to revive the captain but put in, and then the building started collapsing and then Patrick went missing, and for 36 hours, and so yeah. 

0:18:50 - Maya

Yes, yes, and this. And so they were searching for a handicapped child and could not find the child, and this is what happened A handicapped lady up there. 

0:18:57 - Katie

A handicapped lady up there, yeah. 

0:19:00 - Maya

Yeah. 

0:19:02 - Katie

But she did get out, because there are stairs up top and I guess an officer went upstairs from that bath and got her out and nobody, nobody related to them. I don't know. It was really a chaotic mess. One of communication, which was awful, you know, and yeah, so that's how he lost his life in the fire. 

0:19:26 - Maya

Now tell us your perspective and your side, because you obviously saw the body can't put a choice to that and that's what you're sharing. Yeah, yeah, I can't even imagine we're going to talk about your experience and seeing that, but tell us about how you found out about this. Like you know, we all talk about this is the call. Yeah, who called you? Who told you about this? Because he was missing for 36 hours. So, okay, walk us through your side of it. I'm really curious and I'm sure you guys are chill what that was like. 

0:19:55 - Katie

So I was folding laundry and I never really turned on the TV at night time, like it was like 8.30 and I was just kind of wanted to, you know, get ready for bed and whatnot. So but I just turned on the TV, the news popped on and it said Portaville Library fire one dead, one missing. And immediately my heart just saying because I just knew he was the missing one, and it was weird I these tears so big and heavy just falling from my face and like oh my gosh, he's missing. And I tried calling my parents, my brother Gregory Nobody was answering, so I knew something had to be going on and so they were all trying to figure out too. I called Patrick's phone. That just was going to voicemail, which was weird because it's not normal. And so I just kept waiting by the phone and pacing and pacing, and during this time the chaplain and a captain were at my parents' home telling them that Patrick was missing. So they couldn't really sit on the news until they talked to the family. So after that they went to my house. My mom called me and said, hey, we're heading to your house and I was like, okay, but why don't you tell me why you're coming to my house, you know, because it was late like what's happening? She's like no, I'll just tell you when we get there. I said no, no, no, you just got to tell me right now, like what's going on. We'll talk about whatever we get here, but like, just tell me now. And I remember I sat down on the couch when she told me Patrick's missing, I shot up like Tigger, like no, and I just paced, paced, paced, like this can't be happening, you know. 

So then, integrated what my parents and Gregory got to my house and we talked about him missing and what the chathlin and what the captain said and what to kind of prepare for, and honestly I just thought, okay, but he has oxygen, right, like he can make it out as he gets in a little hole, like he's the baby, he knows how to hide in holes. He was creative, you know, growing up, like you know try and climbing trees and whatnot. And they were like no, he's not, it's like he's not going to make it. So that was hard to grasp too. It was like if you have oxygen, why can't you make it? But I didn't understand the dynamics and how it all works. But that's how I found out. And then they said that they had to call off the search for one materially because of the building collapsing and unsafe to go in for anybody. And then that. But they kept keeping us updated every 30 minutes to an hour of what's happening and when the search would resume. 

0:23:07 - Maya

Wow, I can't even imagine. And what you're describing sounds a lot like it was kind of like bargaining in a sense. Right, it's kind of like, but if this could happen, this could happen and this could be, this could be. And it's interesting because, listening to your story, katie, I you know, I often tell people I'm like I don't think I really went through that experience, but I do think, in reflection, there was a very short period for me when I was driving to the hospital to see my brother, where I was like maybe there's some rare thing they can do to, like, you know, help him and take note. And there absolutely wasn't, there wasn't. 

But there's things that happen in those times where we're like, but miracles happen, like this can happen. Yeah, and I'm for this part of your story as well, I'm sure a lot of you too as well. And so what? So 36 hours of just pure I'm just, I can't even imagine. Right, it's just the worst feeling after, yeah, it's a weird feeling and you're trying to give yourself hope. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So tell us how the 36 hours concludes. Like what, what happens to somebody come to your door, to somebody say, you know, okay, this, like we found him, like what happened? 

0:24:17 - Katie

So they so during this time period and I'll try to paint like a really good picture for you guys and yeah, all firemen were still standing by and we also had help from all like how fire all different city fires, not just port of tell because it was so massive, um, but in firefighters, like, no one leaves a brother behind. So they all set up and they were all waited for him and there was a search team. Once they could resume, they brought a dog in from LA Um, I believe her name was Roxy on a helicopter. They brought her in. Yeah, I looked it up and I'm like I have to think this Um, so they, yeah, they brought her in and searched for him and they ended up finding him. 

So once they found the scent, they immediately called my dad and said, hey, we got a scent on him and we're going to start digging the metal off is what they said. And so, um, that was weird. I'm like metal, like I I guess you know you don't really think I just always sounded like come on, let's go, like you know, um, but yeah, they had a dick metal off which took six hours to get off because also there was so much on him and, um, they wanted to obviously be very careful. Um, but the amount of metal on him, gosh, if you were in a regular size like a bedroom and not vaulted, so it was just a regular. It was all the way up to the ceiling it was. I saw the pile when we arrived and it was just like eight foot or 10 foot. 

0:26:03 - Maya

So yeah, yeah, oh my gosh, yeah, that's the amount of metal. 

0:26:07 - Katie

That's insane, wow. Um. So they got him out and I heard undog him and, um, they kept us updated like every with that point. It was like every two hours. And then, um, the last hour that they called, they said okay, he's going to. We almost got him, I would see his, we see his clothes turn out, and so why don't you guys just get in your car head this way? 

And I think that we had to be at the police station close to the fire station, um, in PortaVille, and we got there at 4am. So, um, we arrived at 4am while they're, you know, doing the final touches on him and, um, they were sitting and talking to us in the office and saying listen, this is what's going to happen. And the whole thing was just the real, like I'm just trying to process, like the metals on him, and then this and that he's missing, and so I'm trying to listen and, um, they said, okay, so here's what's going to happen. You're going to walk out this back door and I'm going to guide you and it's going to be very smoky, which it was. It was just full of smoke and, um, and please don't look to the left because there's a lot of debris and metal that was taken from him and I honestly like that was hard because I'm going to look. I want to know what was on him, right. 

0:27:41 - Maya

I mean probably should have told me, just make sure you look, and then you probably wouldn't have looked. Yeah right, it's like we're worse than gology, right, yeah, yeah. 

0:27:49 - Katie

So, um, as we're walking out, it's so smoky and there's a giant flag hanging um down from a ladder fire ladder. And I looked at all that metal and I was just, oh my, like I couldn't. It took my breath away. Like this, all of this was on my baby, Like that's how I thought it, you know. And then I looked down the way and both sides of the road were lined up with personnel on each side officers, firemen, um, the dog on the end, and um, they were all saluting and we got down and there's a van like, uh, um, the war, the word van, or I think that's what it's called, the sheriff's van, and um at the end. 

So we walked close to the van, they walked us to the van and we still had a ways to go and, um, all of a sudden, and now it's like about five, and so, all of a sudden, trumpet start praying, the bad pipes start playing, amazing grace. And then I'm like what is happening? Like where's Pat? Like this, I had no idea. All of a sudden, I see from the back of the library building, um, uh, the flag, the end of the flag, and then they were carrying him out with amazing grace, bad pipe in front of him and that was like the longest walk because at 36 hours it was so crazy missing him. And then, like you know, when you miss you want to run to them, right, you stay at first, like let me go hug you, but you can't. And he's being carried out by six of his brothers who, under a flag, into and then we get him to the van and then that's just kind of how we get him back from the library. 

0:29:46 - Maya

That is such an emotional experience. 

0:29:50 - Katie

Yeah, it is. 

0:29:50 - Maya

Thank you for sharing that with me, yeah, yeah, you describe it very well and I think it's is very difficult I know first hand to do that. So, thank you, I'm like getting emotional listening to you. Do you feel like that was the moment when it sank in, that he was gone? Do you feel like up until that moment, you kind of had a false hope? Or what were your feelings? Because for me, I went through a lot of different emotions in my journey. Yeah, there are moments where it was just way too surreal, and then there were moments where like, ok, this is really happening. 

0:30:24 - Katie

Yeah. 

0:30:25 - Maya

Was that? That must have been a big moment for you. 

0:30:27 - Katie

That was a big moment. Um I it was so surreal, though I still I guess I couldn't grasp and believe that this was really happening. And I remember standing there and I seeing him under the flag and I'm like, oh my gosh, that's my brother, like I don't know. What I was thinking is that I was going to get to see him, and I guess I was holding on to hope that they found him and he's just going to come walking out like hey guys, I'm here, you know, but no, and then after that, and so from Portaville to Tulare to get to the morgue is 45 minutes, so they had closed down the highway and I didn't know this. And so, as we're driving and being escorted by place and firemen, and you have people lined up saluting him the whole way, there I go. Yeah, she had to make like it's amazing. 

Yeah, kids made signs. They were little kids who are doing flags, salute, like what it was so. So all of that whole thing was surreal. And then when I got to where we got to the word and we got to go in there with him and I remember touching his arm and I and I still can feel that feeling, but I just, I think I was still in shock of like, oh gosh, I. 

0:31:52 - Maya

He's still covered by the flag. When you got to the morgue he was, he was still covered by the flag yeah. 

0:31:57 - Katie

And I listed up the flag and wanted to touch his arm. 

0:32:03 - Maya

You know, did I know this was going to be part of the story. You are so like me, girl. Yes, Like I have to. So you're there and you lift up the flag. Yeah. 

0:32:12 - Katie

I just like his arm, yeah, and there's two. So there's two honor guards standing on each side of him. So, like I said, they never leave. It's always they don't want to leave a brother behind. So, even in all the things that happen after that, there is two honor guards with him. So I'm like, oh gosh, I hope I don't get in trouble, but honestly I don't. It's my brother. Like I want to, I really just want to step up and I'm honestly and I don't didn't know if I could do that so I'm like I'm just going to touch his arm, you know. So that's what I did. I just remember walking out and that door closing and I'm like, oh my, like this is weird, like you're never going to see him again. 

0:32:54 - Maya

So I was he was he. His head was covered by helmet. I'm assuming Right. Yes so there and they didn't remove anything. 

0:33:01 - Katie

Yeah, on, ok so yeah, we've learned later on after and how he was found, that normally when. So one of the fire guys was like can I talk, call my mom? And said, hey, you know, this is something I think that you should really know. How he was found with all the when we took off the metal and this was later on, like a year later. But he was just laying on his heart of like what you know, seeing people fall from two stories it shouldn't look like this, but everything was perfectly on him, even as radio was like. Everything was placed ever so gently. It was he's like. It didn't look like he fell, but he did. And to have no burn marks no, he had a little little bump on his head but he had a hell of a on still and all his face mask and everything. So, yeah, no burn mark or anything. 

0:33:54 - Maya

And from up the odd top they said yeah, and so this particular fellow co-worker was like I wanted to share this with you. Yeah, what's? 

0:34:05 - Katie

not, and because they've never seen a later? Yeah, they've never seen anything like that, because only when people fall, their stuff is scattered everywhere and they look like they fell. But he looked like he was placed there and everything was just like next to him or on him. That makes sense. 

0:34:28 - Maya

Wow, yeah, it makes sense what you're describing, but how did that happen? That's pretty odd, I don't know. 

0:34:33 - Katie

I know yeah, interesting, interesting. 

0:34:37 - Maya

Well, so tell us so. You walk out of the room and you're having that moment which I connect with so deeply, and I'm sorry, you guys do it as well where you're like, I'm not going to see his physical body. 

0:34:47 - Katie

And like this is like a moment. 

0:34:50 - Maya

Yeah, what happened next for you guys? I mean, what is next at the scene? I hope it's such a big moment. 

0:34:56 - Katie

Yeah. So after that I literally, well, I mean, I went home and I'm just crying Like I didn't. We're just trying to figure out things of how, because now you have to plan a funeral and all the things right, but I just like literally wanted to die. That couldn't understand of how I was supposed to live without him. Like I literally asked the pastor and now it was my life coach, but in the kitchen I'm like, well, how do I even breathe? Like how do I live? Like how, how am I going to wake up tomorrow? Like like there's no point, you know. So, um, yeah, that's just, but I kind of had to and obviously I was breathing, but I just, you know, it's just like, how do you do this thing without him? Because it felt like if he's not here, then I don't know how to do it right, so it feels like you're making your body breathe it feels like you're making. 

0:35:57 - Maya

Yeah, you're so exhausted, like I'm again connecting so much with what I'm sure you guys have felt this too Like it feels like you're making your body do it. We all know if you just chill out, your body will breathe on its own. Yeah, the heart keeps beating on its own, unless you do die, right? Yeah, but it feels like you're making all of those things happen because you're so exhausted and in shock and yeah, so I connect with that. 

0:36:18 - Katie

Yeah, yeah, yeah, gosh, we have a lot, we connect on a lot of things here, yeah. 

0:36:24 - Maya

Yeah, these are common things that you know come up a lot to you. 

0:36:27 - Speaker 3

Yeah. 

0:36:28 - Maya

And I think they're just not talked about enough. I just really appreciate how open you are about it, because it is something that we all feel. We're like. How are how am I supposed to go to sleep again? How am I supposed to wake up again? How am I supposed to predict the kids Right? Well, I'm breathing right now, but no, how am I supposed to go to sleep? Right, Because when you start thinking about it, you know Right. Yeah, I'm so curious. What did your pastor say to you when you said that? 

0:36:52 - Katie

I remember her looking at me and she said I'm going to help you so. And then and I thought that was kind of an odd answer because I'm like, want that now, but she, so she's because we were in the midst of the kitchen and she stepped me aside and she said let's practice breathing right now. And like we did deep breaths and everything, which is interesting because my brother would do this with me because I have a lot of anxiety and he always would make sure, like you need to breathe, you know, just come on, let's breathe. And so now she's doing this with me and I never. This was the first time in my life which I just met her and I'm like, and she's doing these things that Patrick would teach me to do, so interesting. 

0:37:39 - Maya

Oh she, I totally believe she was sent to you Like that's way too weird, yeah, way too yeah. 

0:37:46 - Katie

Yeah. So that's kind of how it started with the breathing of like, okay, I'm going to show you, and every day she texts me and she calls me and she said let's just breathe. And I like that a lot. Like now, looking back, it was great because it wasn't so much words going on, it was just like exactly what I needed and it was like my brother telling me to breathe here. Almost, you know, even though he isn't here, I was thinking of her. 

So that's how the breathing started and so, which was great, because I needed that help to breathe, because we had a funeral to plan and on top of that, when you're a fireman killed in the line of duty, they send these honor guard and they send them from like. It was back in Maryland is where the national fallen firefighters are. So they come back here and they help plan the memorial and all the bagpipes and the sheen rolls. And so the boys had a captain, patrick had a big one. We're all together and then two days later, the captain had his funeral and then Patrick had his funeral. So there's a lot of funerals and it's a lot. It's a lot, yeah, so, yeah. So that breathing, yeah, I just try to keep doing the breathing, yeah. And then, slowly but surely, she started talking to me like, okay, let's implement this in, but I think it was just a breathing to get me through that Perfect. It reminded me to breathe. I also because I hold. You know, you hold your breath a lot. 

0:39:16 - Maya

I'm sure you, I'm sure all of us can relate to this, but I have struggled with anxiety my whole life too, and when this happens, it just throws you back. You lose all the tools that you've gained over your years. Yes, because you know. I was 30 when my brother was killed. 

0:39:32 - Speaker 3

Yeah. 

0:39:33 - Maya

And I really just had it, had it together, yeah, and I was like I got this. And then it's like every tool I had learned to deal with my anxiety or anything I'd gone through in my life out the window, out the window, what was that? And I was like I was starting over. Yeah, exactly, so talk us to. So it sounds like your pastor has been a huge help in your life. And so I love how she sounded, just like Patrick. I do think we're sent these amazing people on this journey right, and it's like, wait what? 

Yeah, I'd rather would have said that, or my sister would have said that, or, like you know, it's like I needed to hear that, and we are sent those people even in our darkest times, and we have to just be open to it, like that could be my takeaway. Definitely, and it sounds like you know you were open to it, so walk us through how you. I mean, obviously you have these significant events that happened. It wasn't just his funeral, it was the captain, it was the traditional, and then now it's. 

Did you guys get the autopsy report soon after? Like what, yeah, life would look like for you? 

0:40:40 - Katie

Yes, so after that week, yeah, the autopsy report came in, the fire report came in, the fire investigation reports and also the start report. So when there's a big incident like this the fire and whatever the stark there's, certain people they have come in and do the stark report and it's a very, very surreal report to see break down everything and they interview everybody and that way they take these reports and they learn off of them so this doesn't happen again and whatnot. And so a lot of reports and just and you know the certified death certificates and this stuff like that. And I think the autopsy report it was hard because the top things are weird, right, and it's like how, in your brother we had an op, you know it's just you know. 

0:41:37 - Maya

That's why I wanted to ask you that, katie, because it is a moment for a moment. And I see a lot of people talk about it. A lot of people talk to me about it and it is a moment I don't think it's something we talk about enough, because reading that for me was Horrific. Yeah, I was curious about your experience. I'm like you know, your story is so incredible and I'm sure that was a lot and it is weird that's so weird, they're just weird. Weird. 

It's so medical, and you're like this is my person, yeah, this is my brother, yeah, your sister, right, that you're reading about and it's like for us it's brothers, but it's weird because it's so factual and like that's how I it was for me, yeah, yeah. Did you experience? 

0:42:16 - Katie

Yeah, it's very factual and it's like, also, I'm very visual and you know, and you're like, oh my gosh, and you see it in your head yes, yes, I did do, yeah, you did, okay, yeah, and I just and being his big sister, I'm sure you can relate it's just like I just felt hash, that shouldn't be hand on there. That's just horrible. To be on an autopsy table. I just, I think that was really to this day. It just makes my, my insides just hurt. I'm just like, oh, that's, that's awful. The gunner guards were there, two men, two firefighters stand guard. 

But he did have an autopsy which I thought was like, oh, like that, thank you guys for not leaving him alone in that cold of a room, like that's honestly, you know. After that and yeah, rating that, you know he suffocated, um and then. But the no burn mark thing was a big deal, like, thank you Jesus, like there's, he wasn't burned. I didn't wonder if you'd be burned, and also the catusion on his head. But other than that, they said he looks pretty good, you know. So I'm glad he looks good. His hair they put his hair as black, but he's blonde and so you know, that's just the smoke. That's how thick. The smoke was in his hair and he had all the gear on and the, and then they have a calf on the wear under the gear. So I'm like, wow, that's so crazy. And yeah, I just think, yeah, the autopsy. Really it still gets me to this day. And reading the Starter Report, two of you know of that incident the fire it was just kind of like-. 

0:44:02 - Maya

That was my next question for you. Yeah, what exactly happened? And cause, you talked about it just for a second in the beginning, but what happened? What did they discover in that report? 

0:44:12 - Katie

So okay, so the kids, what the report, and, and in the trial, the kids started the fire with the lighter, so they found the spring and the lighter and everything. So that's how it started. And this this library is so old there was no sprinklers to stomp and so and it's filled by bug and it's older building. It's an older building. 

0:44:34 - Maya

Yeah, what was in the building Right, and they're stuffed animals and-. 

0:44:37 - Katie

Right All the things, and basically in the Starter Report is that there was a lot of commotion, a lot of payoff in the radio. Some people heard them over the radio saying they were going in, or, captain, saying they're going in, and some people didn't hear them. So the people that the and when I'm say people, I should say firefighters. So when the firefighters didn't hear them, they started on the other side defending the fire from the outside, which created all that black smoke inside, which is why they couldn't stay. Then their air tanks ran out of air quicker than they should have, so there's a malfunction in the air tank, the radios and then the vacans that they wear so they get down. They should be flashing, were not flashing. So there was a lot on top of the kids starting the fire, there was still light, payoffs and so much more functions that should not be happening. 

That happened that night too. So that's what was discovered and which is awful, and it's like why all that in one night, not one thing like every single day? It was a crazy chain of events, yeah. So I think that that too was hard to read it like wow, this is nothing like. I thought it was safe. Like Patrick always said, like you know, I'll be a safe and this and that and, but they always should be able to at rest their gear. So then for them not to be able to trust their gear and set a tone for me up like this should never have happened, honestly, because it takes are supposed to last 30 to 40 minutes, so that they were in there for 14 minutes and then made it one off. So that's why, like 14 minutes, like their whole are, everyone's life was changed, like my life was changed forever in those 14 minutes and then you know you can relate to because, like in the instant, right, like your life is just change, just completely change, completely change. 

Yeah so and yeah, the start report, literally it's like this thing and it's like probably six inches thick and it's just like I'm reporting. You know, putting a little sticky, is making notes. Because I want to ask the chief these little questions, because I have to know did you after the board, did you sit down with him? Yeah, my mom and dad, yeah, you know what, and it was hard, but I want to know details and I want to know how everything went down and there they've been nothing but kind and receptive to us. They want us to be okay, they want us to know the details and and they'll give them to you as long as you want to know them and because you know it's hard for them to, because they they lost a brother in their brotherhood and and they felt, you know, they feel cautious certain to happen either, and so yeah, and I'm sure there's so many emotions on their side too. 

0:47:27 - Maya

Yeah, they're like that could have been any of us. 

0:47:29 - Speaker 3

Yeah, like that exactly any of us like, yeah, and so there is. 

0:47:31 - Maya

I could see there being a level of empathy that's quite deep and I think that's amazing that that came through. Yeah, and there's something I often say, like in my own story and I see it in a lot of other people's stories too it's typically people that come on the show. 

Yeah, what happens is like we all have a certain amount of answers that we need for some people need less and some people need more because we don't really get closure, but it's enough for us to be able to like, yeah, I can take the next step, I can take another breath, I can start to move forward in my life because this is just gonna be a part of your life. 

Yeah, right, but you seem to be very similar to me, and most of probably you guys listening to you wanted a lot of answers yes, and that's okay yeah you know, sometimes people will say, though, you know, like I don't want to know this or I don't want to know that, and that's okay too, right, it's very personal how much you want to know in in your lost story of your sibling yeah, yeah, and I agree with that. 

0:48:29 - Katie

And for me, I have to know all details because everyone, every night I would sit in lay in bed and just think, okay, so he went in, he went this way, he went up stairs, and I'm trying to map it all out. Right, so this report mapped it out, but then I'm very happy I can go in and get the details because, yeah, I just need to know every single thing. 

0:48:50 - Maya

Yeah yeah, a lot of us have that personality and I think that's okay, yeah, and I just I love that you shared that and I think it's really important that we give ourselves permission to get those answers yeah and when we are, we feel comfortable with the answers that we've gotten and we feel like we can put enough of the puzzle together, allow ourselves to feel like we can move forward. It's yeah, we're not leaving them in the past now, bringing them with us by getting those answers right, I think that's. 

That's a huge point of your story yes, yes yes, so. So obviously this has been a journey for four years, but you have done some pretty cool things and I've been involved in some cool things with Patrick. You're just kind of coming out of this this weekend to do you want to tell us a little bit about some of the things you've done to honor Patrick? Yeah, some of the amazing people that have helped you yeah, like this is absolutely. 

0:49:40 - Katie

It's so cool. So I'm I found Gloves for grief on Instagram I was actually and they so let me tell you can I tell you a little backstory on them real quick is, of course, found them on Instagram and I literally was just talking to my mom two days prior of like I wish there's something we could do to like box or hit something, because I was angry and I want to be able to like take some pain out and obviously on a punching bag you know we're a water bag or whatever and so I was scrolling on Instagram loves to greet a little sponsor and a little thing came up about what they are and who they are, and I immediately message love to grief and Tara, the one of the co-founders, got back to me and was like, oh my gosh, I'm so happy you reached out. We're actually having a bit in two weeks. You should come down, of course. So me and my mom went down. 

It was at a boxing gym, like a real boxing cream gym, you know and we, yeah, gotta do a boxy reaching with Ashley grassy, which is one of the co-founders as well, and they literally welcomed us, and with open arms, and I just love the environment of you. 

Everybody knows you're, you know, because everyone's grieving, and so you just go in there and you just have that same look in your eyes and you're accepted and there's no question that's. You're just there and everybody embraces you with these incredible hugs and so yeah, so I started going all their events and then became really close with Ashley and Tara and they said you know, we would love to have an event with Patrick air for Patrick and I'm captain and and can we do it before the day before the four-year memorial? And it would be our first travel event because they're in Orange County and I'm in the Central Valley and I'm like that would be amazing. So this past Saturday and we hosted love Sir Grease in Portaville downtown, in Main Athletic, and they came and cost probably almost 70 people attending doing the town girl. 

0:51:47 - Maya

Are you serious? That's amazing. 

0:51:49 - Katie

Yes, we didn't even we have to separate the workout. It was so good and the fire guys were there, even in uniform, helping set up the event, taking down the event. They came off duty and we're working out and and it was just such an honor to be able to share that day with Tara and Ashley. In that moment, and I'm just seeing my mom and dad boxing and my brother, brother and, and just to see the fireman and it was amazing. So I am now on the board with love, sir Grease, and I just love the punching your pain to a purpose, because I feel that you know, grief is not easy and everybody thinks sometimes you just need to stay calm and do yoga and this not what you guys great. But sometimes you want to hit something and sometimes it's really good to get your power back and break the lane, you know for a moment and and so and I really really love them so much. 

So that was Saturday, and then on Sunday was marks the four years of the fire and losing their lives, and so we in the library it's just obviously the ground zero and and we at the fire station, we lay the Reese at ground zero, we do prayer and the fire guys are there, all of them lined up, and they wear the hat backward, because that's the one day you can be out in uniform and Patrick always loved wears hat, hat backwards and then they shine their axis for Ray, for the captain, so they have acts, you know, shining in the afternoon. So we lay the Reese and then, after we have our memorial and there, we go inside the bay, which is where they keep all the trucks. They take them out, though, and all the guys are making us pancake, breakfast and eggs and all the fun things that we just hang out at the fire station and just be part of them for a little bit, and that's kind of been our day. 

0:53:41 - Maya

Yeah, it was really in it like a taste of his life right, because that was Patrick's life Exactly, and I love it. 

0:53:47 - Katie

There's a sense of peace at the fire station. There really is. It's just these guys are incredible and even where they're, the tones are going off and they're running out. They're putting that turnout on it and it takes your breath away because you're just sitting back like, wow, like these guys are running to the fires, they're running in to save people's lives, like it takes it all in and so, yeah, like what an honor to sit there and honor Patrick and Captain that well way. 

0:54:16 - Maya

I'm sure he would have had it no other way. 

0:54:18 - Katie

Right, yes, no other way, no other way. 

0:54:21 - Maya

No other way. I just think it's really. There's so many things I want to unpack before we close out, katie, because I think it's just so interesting that you're in California, right, and we all know infamous, you know West fires all of that and it ends up being so. 

you just never know what's going to happen with someone right, and I think that's such a big part of your story and I think that's kind of what we would have expected with the episode. It was a wildfire, he lost and it happened literally in his backyard. Yeah, literally, literally, yeah. But I want to go to what you were talking about with gloves for grief because, oh my god, like I absolutely love this organization, I love that you're a part of it. I want to thank you guys for sponsoring, like, thanks to the ladies, thanks to you. I'm so excited you're on the board now with them. 

I mean how perfect. But I connect so much with what you're saying and I know there's a lot of people out there too, because they ask me all that. You guys ask me all the time how do you get over the anger, how do you move through the anger? How do you like you know there's a lot of how do you move through the sadness? But, like you know, I'm like you. I think yoga's great, that's fine. Yeah, I am a very intense person. So like gloves for grief is like perfect for me and I'm so jealous that I can't just like pop over there and take a class with you because it's such a wonderful idea, but maybe it's something we can bring in the future so we can chat about that. 

0:55:44 - Katie

We can chat about that for sure. 

0:55:46 - Maya

Yes. So I think that would be kind of cool because my brain was kind of going as we were talking about some of our Patreon members would offer this virtually so we can talk. But I think it's a great thing because I'm like you. I'm like people are like do some yoga, do something. I'm like, are you kidding me? I just want to punch something Right, hit something. I need to get this real intense energy out of me. Like you know, calming myself down was not an option. 

Like yoga was not an option. I needed to get it out. 

0:56:15 - Katie

Right, right, like yes, understood. Yeah, even the fire guys were coming up to me and they're like man, I did not realize how amazing that was going to feel and that felt so good to be hitting that bag. I was like, thank you, I'm so thankful you felt that way. So, yeah, I need everybody. So I'm excited for you to be able to do that too one day soon. 

0:56:37 - Maya

Yeah. 

0:56:38 - Katie

Yeah. 

0:56:39 - Maya

Like I just I love that idea and again, I just hear from you guys so much. How do I release this anger? How do I, when my best advice is always let yourself feel it and let it out in a positive way and get an amazing positive way to do it Right, Right, and I think that's really great, and I also just really love you sharing just all of this. We were meant to record today and talk about this because I mean thank you for sharing because it's a lot of people ask too. 

What do I do? What do I do on the anniversary? What do I? How do I honor them? 

And what a beautiful thing that you guys do when you go hang out in the environment, that he would have been in right to honor him. Yeah, and I think that's really great, I think I would honor him and I think it's just another great example of how to honor your sibling on that such a tragic and hard day. And I think you know I talk about this all the time. It doesn't have to be something big, it can be something small, but just being present with them for that day, I think. 

0:57:41 - Katie

I agree with you completely. I think, being present for them and also I heard a quote that say like said something about remember how they loved you and how they love to live, and then you love yourself and live that way for them, and I just think that all together just ties in it so beautifully. 

0:57:59 - Maya

Beautiful, Like I love that. That's amazing. Yeah, I mean, all right, we're going to end there because that's perfect, Katie tell. I want to ask you one more question, though. Yeah, If you could go back four years I typically ask this question you could go back four years. Besides that beautiful quote you just shared Because what is? Is there any additional advice that you would give yourself on this four-year journey? After such a tragic loss of Patrick, Are any pieces of advice you would give to our amazing siblings that listen to and supporters that listen to the? 

0:58:30 - Katie

show. Yeah, I would say my advice would be gosh, when you feel like you can't breathe and you can't go on, don't think about how far you have to go, just think about that moment and sit there and pick a deep breath and just picture them with you breathing or sitting there, them hugging you, and I think if you really could put the visual light together for me, if I would go back and think about that, it just would help you naturally calm down and like they're with you and you're going to make it through and they want you to make it through. So I would say that would be my advice. Going back four years, yeah. 

0:59:15 - Maya

I love that advice. I know that's what's got you through. Yeah, add your little guardian angel to you and you're like this won't be for me to breathe. It's like my mother. It's great advice. I think it's great. Yeah, it doesn't feel like you're going to make it through, but you are. No, you are. And then you'll look back and you'll go how did I do that? 

0:59:31 - Katie

And that's a great great tip right there. 

0:59:35 - Maya

Love that, katie. What a beautiful, beautiful episode and what a beautiful memorial. And what you guys are doing at Gloves for Grief. I love it. Tell us where we can find you guys on Instagram and stuff and then also where we can find you and connect with you. But this is so cool, especially if you're in California. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

0:59:54 - Katie

So you can go to GlovesforGrieforg and their website tells you all the events and like how we got started and all the things. Also on Instagram is at at Gloves for Grief and then go ahead and check that out, follow them and then I'm at it, katie Sue, and it's it underscore, katie Sue, and you can find me, connect with me If you have any questions or just you know like, want to share stories. I'm so. I just I never want anybody to feel alone and that's what I love about you. It was like when I found you at season one, I was like, oh my gosh, I found somebody that gets me. Yeah, so I love what you do. So I really I really appreciate you being so open all these years. You know. 

1:00:37 - Maya

Thank you, katie. Yeah, well, of course, that'll be in a show notes and I'm sure you guys heard, yeah, the lovely commercial about GlovesforGrief earlier in the episode. So, yes, make sure you connect with them. Katie is an open book and, katie, thank you so much for sharing your story and Patrick's story with us today. Of course, thank you for having me. What an honor, absolutely, and thank you guys so much for listening to this arriving siblings podcast.