Emily Loses Pete To Encephalitis

Emily Loses Pete To Encephalitis- Podcast
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[00:00:00] Welcome to the Surviving Siblings podcast. I'm your host, Maya Raffler. As a surviving sibling myself, I knew that I wanted to share my story, my brother's story. I lost my brother to a homicide in November 2016, and after going through this experience, I knew that I wanted to share my story and his story.

And now it's your turn to share your stories

Today, I have Emily O'Brien with me, and Emily lost her brother, Pete, in a very interesting, unique way we have not talked about on the show yet, and during COVID. So we have a lot to unpack today. Emily, welcome to the show.

It's so nice to meet you. Thank you so much. It's great to be here. Yeah. We're really looking forward to having you and sharing this [00:01:00] very unique story. Yeah. And, you know, I, I've had a couple of COVID stories on, but this is, like, we're starting to get into that time where I'm feeling more comfortable about sharing those stories because enough time has passed.

Before we hit record, we were just talking about, "Oh my God, we're closer to 2030 than we are 2020. This is so wild." Like- Yeah ... totally wild. But Emily, before we get into how you lost your sweet brother, Pete, take us back in time. Tell us a little bit about you, Pete, your family, family dynamics. I know you guys are from Michigan, so yeah- Yeah

take us back. Tell us a little bit about you guys. Yeah. So, um, Pete and I were the only sibling, so it was just the two of us. Um, he is technically my older brother. We're 28 months apart, but, um, everybody assumed, like, after we were kids, everybody assumed we were either twins or I was older, because I was the more, like, mature, responsible one.

But, um, it was just the two of us, [00:02:00] and we were, like, thick as thieves. Like, we were soulmates, best of friends. It was him and I together forever. Um, inseparable when we were kids, and growing up, none of his friends had sisters, so I was, like, the little sister for everybody. So growing up, he had, like, 10, like, 12 group of, like, guy friends.

And so I was, like, I was Pete's little sister, I was Scott's little sister, I was, you know, Brian's little sister. So I was with him everywhere. Um, and we were inseparable. And then, like, middle school, you know, kind of, I tagged along too much. You know, like, we got distant. Mm-hmm. Um, high school was the same.

Like, we were together and not together, but I mean, it was always, like, he was my best friend. You know, there was no... There was nothing that would stop us from, you know, coming back together. So even when we would have our fights or, you know, I'd be around too [00:03:00] much, we would always still come back together.

And then once I went away to college, um, then our f- like, bond solidified. Like, it was just, like, having space from each other just completely locked it in. So we were talking and texting constantly, and I was only on the other side of the state in Michigan, so I was only, like, 90 minutes, two hours away, and I was home every other weekend, or he'd come visit me.

Um- And it was, I mean, he was legitimately, like, my absolute best friend. Um, and I've heard, like, you talk in other episodes about, like, you and your brother, and like, he, he was, is still, like, my soulmate. Like, we were- Yeah ... like, there, there's a Dave Matthews Band song, um, called Sister, and when he first started playing it, he would tell the story that him and his little sister would say that when she was born, [00:04:00] God took her heart and put it in his chest and his heart and put it in her chest, and that was how he always told the story.

And as soon as Pete and I heard that, we were like, "Oh, that's exactly how you and I feel." And it was- Oh my God ... like, that was how the two of us were. It was like- Yeah ... we knew what each other was thinking. We knew what each other was feeling. And That's, I mean, even now, like even with him gone, like he's still my soulmate.

He's still my best friend. He's still like that person for me, you know? Yeah. Um, so I had lived away for a couple years, and I still saw him all the time, and then, um, after I graduated from my ma- I got my master's in 2005, and I was like, "I'm moving to Florida. Like I don't- I'm not gonna live in Michigan anymore."

So I moved down and my parents moved down, and then he stayed in Michigan for two years, and then he wasn't doing well, and I was like, "All right, that's it. Like you can't survive up here without [00:05:00] us." Came up, got him, and then he moved down to Florida, and then he lived with me the whole- almost the whole time we were in Florida together until I met my husband.

Yeah. And then, and then that was the only reason that like he moved out from us living together is because, you know, I was living with the person that I eventually ended up marrying, you know? Yeah. Um, but even then, I mean, he lived five minutes away, and we were together all the time, you know? Yeah. And that's just who we were.

I mean, I'm still, I'm 44, and there's still people that call me Pete's little sister, you know? Oh. And it's just like, that's just who, you know- Yeah ... that's who I was my whole life. And that... I mean, we were, we were inseparable- Yeah ... for, until the day he died. I mean, almost. Yeah. I mean, you really were. Like, wow.

Yeah. And, um, you're so s- you're so sweet to remember that. Yes, I say the same thing about my brother, and you know what I find? A lot of [00:06:00] people, a lot of you guys who listen to the show and that get involved in our community, Emily, like that's how they feel about their sibling, which is why they find the show or they find the community, you know, and our group and the things that we do.

Because when you lose that person, it's so intense, and so I definitely connect to that aspect of your story, and I love you bringing up the Dave Matthews like song. I'm gonna listen to that so differently now- Yeah ... because I didn't really re- Like, yes, and like how... And it's so cool when you find like a poem or a story or a, you know, song or a whatever that like makes you go, "Oh my God, that's exactly how we feel."

Like it makes you feel so connected and validated that other people experience that too. Yeah. And I think a, like that's kind of what this show does is share stories like yours and Pete's and, uh, mine as well, and everybody else who has shared because it makes people feel very validated in what they're [00:07:00] experiencing, and I feel the same way as you.

I still feel to this day that my brother is and was my, my soulmate, and I think it's a... Love, love talking about this with you already because I think we need to understand that like soulmates don't have to be romantic. Yeah. They're just people that- They just get us. They get who we are. We don't, like you said so perfectly, we don't have to say anything.

My brother and I would just, like, give each other a look or like- Yeah ... sometimes we wouldn't even have to look. We would just feel the energy. Yep. You know what I mean? Like- Yep ... and then when we finally did w- look, we were like, "Oh my God, we were both thinking the same thing at the same time." There was just that really deep connection.

Yeah. And, um, I think it's interesting too, because you guys have a pretty close age gap. My brother and I were three years apart to the day. We had the same birthday, and you guys were two years. Crazy. Yeah, it was very crazy. And so I often feel like p- you probably feel this way too, like, that you connect with twins a lot, because I feel like that connection is very prevalent with twins.

So yeah, I definitely just wanted to take a moment and take- Yeah ... a pause there on that, because I feel like [00:08:00] a lot of people listening are like, "Yeah, that was my person. That was my..." You know, sometimes they say best friend, or for me it w- it was like you. I said soulmate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, he was. I mean, and like, people would tease us.

Like, friends of my brothers would tease us. Like, "Oh, is that your girlfriend?" Or, like, they would- Yes ... tease us about our relation. Yes. And we would always be like, "Just 'cause you can't, like, just 'cause you don't have anybody in your life that cares about you the same way that we care about each other," you know?

And we never really felt, like, it never bothered us because- Mm-hmm ... I never, like, we were never creeped out by it because I'm like, "I don't, like, that's not our relationship. Like, we're not creepy." Yeah. I love you and you love me, and like, I've got your back and you've got my back, and we knew that we were soulmates in that sense, that, like, our souls are intertwined, and that's just what it is, you know?

Mm-hmm. And so it was never Like, we were never weirded out by it. And his friends did it just to kind of be jerk, you know, like jerky guys. Well, they're- Like ... they're guys, right? Yeah. They're [00:09:00] guys, and so that's how they are. It's so funny. I don't think I've ever told this story on the podcast. This is why I love meeting people like you, Emily.

So i- I went through something similar, and it was m- it was more by the time I got ... Some went in high school, but more by the time I got in college. And I'm the older one, right? So I'm in college first, and, like, he would come visit, and, like, my friends. And, like, we would just, like, hang out, like, you know, on the couch or lay in my bed and listen to music.

Yeah. And we're, we're siblings. It was never weird to us. Yeah. And my friends, you know, that was, like, the time when Angelina was having these weird pictures with her brother, and they were like- Right ... and you're like, "Are you guys Angelina and whatever her brother's name is?" And like- Yeah ... so those little fun thi- Yeah

I don't know why, but that story just came to me as you were telling your story. Exactly. But, like, they would pick on him, too, and they'd be like- Yes ... you know. And so anyway, I totally get it. Right. Yeah. It's a funny thing. But you know, people make fun of what they don't understand. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And the, his friends didn't have

Like, either they were only siblings or they didn't have close relationships with their siblings- Right ... [00:10:00] or they were just kinda jerks who didn't have those kind of relationships with anybody, you know? Right. And it's like him and I were very ... Like, my brother was a ... We used to tease all the time, like, the show Scrubs, like JD.

Mm-hmm. Like, he was a sensie. We're, you know, that's who we were always like, "You're such a sensie." And he was a very sensitive guy. He was very open and vulnerable. Um, and that's who he was, and so, like, heart on his sleeve, and would tell you he loved you all the time, and never had any problem showing emotion.

And so- Yeah ... like, his friends, the, the super macho kind of toxic guys didn't get that. And so when he was vulnerable or when he was super emotional He was fine with it, you know? And so him being lovey with his sister wasn't a big deal to him because he was lovey with everybody, you know? I mean- Yeah ... he said, "I love you," to literally everybody.

He hugged his friends. He kissed his friends on the cheek. Like, it didn't matter to him. That's how he lived, you know? He showed love all the time and [00:11:00] lived that way with everybody, you know? Him and I just had a different dynamic because we were together, you know, from the beginning but- Right ... you know?

Yeah. Yeah. He just sounds like the sweetest guy, and, like, what a loving, sweet guy. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I have to, I have to ask you, I don't always ask this on episodes, but I have to ask you when, when is his birthday? Or, like, I'm- June 22nd. He's a Cancer. Oh my God. Yeah. I was gonna say, is he like some k- like soft- Yep

sensitive sign? Yes, of course he is. Yep. Oh my God. Yep. It's just, I, I don't always ask that question- Right ... but, like, s- when I'm starting to get, like, traits and I'm like- Oh, yeah ... 'cause I'm really into astrology, so- Yeah ... how funny. Oh my God. He- He absolutely was. Yep. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. Yep. Such a sweet soul. I love Cancers.

Yep. They have the sweetest hearts. Oh my gosh. And he absolutely was. Like, I tell everybody, like, he was, he was charisma personified. Um, he just had this way about him, and he was a server and a bartender all his life- Yeah ... um, in [00:12:00] Michigan and in Florida, and he was good at it because he had this quality where you wanted to know him.

If you've lost a sibling, trust me, I know exactly how you feel. I'm Maya. I'm the host of the Surviving Siblings podcast, but I'm also the founder of Surviving Siblings Support. I know that going through this experience is extremely difficult. Whether you've lost a brother like me, a sister, or perhaps more than one sibling, trust me, we know exactly how you feel.

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when he was in the hospital for a few days, and then after he passed, like we asked people to share stories about him. But people would be like, "I only knew your brother for a few days," or, "I only met him a few times," or, "I only knew him for a year, but he was like my best friend."

Or like, people would meet him and instantly they just developed this [00:14:00] connection with him because he just had that, he had that soul. He had that charisma. He had that ability to just like sit down and talk to you and be like, "Tell me everything about your life and let's be best friends." And it wasn't fake.

It wasn't, it wasn't BS. He wasn't doing it to get something out of you. He was literally like sitting down and like, "Let's have a drink. Let's smoke a cigarette, and I wanna know everything about your life, and let's be best friends for the next two hours." Yeah. And it was genuine, and people would walk away and be like, "Oh, my gosh," like, "I wanna get to know that guy.

I wanna hang out with that guy again." And, and that's who he was. I mean, he was the biggest, kindest-hearted person ever, you know? Well, that's why he- And people loved- ... enjoyed doing what he was doing because like, I mean, if you go and you sit at a bar and you really want someone to talk to and you really feel like that person is genuinely connecting with you, and you, sometimes you need that bartender more than you need [00:15:00] anybody else when you're going through something.

You know what I mean? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So I think, wow, like you've painted such a- Yeah ... great picture- Yeah ... of Pete. I wanna go back before we go forward for a second- Okay ... Emily. So you were telling me about how you moved to Florida and- Yeah ... then how he eventually came to Florida and you were- Yeah

saying he was kinda going through a difficult time. Yeah. What was going on with him that he was going through a difficult time? Was there something- So- ... that had happened in his life, or, and then we'll, we'll go forward- Yeah ... after, but I'm just curious about that. Um, so Pete was like- I p- like, he's lovey, he's lovely, but Pete was not, like, a perfect, you know?

So he was always drinking. Like, I mean, he, he was into, like, I mean, he wasn't into hard drugs. He wasn't like that, but he was always into stuff. And so after my parents and I left, he was drinking way more than he should, he was doing drugs way more than he should, and just kind of letting himself go. And as much charisma as he had and as big of [00:16:00] a personality as he had, he never wanted anybody to see the darker side.

So every time I would see him, it was like, "Oh, my God, everything is great. Oh, everything is amazing." But I would come up and visit, and it's like, "You're really skinny. Like, why are you skinny?" "Oh, you know, I'm just really busy at work. I'm just running around a lot." And I'd be like, "God, you look like crap.

Like, why are your eyes so, you know, like, why do you look so terrible?" "Oh, you know, I'm just really busy," or, "I'm not eating well." And then it's like, no, like, that's not happening, you know? And so we left him for about, it was, like, two years, and it just got to the point where it was right-- It was the last birthday that he had in Michigan, so it was his birthday of 2007.

And I had come up, and I came up every year for his birthday, um, and I would stay at his house for a week or whatever. And I was up here, and he, it was just party after party after party, and they-- I mean, it was a bartender lifestyle, so all of his friends lived the same lifestyle. Right. So, [00:17:00] you know, sleep until 1:00 in the afternoon and then party until 3:00 in the morning.

But it was harder than they were doing before, and it was, like, harder drugs than they were doing before, and it was just too much. And I was like, "This isn't who you are," um, "and I don't like this person." And so it was very much like, um... And I had been working as a substance abuse counselor at the time, so I had graduated with a social work degree, and I was doing substance abuse treatment in Florida.

And so I was like, "I can't live this life. Like, I can't live two separate lives. I can't do what I do and then have this secret life where I'm supporting you and being totally okay with you being who you are up here." And he, at that point finally admitted, um, that he was just wasting away. You know, he's like, "I can't, I don't, I can't live up here without you guys.

It's too hard, and I'm alone." And so then I'm like, "Well, what the hell are we doing?" Like, you [00:18:00] know- Yeah ... we've got a place. Like, why are you up here alone? Like, there's place, you can work in Florida. Like, there's bars, there's restaurants. Um, and so yeah, his birthday's in June 22nd, and so I flew back home, and then my dad drove up with a U-Haul like probably three or four days later and moved him down 4th of July.

Um, and it was just that fast. So I mean, it was like me telling him like, "I'm not doing this with you anymore," and him saying, "Okay, I get it," like, "I don't have to fake it anymore." Right. Well, and because- Yeah ... because of what you were doing for work, I love how you explained that, how you said, you know, "I couldn't live this, like, double life," like, be cool with you doing that.

You're the person that I love more than anything, you know? But also there's this, uh, I'm sure this other dynamic that's happening, like you're doing this for work. Yeah. So if anybody could see this and, and- Yeah ... know what was happening, you were probably sniffing it out more than your parents or anybody else.

Oh, yeah. 'Cause you're like, "Um, this is literally what I do every day. I know what's really going on here, and this is [00:19:00] not who you really..." Yeah, so there's, like, a lot of layers to this. Yep. And I'm glad he said yes and he came to Florida- Yeah, me too ... with you guys. Yeah. And I have no idea what would've ha- I mean, I would think about it.

We would talk about it a lot, like what would've happened if he would've said no. Right. And he was always like, "I wouldn't have ever said no." Like, there was no ch- like, there was no choice. There was no world in which I would've said no, because I was very adamant. Like, if when I leave, like when I fly back home, if you aren't planning to come back with me, like if you aren't packing up, if Dad's not driving up with a U-Haul, like I'm done.

Like, I'm not coming back Um, and so in his mind, he's like, "There's no universe in which I say no to you. Like, there's no universe in which I let this die," because that would've been essentially, like, the end of our relationship. Um, yeah, and so he's like, "There was no question. Of course I'm gonna move down with you."

That's amazing. Yeah. I, I just wanted to make sure we talked about this part- Yeah ... of the story 'cause I could tell that was important. So, um, so yeah, [00:20:00] so obviously he lives with you. Yeah. Then you get married and life moves forward. Yeah. And so- Yeah ... take us to 2020. Like- Okay ... a hard year for all of us, right?

But- Yeah ... real hard year for you.

It's crazy. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So co- so it's the beginning of COVID starting, so it's March. Um, and he had been sick. So Pete and I have, we've had ear infections our entire life. It's just something that we've always dealt with, right? And so the story kind of starts in September of 2019, and friend, our, his best friend, our best friends got married in Michigan in September, and he was up here, and being a drunken idiot, got into a scooter accident and broke his shoulder, so he had to have a surgery back in Florida.

And he doesn't have health insurance because he's a bartender and [00:21:00] a server, and so he owes the health system 40-something thousand dollars, right? Slowly, itty-bitty paying it off. You know, 20 bucks here, 20 bucks there, whatever. So the county that we lived in, there's only one health, there's one hospital system, so everything is owned, all the urgent cares, like, everything is owned by one hospital system, right?

So come March, he has an ear infection. He knows he has an ear infection, but he's not gonna go to urgent care because in his mind, he owes them $40,000, and if he goes to urgent care, they're gonna demand money to see him. Sure. Money that he doesn't have, like extra money And so he doesn't go. And he treats it the way that, like, he's treated it before, like, you know, ear, over-the-counter ear drops or whatever.

So the last time we spoke, it was March 12th, which was a Thursday, and it was the start... So that's kind of like when [00:22:00] the paper toilet, or the toilet paper, like, stores are empty, and it's like, what's happening, right? Mm-hmm. So I had put my son to bed and then gone and done, um, like a grocery store run, and I took a picture of, like, empty grocery store shelves and sent it to him, and he writes back with, like, a ridiculous text, and I, it, I love it because it's so him and us, and he's like, "Don't you know that in the apocalypse, toilet paper is gonna be the new currency?"

Like- ... you should know this. We, like, 'cause we read, like, The Stand and Station 11 and, like, we would read all those books. And so then I called him, and, like, we talk all the way, like, I'm driving home, and we're just talking about, like, nonsense, you know, like, "Isn't this the craziest thing in the world?" And like, baseball games are canceled, and, like, they didn't play the final, like, there's no college basketball and just how crazy and weird everything is.

Um, and so we talk, and it's totally normal, and I pull up in the driveway, and it's like, "All right," you know, like, "I'm home. I'm gonna [00:23:00] unpack, like, this weirdness," you know. "I love you. I'll talk to you later." And so I went to bed that night, um, and I wake up in the morning, and I have, like, 45 missed calls and text messages.

Um, and I know that it's dumb, and I shouldn't, but I will forever, like, regret that I didn't have my pho- like, cell phone on, like, even though I don't think I could have done anything, but it's just, like, one of those things- Yeah ... that you look back and you're like, "God, if only, but..." So it's Friday the 13th, um, and I have all these missed calls and text messages, and I'm going through them, and it's like, "Emily, call me," um, you know, "Pete's sick.

Emily, call me," and it's his roommate, his two roommates, um, and his on-again off-again girlfriend, and his one roommate is a nurse. So I finally get ahold of them, and they're like, "Pete got really sick last night. We took him to the emergency room." And I'm like, "What do you mean?" And she explains it very, um, clipped and, like, [00:24:00] loosely, and it's just The bit that I get from her at the time is, "I don't know exactly what happened, but he was really weird last night and something was wrong, and so we took him to the emergency room."

And I'm like, "Okay." And she's like, "He was totally out of it. They sedated him. He's in like a medical, like, coma, like, you know, he's out of it and they're running a bunch of tests." I'm like, "Okay." And at no point in time, like this is like 5:30, 6:00 in the morning, at no point in time was it like, "Oh my God, get up here," right?

So I'm like, "All right. Okay." And so I'm like, "All right, I'm gonna go about my day." I call my dad and I'm like, "Did you get any messages from Pete's roommates?" And, "No." And I'm like, "Okay, well call," you know, and I like say the roommates and, and I'm like, "Pete's in the hospital or something. I don't really know what's going on.

Call them, see what's happening. [00:25:00] I gotta go to work." And then my mom had had a, a follow-up appointment from like a minor surgery, and so I was planning on taking like a half day anyway. And so I'm like, "Okay, I'm gonna go to work. I'll take Mom to the doctor's appointment. You go to the hospital. We'll figure it out."

So like I go to work like normal. I call his best friends in Michigan and I'm like, "I don't know exactly what's going on, but like, Pete got sick. He's in the hospital. Like, they have him sedated while they're running a bunch of tests. I'll call you later." And it was all very like normal kind of, like he's just sick kind of thing.

Right. So like I do my half day. I leave work, and I'm like saying to like everybody at work, I'm like, "All right," like, "I don't know. I'll call you later," like, "I'll figure out what's going on. I'll call you later. I'll see you Monday," whatever. So I go home, my husband and I, uh, grab my mom, and we're like driving and we're like, "Oh man," like, "Pete's gonna need a GoFundMe for this one."

Like, we're not like, "Oh man," like racking [00:26:00] up the bills. We're all joking about like $40,000 plus whatever this, you know, medical bill's gonna be. So we take my mom to her doctor's appointment, and she's back like in her doctor's appointment and my cell phone's ringing and it's my brother's roommate, the nurse.

So I answer and she's like, "Where are you?" Said, "I'm sitting in the waiting room with Mom. She's back doing her checkup." And she's like, "Go outside so I can talk to you." Like, okay. And so I walk out, and she's like, "I don't know if your dad doesn't understand what's happening or isn't telling you what's happening, but you need to get up here."

And I'm like, "Okay." And she's like, "I've been fighting with," and she, like, lists off all of the friends that are there, like my brother's closest friends, about whether or not to call you. And she's like, "And I'm done fighting with them. You need to get up here." And I'm like, "What are you talking about?" And she says, she's like, "They've done three EEGs since 2:00 AM," [00:27:00] and that's, like, the brain scan.

Right. And I'm like, "Yeah." And she's like, "Pete has no brain function." What? And I'm like... I go, "What?" And she's like, "You need to get up here, Em." And I'm like, "Does Dad know?" And she's like, "Dad knows all, your dad knows all of this. Like, they keep doing tests. Pete's gone." What? And I'm like, "What are you talking about?"

Yeah. And she's like, "It's bad. It's bad." So I'm like... She's like, "Go get your mom and get over here." And, like, we were right across the street from the hospital he was at, so I go in, my mom comes out, and I must have... I- God only knows what I looked like, but my mom comes out and looks at me, and she's like, "What?"

And I'm like, "It's bad. Like, we need to go. Like, so-and-so just called. It's bad." So we go, [00:28:00] and, like, as we check in, like the way that everybody, like... So we walk in, and we say his name, and we're like, "We're here for Pete O'Brien." And, like, it's co- like, it's the start of COVID, and so you're only supposed to have two people in a room, and it's the medical ICU, and they just look at us.

Mm-hmm. And they're like, check us in, and they're like, "Go." And, like, there's three of us, and God only knows how many people are up there, and they don't even care. And so we're like, "Oh, God," right? So we go up, and immediately the nurse sees us and grabs the emergence- like, whoever the doctor on call was. Um, and, like, we didn't, I, we didn't even see him.

We didn't even walk into the room. And the doctor comes out, and he... And my dad is sitting there, and it's still, like, to this day, like, I still don't know whether my dad didn't ever process it or, like, didn't know what to do. Like, it's this very weird thing. Like, I don't know how [00:29:00] much of it he really understood, you know?

Right. Yeah. So we're out in the hallway, and this doctor comes out and says, um, "I'm gonna explain what's happened." And we're like, "Okay." And it's, like, 1:30 in the afternoon at this point, and Pete had... They took Pete in at about, like, 12:30 that morning. So, so he says, "Your brother came in-" This morning, his roommate had brought him in stating that he was making, and she called it herky-jerky movements.

Like, he was in his room and was, like, moving in a way that she recognized as a nurse was not nor- his body was moving in an abnormal way. They brought him into the emergency room, and he was speaking not in tongues, like in a religious way, but, like, in a gibberish, not making any sense way. [00:30:00] Mm-hmm. And he got very aggressive because nobody could understand what he was saying.

So they restrained him and sedated him. And at that point, they knew that something was wrong, and they recognized that his body had started going into sepsis. So he says he had a severe ear infection which had infected the bones of his inner ear, so, like, the hammer and the stirrup inside his inner ear, which had then moved into his brain stem- Oh my God

which had then caused encephalitis, so the swelling of the brain And so we're all just sitting there, and I'm like- In shock ... my brother's- You're in shock. Yeah. Right? Like, oh my God. Yeah. Yes. And they're like, "We've done three EEGs since this morning, and he has no brain function." And we're like... I'm like, "My brother had an ear infection."

And the doctor's like, "I've never seen this. [00:31:00] I will probably never see this again." What? "This is legitimately a once in a lifetime case." Wow. So they're like, "We're doing, we're doing the best that we can to see if we can reduce the swelling in his brain," like cold whatever. And they're like, and he's like, "But essentially, he's gone."

And we're just like, "He had an ear infection." Mm-hmm. Like, he had an ear infection And so we went from, like he had an ear infection to he was gone in a matter of 18 hours essentially. I mean, it was that fast. And And so, and it's just that fast. And then so like that's Friday And then, like, and I'm a mom. My son was n- he hadn't [00:32:00] turned two.

He was about, he would've turned two, uh, he was turning two a week later. Oh my God, you had, like, a baby. Oh my gosh. I had a baby. So his daycare, like, he's, I have to pick him up from daycare in an hour and a half. Oh my God, Emily. Yeah. And so we're sitting there, and, like, the first words out of my mom's mouth, she looks over at me and she says, "Start writing the obituary."

And I'm like- What? Right? And then, like, this is what, so this is the reason that I was so drawn to you and the podcast is- Yeah ... we stand up and, like, move back into the room, and everybody goes to my parents. They go to his girlfriend. They're going to his friends. And it's like, it's this whole mourning, taking care of each other.

And I'm standing there, and I'm like [00:33:00] Hello? You know what I'm like? And the on- it's almost like you're, uh, you're outside. It's like when those moments happen, this is what I feel like you're describing it. Yeah. I went through this too, and I'm sure a lot of you guys can relate to this. This is why I wanna double-click on this moment that you're describing.

I'm like, it's like when everybody starts to move towards the, the person they think is important, you're, like, pushed out, and it's almost like you're watching a movie. Seriously. Weird. Like, you're on the other side of a glass wall. Mm-hmm. And even my husband is, like, standing there, and it's like his hand is, like, on, like, my arm, but it's clear that, like, even he thinks, like, he needs to be, like, either at my brother's side or, like, with my parents.

Mm-hmm. And I'm like, like, people are more concerned with his on-again, off-again girlfriend who he has been on-again, off-again with [00:34:00] for two years at the most, and I'm like, "Hello," like- Right ... sister. You know? Yes. And it's... And I, I'm sure everybody listening knows this, this feeling, and it's the craziest feeling in the world to be standing there and watching everybody else fall apart, and just standing there.

And, like, I didn't cry. I didn't lose it. I didn't do anything. I just, like, stood there. Mm. And then I remember walking over and, like, grabbing his hand, and just standing there, like, looking at him in this hospital bed and I'm like Like, what the hell is going on right now? Yeah. 'Cause he's breathing. Right.

You know, he's got tubes, like his chest is moving up and down. Right. And then I'm like, "I have to go pick up my son- Right ... who's not even two." And like, how do you explain this to him? [00:35:00] It's like a whole other... Yeah, yeah. Yes. This is crazy. Yeah. Right. So, so that's like, so then Friday, like, then I have to make the phone calls to his best friends in Michigan, who, like I heard, like I tell everybody, it's like the Princess Bride when Inigo says, or Inigo says like the sound of ultimate suffering.

Yes. Because it's like when I called his friend, the one that had got married in September, and I said, I was like, "I can't believe I'm telling you this after I told you this morning that he's sick." And he's like, "Don't even say the words, Emily." And I was like, "I have to." And he's like, "Don't even say it." And I was like, "Pete's gone."

And like, I literally heard his heart break. And even then it's like I'm comforting you because I just had to give you this news. And I'm like, and you're crying and losing your mind. And I'm like, and I'm still sitting here, like I'm telling you this, and my heart's broken, but I'm not, [00:36:00] like, but I'm not showing that my heart's broken, you know?

Yeah. And it's ludicrous. And then, and then the weekend just gets crazier because then we find out my brother is an organ donor, which none of us knew until this moment. And there's the craziest laws around, the craziest rules around like declaring an organ donor brain dead, which go like back to like grave robbing like days back in London or whatever.

And you have to have two completely independent doctors who have never communicated with the original doctor Or the staff, uh, but it's COVID. So like COVID had just started, so doctors aren't traveling between hospitals. Right. So they have to do everything by telemedicine. But the nurses who are in the room with the little telemedicine machines can't be nurses that have ever coordinated with my brother's care or with the doctor who first, like, [00:37:00] declared him brain

So then we're sitting there and we're like, we have to wait. It takes two full days for them to officially, like, declare it. And it's, we're all just sitting around and we're like, "What are we doing?" Like- Yeah. I didn't even think about that because with my brother, even though of c- of course we lost him a totally different way, he was an organ donor as well.

We didn't know that, but like we d- you don't know the process until you go through it. And it- Yeah ... wasn't COVID, thank God, so you know, I mean, it did feel like a lot of sitting around. You have to wait, and they have to wait a certain- Yeah ... amount of time, and you know they're, you know, he's gone. And like now I look back on it and I'm like, I'm grateful for the time 'cause I got to sit- Yes

in the room with him and stuff like that. But I mean, what an awkward thing for you guys to go through, and like all the teleme- I mean, I'm just glad that you guys got to all be in the room- Yeah ... because that was, I'm so glad you shared that with us- Yeah ... because as we're talking more and more about COVID, you know, like experiences- Yeah

and, and our sibling loss, it's like- Yes ... that was one of my first questions when I, you know, when we first connected, I read your story, I was like, God, I wonder what she's gonna tell me about being in the hospital- Yeah ... because this is like- Yeah ... [00:38:00] really wild. Wow. S- That's wild ... so it was still the start. So like none of the doctors were, like there weren't COVID protocols yet, so like the doctors weren't- And they hadn't figured anything out yet.

Yeah. No. I mean, nothing. They weren't all masked. Mm-hmm. So like we were all still normal. We were allowed to come and go. Um, the team was amazing. They took such good care of us. The, the donor team that came in, um, and my brother, like the craziest thing, and we will joke about it for all of eternity, my brother drank like, I mean, my brother claims that we're 100% Irish.

I did a DNA test like the year before he died and we're like 4% Irish. Yeah. And he was so mad at me forever. But so he, um, it's so crazy that they ended up taking his organs like after midnight on Saint Patrick's Day, and we're like, you did that. Like somehow fate did that so that- Yeah ... you officially, your heart stopped beating in your own chest on Saint Patrick's Day.

But, but he donated his liver. And we're like, [00:39:00] how in the universe was your liver in any condition to save somebody else's life? But he donated his liver. His liver saved somebody's life. His heart saved somebody's life. Um, his kidneys and his skin and his eyes were used for like research and other stuff.

Um- Mm-hmm ... and the team was amazing, and they took such unbelievably good care of him. And so we were very thankful, yes, that we had four days that we got to spend in the hospital with him. Um, and like a hundred and something people passed through and came in and just wanted to, like, say something to my parents and say, like, "Pete meant so much to me," or, you know, "I never got to meet you, but Pete did this for me."

Or the stories that we heard, like people that I had never known, people my parents had never met, and it was just about how unbelievable of a person he was. And it was like all of the things I said in the very beginning [00:40:00] repeated back to us over and over and over again just by a hundred strangers, you know?

And it was amazing. Um, it really was. Like, it's, I mean, I hate that he died, of course, but it was amazing to hear how many lives he touched and how much people loved him. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure you still have people reach o- Like, that happens to me. Oh, God. Like, and this'll happen to you after this episode, too.

I'm sure you still have people reach out to you and say, "Oh, Emily, I never told you, but Pete," you know, fill in the blank, and, "Pete did this." And, and it's so hard to lose your sibling. That's why we have this show, obviously. But, um, I have found that to be just a way that, like, my brother really lives on with me, is through these- Yeah

little stories. Even if someone just met them, him one time, and I'm sure you s- fe- Right ... feel the same way about Pete. Like, it's just, like, it makes you feel, it makes you feel good. It makes you feel like they're still with you. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, so yeah, I mean, six [00:41:00] years now, so like, the... And I, I, I had said in, like, the emails that when we had talked, like, the first two years, I don't think I grieved at all.

Right. I don't think- Tell us about that. I- Like, why, do you think you were just in shock? Do you think COVID was s- so intense? Like, do you think it was a combination of things? Also- Also, you're, I mean, you're a newer mom, too. Yeah. Like, you have a lot going on. I think- Yeah ... it was all of it. I think it was, I didn't let myself because I took care of everybody else.

Yeah. I was so, I put so much into making sure everybody else was okay. I mean, like, like, don't get, like, I cried myself to sleep every night. I woke up crying every day. I cried in the shower. I cried on my way to work. Like, I did all of that. Like, I did that. I didn't publicly grieve. I didn't publicly cry. I didn't lose, I didn't lose it in front of anybody.

Mm-hmm. Because I ha- like, I felt as though it was my job [00:42:00] to hold it together for everybody else, and I felt like that was established from the moment that that doctor told us that he was gone. Like- Mm-hmm ... it felt like it was very clear at that moment that that's what my job was and that's what my role was, and, and everybody else allowed it to stay that way.

You know, at no point in time did my parents or my husband or anybody ever say, like, "You need to let go. Like, we've got this." Let us take it. You know, sit down. So I, you know, I threw myself into a nonprofit that we created for him where we started giving out money to bartenders and servers that were affected by COVID, and that was another way that I was- Oh, what great timing.

Yeah. Right. I loved when you shared that with me. Like, that's so, that was great timing- Yeah ... for that completely. Yeah. And so you had to have an outlet for your grief, so thank God you did, did that. Yeah. Right? Yep. Yeah. Yep. And again, it was just ... And I, I mean, I'm glad that I did it, and we helped a lot of people, [00:43:00] and I think eventually we'll restart it, but it was, I see it now that it was entirely a way for me just to not, to not feel anything, you know?

Yeah. Um, and I'm sure people listening to this, you know, like, if you're in that stage, you know exactly what it is. You just can't do it. You can't. You can't let yourself fall apart. Like, I had a baby. I, you know, I still worked. Like, I worked at a dental office during COVID that was still open because Florida didn't really believe in COVID, you know?

So we stayed open- Right, right ... and we still did everything, you know? Um, but, like, my life went on. Like, everything was the same. I got up every day, and I went to work, and I fed my son, and I put my son to bed every night. And every day I woke up and I was like, "Oh my God, today is Tuesday, and my brother's dead.

Oh my God, today is Wednesday, and my brother's dead." You know? And so it was two solid years of that. And then, like the middle two years hit me, and then it became like, [00:44:00] oh my God. Like, I stopped doing the carry everybody on my back thing. And that was when... So I moved back up to Michigan, essentially like I needed to get away from Florida, and we had a lot of family stuff happening.

And then I just stopped living entirely. So it was like going through the motions. Yeah. Like, I was so numb. I was numb to everything. I- Is, is it like, a, a lot of people describe it almost like a walking dead kind of feeling. Yep. Like you're just kind of going through. I'm like, this is so what Emily is describing.

Yes. Like- 1,000% ... walking dead numb- Yep ... feeling. Like- Yep ... and it's interesting that this was happening to you in like year two going on three, 'cause that's very common for people where- Yeah ... it's just like this is getting so intense that I just have to numb it out because I don't know if I can handle this.

Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. And it was, um... And like people would say, "Oh, you're depressed." And I was like, "No, it wasn't even, it wasn't even depressed," [00:45:00] because depressed is something. Like, it was, walking dead is it. It was nothing. I, I faked it when my son was around. So like when my son was awake and I was with him, I was like, "Yay, and what are we doing?

And oh my God, I love you so much, and let's do something." And then the second he was asleep or the second he was at school or the second he was not there, it was like right back to, I would sit on the couch and just scroll for, like a day. I would flip chan- you know. I mean, I was not living. I was not... The Walking Dead is exactly, is exactly what it was.

And- But that's so exhausting, Emily. Like, you, like, like, I mean, to be The Walking Dead version is exhausting, but now you're also adding, and a lot of you guys will relate to this too, and you might, like Emily said, you might be in this, you know, moment in your grief too, but, like, having to wear this mask and, like, you're acting, you know?

And, like, that's [00:46:00] ex- that's the reason there is a job for actors is because it is work, right? It is a job. And so I definitely can relate to that. I'm sure a lot of you guys can relate to what you're- Yeah ... describing because then I could even just see as you're describing this thing, your body just, like, relaxes when you're like, "Okay, my son went to bed or went to school," or like, "I could just be alone."

And, like, that's why you're disassociating by scrolling or watching or, you know, because it's just so much to do that. So what shifted? What was the moment for you when you were like- Yeah ... "I gotta, I gotta live again. Like, I can't be this shell of, of who I-" Yeah ... "used to be." Like, what was, what was that moment for you?

So it's, it's Pete. So it's entirely Pete. So, um, so I started seeing, I started going to, like, mediums and psychics, like, about 18 months after Pete died. Okay. Um, and I would pick people at random, like, and I would never use, like, I would always get a, a fake email. Like, I'd create one to reach out. I did the same thing.

Right? Yeah. Yep. Yeah. It's so smart. Um- Yeah ... so that they never, like, they would never know who I was. Sure. [00:47:00] I would never use my name. Um, and it's amazing. Like, he would come through right away instantly, and it was al- Like, they knew him right away, and they pegged him, and they would describe him to a T. And so, and I, I never felt, like, jilted.

I never felt like this was fake because it was him, and it felt like him right away. Right. And so even during, like, The Walking Dead stuff, I would still do it. Like, I would do it around my birthday and around, like, the anniversary of his death. Um, and so it got, the more I was doing it, like, the more I... And you had said this too, that you started getting more in tune with your brother even without going, like, seeking somebody else out.

Yes. And, and so I started, I could start to feel it too, so I would start dreaming about him more, um, even without, like, seeking somebody else out. So it was around, like, right around the, [00:48:00] like, the fifth anniversary. So around 2025-ish. Begin- No. So it was before. It was, like, January 2025. Um, and so it's one morning, and I, like, he's, I wake up.

I'm still sleeping obviously, but, like, in my dream, I wake up and he's sitting at the edge of my bed, and he's just, like, shaking his head at me. And I'm like, "What?" And he's like

And I'm like, "What?" And he's like, "What are you doing?" I'm like, "What are you talking about?" And he's like, "Do you wanna die?" And I'm like, "What are you talking about?" And he's like, "'Cause you know, like this ends. Like we can do this now if you want. Like, I mean, if you're gonna die, like we can just do this." And I'm like, "What are you talking about?"

He's like, "Whatever you're doing here, like whatever you're doing, we can just do it now." And I'm like, "No, I don't wanna die." Whoa, life chills. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, "No, I don't wanna die." Like, no. Like, I have a kid. Like, no, I don't wanna [00:49:00] die. And he's like, "Well, then what the hell are you doing?" And like, I remember it, like, and I'm crying, and I'm like, "You're gone," you know?

And I'm like, "This sucks." Like, you know. And I remember, like, and I could picture it, you know? And he's like, "So?" And I'm like, "What do you mean, so?" You know, like, we're having this argument, like, in my dream, whatever, you know? Um, but he's like, "That doesn't mean anything." And he's like, "So what, I'm gone?" Like, okay.

Yeah. And I'm like, "O- okay." And he's like, "Suck it up," you know? And then I wake up, and then, like, the next day he's there again. And he's like, "So what are we doing?" Like, "Are you getting up?" Like, "Are we doing this?" Like, "What are we doing?" Wow. And then it's like almost every day. And then he's like, "What did, what did we always say?"

I'm like, "I don't know. What did we always say?" "You know what we said." "I don't know what we said." And then I wake up, and I'm thinking of The Shawshank Redemption, like, "Get busy living or get busy dying." One of my favorite- Yes ... movies [00:50:00] of all time. Right? Yes. And that was one of the things, like, him and I used to always say, like, what an amazing quote.

So I wake up, and I'm like, "You son of a..." You know? Yes. And it's like, okay. And so, and then, like, he starts coming to me more frequently, and now, I mean, like, now he's with me all the time, but, but he starts coming more often, and he's like, "This ends." He's like, "You've realized this. Like, you have one life. Like, this ends.

Like, what are you doing?" And I'm like, "I don't know." And he's like, "So do something." He's like, "This is your life. Like, you get to choose." So I'm like, "Oh my God," you know? Like, holy crap, like, I don't have to do this, you know? Yeah. And it was entirely him, and it's... You know, and I'm sitting there, and I'm like, "God, I'm miserable," you know?

And I'm like, "God, I'm, like, I am miserable." So I started going back to therapy, and, like, in therapy, I'm like, "God, I'm miserable." And I'm like, "I don't wanna be married anymore." So I'm like, I, like, I'm not happy. So I'm like, "I don't [00:51:00] wanna be married." So I'm like, I, like... And my therapist is like, "You don't have to be married if you don't wanna be married.

Like, you're miserable in your marriage. Why are you in your marriage?" And I'm like, "Well- Right ... because I'm married." She's like, "So don't be married." And I'm like, "Oh my God, I'm allowed to do that." You know? You're like, "Oh, that, that's a, that was an option this whole time." "Like, I didn't know." Yeah, yeah.

Right? Mm-hmm. And it's like you're so stuck in, like, this- Yes ... you know, like, family, and, like, this is what you're supposed to do, and, and I'm like, "Oh my God." Well, like, when you're g- grieving though, Emily- Yes ... like, everything feels so big. Like, it feels like- Yeah ... how would I even do... Like, getting out of bed feels big.

Yeah. So leaving a marriage or leaving- Exactly ... a situation where you're not happy, that feels, like, insurmountable. So I understand why you felt the way that you did. Right. But you just needed someone, a trusted therapist, to tell you, like, "This is an option." You can do this Right? You're allowed to Like...

Yeah. Yeah. That's powerful. Yeah, and exactly. And so, and it's like, you know, my brother telling me like, "You're allowed to, like, live your life. Like, you get one of these. Like- Mm-hmm ... you are gonna die one day, so [00:52:00] choose to live." Yeah. And then my therapist being like, "If you don't wanna be married, you don't have to be."

And I'm like, "Oh my God, I could do that?" So, you know, I left my husband. Yeah. And then I'm like, "Oh my God, it's been a year." And I'm like, "Do I still wanna have this job that I have?" And I'm like, "Maybe I don't." I'm like, "Oh." And then I'm like, "Maybe I wanna share my story. Like, maybe I wanna talk about Pete," you know?

And it's like all of this stuff is, like, happening, you know? Yeah. And, you know, I reach out to you, and you're like, "Hey, I have time right now." And I'm like, "Oh my God," like, this is all... And it's, it all just starts to fall into place. Yes. And I'm like, "This is what happens when you start living your life. Like, th- this is what happens when you give yourself permission to live your life.

Like, it's my life. I get to do this now," you know? Mm-hmm. And it's- Yeah ... yeah. I mean, I had to go through two years of the walking dead, you know? But- Yes But yeah, and I get to [00:53:00] live it, and I mean, I miss my brother every single day, as I'm sure everybody listening misses their sibling every day. But, I mean, he's with me all the time.

You know? But he's guiding, he's guiding you to life again. Absolutely. Like, that's- Yeah ... I love your story, Emily. Oh my God, I'm so glad we connected because- Yeah. Me too ... there's just so many aspects of your story that I connect with personally, but I know so many people are gonna go, "Oh my God." Yeah. Like, it's gonna, you know, it's gonna be super inspiring, and I think your story will also give people hope, you know, if they're open- I hope so

to that because, you know, not everybody believes in an afterlife, but I do. Right. And, you know, I think hearing... What I love about our stories is we often, guests like you will talk about the continued relationship that you have with your sibling even after- Yeah ... they pass, and so your story's a great example of that, and I love that he visited you and was like- Oh, God

sitting on the bed going, "What now?" Yelling at me. "What are we gonna do? What are we gonna do?" Yeah. That's such a sibling thing to do, and I love it. Still, right? [00:54:00] Yeah. Yeah. Still yelling at me. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to ask you about this, though, and, and 'cause it's so, uh, you've shared so much and so openly and the- that's what makes these episodes really incredible.

But thank you for sharing about your divorce as well. Yeah. And I, I kinda knew that would p- potentially be where we were, are going, and I get asked this a lot. Um, when siblings are, like, newly bereaved, right? And, like, their partner's really not supporting them and is not super there for them, and, you know, uh, a lot of these stories do end up where you're not together anymore.

Yep. Because sometimes they just don't understand, and, you know, unfortunately I have a very similar tale and, you know, it, you know, I got divorced, and it's just, you know, um, my ex-husband and I are now very good friends and that's great and I'm so happy about that. But I remember there were just so many things, and so it's just really nice to have somebody come on and share openly about that, like, you weren't happy, and, like, even [00:55:00] in that moment where it was like everything zoomed out and you're watching this movie of everyone else, it was fascinating to me that your husband was in the movie.

He wasn't with you. You know what I mean? Yep. And that, kind of that parallel. Yep. And I connected very much to that because I'm like, "Oh my gosh. I connect with you," because I remember watching my sisters and, like, their partners were in the movie with them. Yeah. My partner was not in the movie with me for many parts of it, and I was like, that- I think that's a very, I think you can recover from that, and I tell people all the time.

You know, they'll talk to me about their spouse and they feel like they don't understand, and I'm like, "It really, there's no in between. It will go one way or the other. Either they want to dive in and understand, and understand your love for your sibling, or it will eventually become something where you're just like, 'I don't think I'll ever get over this, and I don't wanna stay angry or resentful about this for the rest of my life.'"

Yeah. That's where it goes. And I'm curious- Yeah ... if you feel, yeah, it sounds like you feel the same way. 1,000, and I, I say now, um, well, [00:56:00] it's like, it's interesting. I had, I had told my dad on numerous occasions in the five years between my brother passing and me deciding to leave, I had said numerous times that I wanted to leave.

Mm-hmm. Um, I had said at about the three-month mark that I, I was going to leave, um, um, because I knew that he wasn't supporting me in any way, shape, or form. Um, and then I had said it around six months, and both times my dad was like, "You don't really wanna do anything in the first year. Like, don't make any rash decisions."

I don't know that that's wrong. I don't know that he's wrong. Right. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I, I mean, like, knowing what I know now, like, I knew it was never gonna change. Right. Totally. Right. Right. Um, but, like, looking back, what you said is in my, I would agree with you 1,000% that you know, you know right away.

You know right away whether that [00:57:00] person is your person or not your person. Yeah. And you feel it in that moment. And I remember looking at the spouses. Like, you had siblings. I remember looking at the spouses of the friends, and- Like, the, the dynamic was so polar opposite- Yep ... of, like, who was there for, for each other and who wasn't.

Mm-hmm. And, like, for me, I mean, like, there was a moment within the first nine months where I woke... I mean, I woke up crying every day for God only knows how long. A year maybe, I don't know. And I woke up crying, and my husband looked at me and said, "What's wrong?" And I was like, "I'm, I, I'm sad." And he's like, "What do you mean?"

And I was like, "My brother is dead." I'm grieving. He's like- Oh, wow ... and he's like, "Oh, you're s- you're still that sad about that?" And I was like, "Oh, oh." [00:58:00] And I was like, "Yeah. Like, this is, this is irreparable at this moment." And like- Yep ... and I knew then. I mean, I stayed for another four and a half years, but, like, I knew then at that moment, like, you're never gonna understand how much this hurt.

And, like, he would say, like, when I would, I would be grieving and devastated, he'd go, "Well, he was my friend too, and I really miss him." And I'd be like, "Yeah, okay." Yeah. I think that's a tough, that's a tough one, 'cause I've heard that from people too, and, you know, I, I think that's a tough one 'cause I think what's happening is they're trying to relate to you, but w- in doing so, they don't understand that they're actually diminishing your- Yeah

grief. Mm-hmm. And so that's why it's so important, and I just, again, appreciate you being so open about this aspect of your grief too, because, you know, I think s- sometimes we have a lot of people that come on the show and they've had a great partner and this and that, but, like, there are, there are a lot of situations where that [00:59:00] isn't the case, right?

Yeah. And so, you know, hearing these stories, it makes you feel validated and, and understanding, like, look, not everything is coming up roses always. So, you know, I think it's important that if you have someone in your life, spouse, partner, whatever, um, if they're really in it with you, like they'll learn the language, and they'll learn- Yeah

what's appropriate, and they'll learn. They'll come, they'll show up to therapy or whatever you're doing. Yeah. Like, I've had a couple, um, of folks that have asked me, "Hey, can my spouse come to group?" I'm like, "Yes." Yes. "They can absolutely come to group. Like, it's not their turn to share. It's for siblings, right?

But if you want them to c- or come to our summit or whatever," I'm like- Yeah ... "They should. It's not, it's not- Yeah ... 'yes.'" Yeah. "They should." Yeah. Because they're gonna understand you. And, and the ones that have, it, it helps the relationships tremendously. Just listening- Yeah ... to this episode would probably help tremendously.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. So I really commend you for sharing- Yeah ... that, Emily. And, um, it seems like you, like ev- everything's flowing. Like, we connected. Yeah. It's like [01:00:00] Pete's just kind of guiding you. Oh, yeah. I hope that you'll relaunch the nonprofit so that we can- Yeah ... get that involved in our community, too, because- Yeah

it, I mean, I can't even imagine how many people you helped- Yeah ... especially during COVID, because that, it was an industry that was just completely just- Yeah ... blown to pieces. And so, um- Yeah ... I'm excited to see what you do with that- Yeah. Me too ... when you get that back up and running. That's amazing. Me too.

So, um, before we close out and before we tell- Yeah ... people where to find you, I always like to ask if there's something I didn't ask you or some- like, a little piece of advice or something you would go back and share, um, with Emily, you know, five, six years ago, or anybody who's listening that might be Emily, right- Yeah

at any point in time. Yeah. Um, uh, the thing I think I wish I would've told myself, or I wish somebody would've told me e- especially early on, is, and it, like, there's the book, like, It's Okay to Not Be Okay, but- Oh, yeah ... is really is like that. Like, like, there are [01:01:00] no answers, and you don't have to be okay. And, like, especially if, like, you're the eldest daughter or you have that whole, like, eldest daughter thing hanging over you- Like, don't.

And find, like, if you're listening to this podcast and you are early on in grief, like, you are already taking better care of yourself than I ever did, and that's amazing. I mean, like, finding people that get you and being with people who understand the connection that you had with your sibling and don't diminish it or don't undervalue it and are there for you, like, that's, that's what's gonna pull you through.

Because we do have something different than everybody else does, and it's, it's an entirely different kind of grief, and it's an entirely different relationship that parents will never understand, and [01:02:00] friends will never understand, and partners won't understand because it is so fundamentally different to lose the kind of, like, person that you were supposed to bury your parents with, and that you were sup- like...

So, like, seek out the people that understand you. Like, listening to this is a way better start than I had. So, I mean, you're already taking way better care of yourself than, than I did, you know? Yeah. And don't be too hard on yourself. Like, I was so hard on myself, and- That's true. Yes ... and it, you know. And it just, and I'm sure that it, it made the two years that I was the living dead last longer than it needed to.

But, um, there is no right answer and, you know. Yeah. People care. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I say that all the time, too. I'm like, if you're listening to this, I mean, like, when I meet people on, you know, that write to me, or I meet people on TikTok and they're telling me that, you know, I'm [01:03:00] like, "You're doing better than me.

You're gonna be fine. You're gonna be okay." Because trust me- Right ... it was a hot mess over here, so it's all good. All good. I was walking dead for many years, so I get you, Emily. Right. Where can people connect with you? So many people are gonna connect with your story. Where are you comfortable with people reaching out on so- is there a social channel you prefer?

Is there an email? Let us know and we'll put it in the comments. Uh, email's probably best. Awesome. Um, it's O- obrien.emily.b@gmail. Um, you can find me on, like, Facebook and Instagram at obrieneb, but, you know, that's just kind of me being a hot mess on social media. But you're welcome to find me and interact with all my insanity on there, but.

Okay. Yeah. Perfect. We'll put your- Yeah ... yeah, we'll put your email in here. And, um, thank you so much for sharing Pete with us- Yes ... and for sharing your story and your vulnerability. Thanks for being here. Yeah. I'm so glad we got to hook up and connect, so thank you so much. Me too. 

Thank you so much for listening to the Surviving Siblings [01:04:00] podcast. If you enjoyed this episode as much as I did creating it for you, then share it on your chosen social media platform, and don't forget to tag us at survivingsiblingspodcast so that more surviving siblings can find us. Remember to rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast.

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