Jordon Ferber - Healing and Humor

[00:00:36] Maya: Welcome back to the Surviving Siblings Podcast Today I have an incredible guest with me. His name is Jordan Ferber. A lot of you guys might know him in the Surviving Sibling community. Jordan, welcome to the show.

[00:00:52] Jordan: Oh boy, it is great to be here. It's it's surreal being on this side of the interview.

[00:00:58] Maya: I am excited for you to be on this side of the interview because I know you do your share of interviews and I loved meeting you in person at the Compassionate Friends Conference. We had maybe a little too much fun together. Can you have too much fun? I don't know.

[00:01:13] Jordan: I don't think you can qualify. There's no such thing as too much fun, especially at a conference that's supposed to be about grief and loss. And the fact that we can have a good time at a conference like that is amazing. So I think we, we knocked it outta the park.

[00:01:24] Maya: So well said. So for those of you who weren't at the conference, we were in Denver and we had so many incredible workshops and pre presentations for families in general, but we're here to talk about surviving siblings and there were so many incredible talks and groups on surviving sibling topics, which I thought was amazing, and you've been a part of that community for a long time.

[00:01:50] So what we wanna do is obviously dive into your story, Jordan, and put you on the other side of the mic today. But obviously share the story of your brother Russell. So tell us a little bit about Russell and you and your journey. You've been on your grief journey for over 20 years, 21 years. So I'm gonna hand it over to you.

[00:02:11] Jordan: Yeah, 21 years. It is crazy to wrap your mind around. It doesn't always feel that way. It took a long time before it did, before it stopped feeling like it had been yesterday.

[00:02:20] Maya: Yeah.

[00:02:20] Jordan: So yeah, I grew up in New York City. I am three years older than Russell. I was born in January. Russell was born in December.

[00:02:27] So we were only two years apart in school because of the way schools worked. So we had a lot of mutual friends growing up, russell always looked up to me. He always wanted to when he was five, somebody asked him what he wanted to be when he grew up and he said eight.

[00:02:42] Maya: 'cause you were eight.

[00:02:42] Jordan: 'cause I was eight.

[00:02:43] Maya: I love it.

[00:02:45] Jordan: And then there was a period where, Russell was very competitive. Russell was very much, he wanted to be the best of things. He was one of those kids that was annoying. He would, you would teach him how to do something and five minutes later he would better than you at it. And yeah, it was very annoying.

[00:03:02] Maya: But we love them.

[00:03:03] Jordan: He was an athlete, he played baseball, basketball. He was really very, really great. Athlete and had a really good mind for talking about it as well. He was really, he could be a coach of a lot of these teams. He had a very high sports iq, I guess you would say, really could see the whole field in the game and stuff.

[00:03:24] And there was a period he also had learning he had a mild growth hormone deficiency. His body didn't produce enough growth hormone, so at a certain point he was diagnosed with having that and he had to take shots every day to grow to give his body growth hormone.

[00:03:37] Maya: Wow. How old was he when that happened?

[00:03:40] Jordan: So he was ab I think he was about, I would say 11 or 12 when that started, and he was, 'cause he was really small for his age.

[00:03:48] Even when he was at, 11 years old, he looked like he was still probably about eight. He was really small.

[00:03:52] Maya: Wow. Okay.

[00:03:54] Jordan: But he was very smart, really smart, very good at reading the, reading people really good at schmoozing and charming people. Really good at just talking really great talker. And because he was so smart and so sociable, he was often having conversations with adults that were like adult conversations, he was not talking about kid stuff all the time.

[00:04:19] And so he was able to ingratiate himself with adults in a, in ways that a lot of kids his age were not. At 13 years old, he became friends with all of the New York Knicks. He invited all of the Knicks to his Bar Mitzvah at

[00:04:34] Maya: I love that. I love that. Okay, so how was he interfacing with the Knicks?

[00:04:39] Jordan: So he was a big basketball fan. My dad started getting tickets to games.

[00:04:43] He started asking for the autographs. He found this like back office where these girls worked, and he to borrow a pen, and then he became friends with these girls in that office and he would go to the games early and hang out with them and schmooze with the players. He no longer needed autographs. He would start talking to 'em about the game and they took to him, they adopted him almost.

[00:05:04] He was a,

[00:05:05] Maya: Wow.

[00:05:06] Jordan: everybody knew little Russ in the garden.

[00:05:09] Maya: That's so cute. I love that.

[00:05:11] Jordan: And he went to Houston with them in 1994 when they went to the finals, ended up sleeping in the same hotel room with a bunch of the ball boys.

[00:05:20] Maya: Wow.

[00:05:20] Jordan: And he ended up coming home with a hat that declared the Knicks, the winners of the championship that year, despite the fact that Houston actually won.

[00:05:28] Maya: I love, oh my God, this is such a cool story. So what did your parents think about this? How were your parents feeling about him

[00:05:36] Jordan: one,

[00:05:37] Maya: chilling with the Knicks?

[00:05:38] Jordan: yeah, I, it was surreal. I think. So part of it was also he became friendly with part of the reason that he was able to ingratiate himself with them. He had also been diagnosed with Lear severe learning disability at the time, and he had to switch schools in the middle of eighth grade to a school that had services for kids that had these learning differences.

[00:05:58] Because the elementary school that we went to didn't have those, and our school only went to eighth grade, so it was the middle of his final year there. He had to switch schools and at the same time, the Knicks traded for Derek Harper, who was a veteran point guard in Dallas and was hoping to join the Nixon win his first championship.

[00:06:16] And when Russell met him, he said to him, our lives are so similar. He's like talking to this, 30 year old man about how their lives are similar. And the guy was like, oh, really? He's yeah, we've just been both pulled out of one life and plugged into another and expected to perform up to the same level.

[00:06:32] Maya: Wow.

[00:06:33] Jordan: Just really wise, kind of way of looking at things. And he charmed us, this guy Derek, and he and Derek became friends. Russell's Element. The school that he had switched to was a boarding school in Connecticut. Derek's driver lived in Connecticut. So he would pick Russell up at school, drive him into the city for the games, and then back to school.

[00:06:54] And we became our families became very friend friendly with this guy Carlos, who was Derek's driver. He became a part of our family in a way. And my dad vetted all these people that were, that we spent time with. The girls that worked in that office in the back, my brother became friends with those girls.

[00:07:10] One of those girls, my dad sent her as the chaperone for Russell when he went to Houston.

[00:07:15] Maya: why he

[00:07:16] Jordan: flying with an

[00:07:16] Maya: that much. That's very cool.

[00:07:19] Jordan: And there was a period during there where it felt like Russell, even though he was younger than me, was I felt like I was living in his shadow at a certain point because he was

[00:07:27] Maya: So things shifted

[00:07:28] Jordan: a little bit,

[00:07:29] Maya: bit? Yeah. 

[00:07:30] Jordan: He was definitely a larger than life kind of figure. He got introduced to the head of PR for the Knicks. The head of PR for the Knicks introduced him to David Faulk. The super agent who, this the Nicks PR agent told David Falk, this young man could outtalk you out of any deal. He was like 14.

[00:07:50] Maya: Love it.

[00:07:51] Jordan: At 16 he was a nightclub promoter in the city.

[00:07:55] His best friend was dating Paris Hilton

[00:07:57] Maya: To paint us a picture, Jordan, what year is this? What are we talking

[00:08:01] Jordan: is 90,

[00:08:02] Maya: we're gonna tell your age, but I'm like you're talking pop culture here. We gotta paint a picture. Yeah.

[00:08:06] Jordan: Yeah. This, these are, this is like the late nineties.

[00:08:09] Maya: Okay.

[00:08:09] Jordan: Yeah.

[00:08:10] Maya: Very cool.

[00:08:11] Jordan: 95, 96, 97. And at that point there was a fair amount of sibling rivalry because he was always trying to be, a bit more out there. And I was, I started doing comedy 23 years ago. I don't think I really ever, I was never nearly as sociable as Russell was.

[00:08:29] Russell knew how to work a room. Russell could walk in the room and just talk to anybody. It's interesting how he was able to really just own, own any space that he walked into.

[00:08:41] Maya: Just assimilate to that. It sounds like, just go in and take it all in. But I think you've channeled that, but we'll get to that in a little bit. But you've

[00:08:49] Jordan: My, my mother was a family travel writer. She had been a regular travel writer and travel agent before she had kids. And then when she had kids, realized that there weren't a lot of vacation options, especially in the early eighties. And

[00:09:02] Maya: She was so ahead of her time. Wow.

[00:09:04] Jordan: She was one of the first mothers in the family travel industry and also a ballbuster and a no.

[00:09:11] Did not take no for an answer type of woman. My mother, very outspoken. My brother and I both got a lot of our our chutzpah from her

[00:09:18] Maya: No, really, I don't see that at all. I love that. That's very cool.

[00:09:25] Jordan: yeah, she had her own subscription based newsletter called Family Travel Times. And my brother and I wore the Guinea pigs for all these things. We

[00:09:31] Maya: Sure.

[00:09:32] Jordan: go on vacations everywhere and, we would the idea was that we were gonna go to these, the children's program at whatever the hotel we were at is, and we would report back to my mother about how it was.

[00:09:43] But Russell and I, being New Yorkers and also not really big on following the rules, would always also use that opportunity to figure out where the holes in security were so that, we're really helping.

[00:09:54] Maya: That's 

[00:09:55] Jordan: How can we get in trouble? We just pointed out a big flaw in your plan.

[00:09:58] Maya: Oh my gosh. I love that she's so ahead of her time. I didn't know that, that she did. Wow. That's incredible. What a cool like background you guys have.

[00:10:10] Jordan: my parents were both, are both pretty progressive. My mom went to Woodstock, my dad got into Studio 54.

[00:10:16] Maya: Oh, that's so cool. Yeah.

[00:10:18] Jordan: And on top of that, my dad also, my dad was a lawyer when he went to law school, he went to go watch Lenny Bruce's trials.

[00:10:24] Maya: Wow.

[00:10:25] Jordan: were also big on on comedy and counterculture stuff,

[00:10:29] Maya: And here you are born a comedian. Here we go. Yes. Wow. This is all shaping up in your story.

[00:10:37] Jordan: And Russell didn't really know what he wanted to do. He was a freewheeling type of guy. I think that the part of the reason that he became so good at charming people is because, and being such a, smooth talker was because of his learning disability.

[00:10:49] Because he was, partially dyslexic. He had a hard time reading. So he got out of having to read anything all the time by just talking, by verbally doing everything. 'cause he was really smart. He was, one of the smartest guys I've ever met, and he didn't really know what he wanted to do.

[00:11:04] He I went to college in California a couple of years later. He came out to California to go to college also, but he left at Thanksgiving. He was only, he was there for half a semester.

[00:11:15] Maya: Yeah.

[00:11:16] Jordan: In his last week there, he managed to get a liquor store and a local drug dealer to both take $1,400 personal checks from the local credit union that obviously bounced.

[00:11:29] Maya: Oh my God. So he really was a smooth talker. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

[00:11:34] Jordan: He came back to New York. He wasn't really sure exactly what he wanted to do. He had decided he ultimately decided he wanted to try cooking. He wanted to go to culinary school. And my dad said I'm not paying for culinary school until I know you're gonna stick with it. My dad got him a job working at Mesa Grill, which was Bobby flas flagship restaurant here in New York.

[00:11:53] Maya: Yes, he's

[00:11:55] Jordan: my dad is, was, and still is Bobby's lawyer. So we had a connection there.

[00:12:00] Maya: fun fact. That's very cool. I love Bobby Fly. He's amazing. Very cool fact. Yeah.

[00:12:05] Jordan: And about, I don't know, six months into working there, Russell became very good friends with one of the head sous chefs there who was about to leave to open his own string of restaurants out west. And he took Russell with him to learn on the job.

[00:12:18] Maya: Cool.

[00:12:19] Jordan: So their first stop was in Tucson, Arizona.

[00:12:23] There was already a restaurant in place called wildflower that Russell started learning in, but they were about to open a second restaurant in Tucson. And Russell was there for the opening of that. And then the next spot was just outside Boulder, Colorado. They opened one of the anchor restaurants of a new mall out there called Bloom, and this pastry chef fr and during that period of time was when Russell really also fell in love with pastry.

[00:12:49] That's when he really decided he wanted to be a pastry chef and not just a regular chef.

[00:12:53] Maya: it's a very creative role to be a pastry chef. Yeah 

[00:12:56] Jordan: precision based also, he really loved the professionalism that went into it the science of it.

[00:13:01] Maya: They're a whole different level pastry chefs, as if you guys Netflix and Chill, which we all do those pastry shows like a whole other level. So this is interesting. Yeah.

[00:13:12] Jordan: And so the pastry chef from Tucson, she came out to to Colorado to open that restaurant. And then after a month flew back to Arizona and Russell was the pastry chef at this restaurant,

[00:13:24] Maya: Cool.

[00:13:25] Jordan: and he cr created his first dessert there. It was a pumpkin moose served inside a little mini baked pumpkin,

[00:13:35] Maya: Love it.

[00:13:36] Jordan: and he was there for a little while.

[00:13:39] 

[00:15:28] Jordan: And Russell also very outspoken and very, the story I always tell is that he ultimately would, talk back to somebody and he got into a fight with somebody in the kitchen and he got fired. This was the real story apparently, is that he, my, he applied to go to the Culinary Institute of America and told the guy that he was gonna be leaving in six months or whatever to go back to go to culinary school, and the guy fired him on the spot.

[00:15:50] Maya: Oh, wow.

[00:15:51] Jordan: Yeah. To which my dad said your lease is not, up till the end of the year and you're in Colorado. Get yourself a ski pass and just have a good time. When else are you gonna have an opportunity to do that?

[00:16:01] Maya: He's not wrong.

[00:16:02] He's not wrong.

[00:16:04] Jordan: So he spent the rest of that year skiing 1, 1 1 month. My my uncle and all of his kids, my cousins all went out to go skiing in Vail.

[00:16:11] Russell met them in Vail to go skiing one night one day. And then one night they went out to go to dinner. They wanted to go to this fancy restaurant in Vail that was hard to get into. And they walked in and they were laughed out. Russell grabbed a business card as they walked out and then he called the restaurant and pretended to be Bobby Flay on the phone. He said, this is Bobby Flay calling from New York. One of my chefs is out there with his family and he'd love to come in and have dinner tonight. And they were like, oh, of course Mr. Flay, when will he be here? 20 minutes later they had Goodfellas to table for them.

[00:16:41] Maya: I love it. I love your energy, but I love Russell's energy like coming through this story too because I can, I'm like envisioning this happening. It's very cool. Yeah.

[00:16:51] Jordan: It was, it's, it, I always feel like he got away with the kind of things that nobody would even try to do. Like why would, who would do that?

[00:16:58] Maya: Yeah.

[00:17:00] Jordan: So he was out there for a while. He came back, he went to the culinary, instead of America, c i a, upstate New York, and he was just about to graduate.

[00:17:09] From there, he had been, he went to, let's see he had, he did his externship. C i a does this thing where they send you somewhere else to work in the world for for a trimester. And you spend that time working in a restaurant. And he worked at this restaurant in San Francisco. It was really funny actually.

[00:17:29] We Bobby Flay helped him pick the spot that he was gonna go to, and he gave him a list of all these places that he had offered. One of them was I think St. Lucia must've wanted to go to St. Lucia, and he is yeah, of course. Bobby's yeah, of course you wanna be sitting on the beach all day, but that's not what you're gonna be doing.

[00:17:44] Maya: Bobby wants him to go to

[00:17:45] Jordan: looked at the list of the chefs. He says, oh, George Marone in San Francisco. You're gonna learn the most with that guy. He's the, he's top of the line.

[00:17:53] So Russell moved to San Francisco. I drove out with him, actually did all the drives with him when he moved to Tucson. I drove out to Tucson with him.

[00:18:01] I drove from Tucson to Colorado with him. I drove from Colorado back to New York with him. I drove out to

[00:18:07] Maya: I was gonna say. I'm like, did you what was your involve in all this? So you were very involved in this process with him? Yeah.

[00:18:14] Jordan: The sibling rivalry had given way and we became, Really good friends at that point. Our bond got very strong and especially doing those drives was I really look, really, I'm glad that I did those drives.

[00:18:26] Maya: Of course, looking back on it, that was quality time and time that you spend together. So Of course, yeah. But I feel like when you get older too, it's your relationships change and they evolve too, right? When your kids as siblings, we all know this, there's rivalry, there's fighting, they're your first enemies, but they're also your first friends and there's all these different things.

[00:18:50] So yeah, I totally get it.

[00:18:52] Jordan: I have, I don't know where it is, but somewhere I have a thing that I made in art class when I was like 10 years old, where they're like, put together your timeline or whatever. And I remember so specifically having the part where my brother comes into the picture and the way that I wrote about it was like, and then my life was ruined because I had

[00:19:09] Maya: But I feel like that's an older sibling thing. Like I remember that I apparently bit one of my sister's faces when they were born, so that's a whole other podcast, a whole other story. But yes, apparently, 'cause, but here's the thing. We're alone and we don't know is the oldest. Fun fact.

[00:19:25] There you go, guys. But it's a thing. Si. Where does sibling rivalry come from? I don't know. It's like innate in us. You're the first one there and yeah. So that's a funny

[00:19:37] Jordan: It is ironic to me though. It's I, it's very funny to me to look back at that and be, and realize what a schmuck. I was like, not even realizing what I had when I had it, but things turned around. But still, it was fun. It's funny to look like, look at that stuff and be like, oh man, and then my life was ruined.

[00:19:52] Maya: right. No, totally. And I know we're leading up to that, but I am. I think that's really cool. Again, you stole the thoughts out of my head by sharing that because I was gonna ask you what was your involvement with all this travel that he was doing and how special that you did get to spend that time with him?

[00:20:06] That's really cool.

[00:20:07] Jordan: And Russell, 'cause Russell was a button pusher. Growing up, he would annoy you until you would hit him. And then now I'm in trouble.

[00:20:14] Maya: Oh yeah. That we know all about that as older siblings, right? Like we are the ones that go through everything first. And it's Jordan, Maya, what did you just do? And it's I didn't do anything. But still, you take the brunt of everything as the oldest, for

[00:20:28] Jordan: I always tell people that the older sibling is allowed to beat up on the younger one provided that the younger one tells on them.

[00:20:35] Maya: Yeah. It's the natural like flow of life. It's supposed to happen that way. I see that now. But in the moment you're like, why am I getting blamed for everything? You're the oldest. It is what it is. This is what we signed up for. Little did we now.

[00:20:50] Jordan: Yeah,

[00:20:53] Maya: Okay,

[00:20:53] Jordan: there was one period, there was one part period where my mom was interviewed by the a, b, c news or whatever to talk about her business and the traveling stuff. And there's a picture of the, like the four of us at the Liberty Bell, yet they show up and the comment that I make on TV is my brother's touching it.

[00:21:10] And I go, yeah, look what I broke now, mom.

[00:21:13] Maya: So again, you are the comedian already telling jokes and he's the one just taking the risk, diving in and touching the I love it. Oh my God, that's so funny. Isn't that interesting how like our personalities show up so early with stuff like that? I think it's fascinating because to this day now you are still a comedian, you're still the older brother and you're talking about Russell still to this day.

[00:21:37] I think it's really cool. Very cool. Okay, so back to Russell. So we are 

[00:21:44] Jordan: he

[00:21:44] Maya: in his culinary career. He's in the thick of it. What's,

[00:21:47] Jordan: he was, yeah. He drove to San Francisco. We stopped the drive to San Francisco. We stopped at a, my, one of my best friends from college lived in Chicago. We stopped to, to have dinner with him one night and stayed with him for a day. Then we stopped and visited another friend in just outside in Boulder, Colorado, who there's a whole story to that guy, but we had Thanksgiving dinner with him and his family.

[00:22:08] His family was actually from upstate New York and they had flown out to Colorado to be with him for Thanksgiving.

[00:22:13] Maya: Oh, cool.

[00:22:14] Jordan: And my cousin went to, I had a cousin that went to University of Colorado Boulder. So we stayed at her house 'cause she was back here and had Thanksgiving. And then we continued on to San Francisco.

[00:22:26] And a couple other good friends of mine from college lived around the corner from Russell. When we got to San Francisco, we parked the car. I called him. He was, I'm like, where are you? He gave me the address. I was parked like three doors down from them. So Russell had built-in friends when he moved to San Francisco.

[00:22:42] Maya: So cool.

[00:22:43] Jordan: Russell's birthday is New Year's Eve. My parents and I flew out to San Francisco to spend New Year's with him. We had dinner at the restaurant that he worked at, which the restaurant's no longer there, but it was called Redwood Park. And it was in the Transamerica Pyramid in San Francisco, really high-end restaurant.

[00:22:59] And George Marone, the owner, told Russell, it's because it's your 21st birthday and your parents are here, your family's here. I'm gonna let you off early. He goes, but this is the last birthday you're ever gonna spend outside the kitchen. When you're a chef, you spend all of your time in the kitchen, especially on the holidays.

[00:23:16] So enjoy it, appreciate

[00:23:19] Maya: not wrong. He's not wrong. That's the culture for

[00:23:22] Jordan: We went we had dinner, we went back to my friend's house where they had baked Russell a cake, and then my parents went and did the old person thing. And Russell and I went bar hopping through North Beach and back to our friend's house and yada, all that.

[00:23:34] Maya: Yeah.

[00:23:36] Jordan: And then Russell came back. We also took a trip before he finished his final trimester. He we took a trip to Amsterdam together. We spent a week in Europe together. And then he came back to finish his school. And he died on July 6th, 2002. Just shy of getting, just shy of his graduation from the Culinary Institute. He had a friend who had bought this nightclub out in the Hamptons and Russell loved going out to the Hamptons and, being a hot shot. And we don't really know where he was going. He ended up, was at a friend's house, had been up all night, I'm sure, and got in his car to go somewhere.

[00:24:16] We don't know where. He was supposed to come back to the city to walk. Our dog

[00:24:19] Maya: Yeah,

[00:24:19] Jordan: got in his car at about seven o'clock in the morning.

[00:24:23] Maya: I was gonna say, paint us a picture so early in the

[00:24:25] Jordan: Yep. Seven in the morning. And from the report that we read is that, I guess he, his he was looking at a, at the map or something. I don't think he knew where he was going. He ended up veering off the road, his car hit a signpost, broke the signpost off in half, punctured his tire. He spun out and he was hit on the passenger side of his car.

[00:24:45] By the only other vehicle on the road, which was a milk truck that was probably going a little too fast.

[00:24:51] Maya: Wow. Yeah.

[00:24:52] Jordan: At seven 30 in the morning. It was a Saturday. I was on vacation with friends of mine in Florida. I didn't find out myself until 10 o'clock at night.

[00:25:01] Maya: Who called you and let you

[00:25:03] Jordan: I was so I was on vacation in Florida.

[00:25:05] I was living in a postcard essentially. We had rented this house right on the beach in Fort Myers Beach, Florida. Me and a bunch of friends of mine, and we'd rented a boat for the day. I took my Motorola flip phone and plugged it in and left it there for the day. I didn't come back to the house.

[00:25:19] We put it around on the boat for a while. Went and had dinner at some, one of the hotels down the beach that had a rooftop bar, got back to the house about 10 o'clock, and I had 25 messages.

[00:25:30] Maya: Oh, I was gonna say, your phone was totally blown up. I'm sure. Yeah. And that was like 2002. That's when we were like, oh, we don't need our, we are not like so ingrained in our phone and engrossed in our phone. We could actually leave it or so we thought. And that's why I find these stories of a loss where we had connection but we weren't as connected as we are now.

[00:25:51] It's interesting. The call or how you found out. So your phone, you had a bajillion missed calls, I'm sure.

[00:25:58] Jordan: Yeah, I had all these missed calls and I had, like 25 messages. I listened to the first message. First message was from a cousin of mine saying, oh, Jordan, we're so sorry. I'm like, I don't know what that means, so let's go to the next one. And it was my, my dad saying call us at call us or call Grammy my grandmother.

[00:26:18] So I'm like, okay, then it's not my grandmother.

[00:26:22] Maya: Right,

[00:26:22] Jordan: And then I heard the next messages from my best friend and he was like, oh, Jordan, I'm and then I'm like, okay, I gotta call. I don't know. I can't listen to any more of these messages before I find out what the fuck happened. I can curse on here, right?

[00:26:35] Maya: of course. Yeah.

[00:26:35] Jordan: So I, yeah I called my dad. I, I took the phone. I went out, out, back onto the beach. I called my dad and he told me that Russell had died that,

[00:26:43] Maya: So dad gave you was the call. He's the person you spoke to. Yeah,

[00:26:48] Jordan: Yeah. And I collapsed pretty much.

[00:26:51] Maya: sure.

[00:26:52] We can all relate to that. All of those who have gotten the call, all of us who have gotten the call, we know what that's like. And so you're talking to your dad.

[00:27:02] Jordan: my dad asked me if I had any idea what kind of funeral Russell would've wanted, and I said, I don't have any idea. All I know is that the cake afterwards has to be amazing,

[00:27:13] Maya: The food has to be amazing.

[00:27:15] Jordan: right? But the cake in particular, he was a pastry chef. You gotta have a hell of a cake.

[00:27:19] Maya: Of course. I love that you said that. Wow. Yeah.

[00:27:23] Jordan: I think back on that that moment and having had the presence of mind to say that I I can't even, Ima like believe that e even in that moment I came up with a little bit of a joke

[00:27:33] Maya: 'cause that's

[00:27:33] Jordan: response to that question.

[00:27:35] Maya: You're a comedian. But I can see why you would look back on 'em. 'cause there's moments I look back on my own story too, and I'm like, God, I can't believe, but I'm, I'm a business owner, I'm an event planner, and I went into planning mode and I reflect back on my own story and I'm like, I feel like we go to our primal instincts and who we are as a person in those really tragic moments.

[00:27:56] So it's interesting that you said that too. I connect with that.

[00:27:59] Jordan: yeah.

[00:28:02] Maya: So you heard that from your dad. What did he say when you said the thing about the cake? I'm interested to hear what did he say?

[00:28:08] Jordan: I don't remember specifically. I think, I guess I, I probably got a chuckle out of him.

[00:28:13] Maya: Which is good in the moment, bringing levity to the darkest situation ever. Interesting. So what ha, did you stay or did you fly up? What happened next for you 

[00:28:23] Jordan: so luckily I have a cousin who's got like a gajillion dollars and he owned like part of a private jet or whatever.

[00:28:32] Maya: he just whisked you away,

[00:28:34] Jordan: so I got on a private plane at four in the morning and it took me directly to the airport in the Hamptons where my parents had been picked up by the same jet earlier that day, somewhere in Vermont where they were on vacation.

[00:28:47] 'cause they didn't find out until, like noon. They found out at, because they were in Vermont. There were no, no cell service. They finally got a phone call from the police,

[00:28:56] Maya: Wow.

[00:28:57] Jordan: About it. So they met me at the airfield and we drove directly from there to the morgue where we saw Russell's body.

[00:29:05] It was just, 

[00:29:06] Maya: Is that the moment where it became real for you, Jordan? What was, is that, or when you got the call, most people when we got the call it's still completely surreal, and you mentioned your comedian and you kicked it. I love that. Mentioning the cake, and I feel like those are our coping mechanisms.

[00:29:24] When you saw his body, when you guys were there as a family, do you feel like that it became real then, or was it a process for you?

[00:29:31] Jordan: I Yeah, it's definitely still processing. I think that there were so many moments that made it real that over that first year, it's definitely, it probably took five years before I stopped having moments that were like now this is real.

[00:29:44] Maya: Yes.

[00:29:45] Jordan: Yeah. Just that flight ju like me and two, like the pilot and the co-pilot so I'm by myself in the back of this little

[00:29:51] Maya: You are in the back and you're sitting there with all of your thoughts what was that flight like? Torture,

[00:29:56] Jordan: Yeah. It, I was very, they no bathroom on that flight. My stomach was a mess. I was not

[00:30:04] 'cause I was, I had been drinking all day. I'd been drinking beer all day and, 

[00:30:07] Maya: no idea this was gonna happen. Of course you were in Florida having a blast.

[00:30:12] Jordan: just ate like a whole bunch of fried soft shell crabs. I, a bunch of stuff in my stomach that was not happy in there, regardless of what had happened.

[00:30:20] Maya: And then you add this on top of it. You were partied in Florida as we all go and have a good time in

[00:30:25] Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. I remember the very first thing I said to my parents when I got off the plane, I put my arms around them and I made a point of saying, we've always been a strong family and we are gonna continue to be a strong family. I think we really needed that to be said because, we were always a close family and this brought us, I think I recognized that we needed each other to get through it, that we weren't gonna be able to survive without each other.

[00:30:50] Maya: I think that's really beautiful that you said that, and I think it's becoming a little bit of a theme in a lot of episodes this season that the eldest child will assume that role and you definitely have that experience and some of the other guests on this season. It's interesting how each season has a little bit of a theme, but we assume that to try to be the glue or kind of be the reassurance that's needed in that time and it's, no one trains us to do that.

[00:31:17] So it's interesting that we assume that role because I connect with you on that. But you knew to do that. It's interesting, right?

[00:31:24] Jordan: Yeah. I don't know. I just I felt in the moment that it was something that just needed to be said. It's one of those things I feel like a lot of times with grief, there are these things that we know inherently, but it's important to say them out loud to remind yourself. So many things I have to remind myself verbally, explicitly because it I just putting that stuff out into the universe, I think it's powerful.

[00:31:47] I think it's, I think it's important to to vocalize some of those things even when it seems pretty commonsensical.

[00:31:54] Maya: I agree 150% because I think sometimes we take those things that we think we know for granted and death changes everything. So that could be a reason why we do speak up and say those things, but. I'm always impressed when people like yourself and others that have been on this show just innately come up and say something like that.

[00:32:16] Because we assume the role so quickly to support our parents in this role, which is a huge topic. God, we could do like a series on that Jordan? Like how we assume the role of support. So thanks for sharing that moment. I know that's a really intimate moment, but, so you guys have this moment and then you go straight to the morgue and was that one of your, I know you saw his body, was that one of the moments?

[00:32:41] 'cause

[00:32:42] Jordan: Yeah. 

[00:32:42] Maya: Said.

[00:32:43] Jordan: Yeah. I mean you,

[00:32:44] Maya: Five years. That's a marker for sure. That was a marker for me too. And we connected on that before, but was that kind of your first real moment for you or talk us through that?

[00:32:53] Jordan: yeah, definitely. That's definitely one of the images that's burned into my brain. I can picture it.

[00:33:01] Maya: to this day,

[00:33:02] Jordan: Whenever I, yeah I, when I was thinking I can picture it whenever I want, but the fact is I never want

[00:33:08] Maya: probably never call upon that 'cause that's not what you wanna remember.

[00:33:12] Jordan: I'm starting to feel like why now? I'm starting to understand why some people cry on my show

[00:33:16] Maya: There you go. I know 

[00:33:17] Jordan: a little.

[00:33:18] Maya: I'm flipping the script on you a little bit. Yeah. 'cause it, it takes you back when you're telling the story. It

[00:33:23] Jordan: Yeah, 

[00:33:24] Maya: to feel the

[00:33:24] Jordan: these things, I remember having a conversation with somebody about heavy moments in life. People say can you remember your first kiss? People have these, I ever since the movie Inside Out, like you can call them core memories or whatever you want, but I feel like there are these moments of life that are visceral that they make an imprint on your brain and you can recall them in at least icac.

[00:33:45] I can recall certain details of my life, those kinds of big moments. Really minute detail, even if some of them might be somewhat wrong at this point. But that's how I remember it. The, that whole process, getting that phone call that, you know, even though I was, drunk and stoned, there's, it's pretty, pretty sobering moment to get that information.

[00:34:06] But I just there are those moments that I remember really specifically and then an entire year's worth of snapshots, 

[00:34:16] Maya: What was my life for a year? Yeah. As we call it like the fog. What was even happening. 

[00:34:21] Jordan: Yeah.

[00:34:21] Maya: Very interesting. Good movie by the way. Good movie. Call Out

[00:34:25] Jordan: Oh yeah. Inside out. Love it.

[00:34:26] Maya: Totally love it too. Yeah. So what happened?

[00:34:29] Jordan: I'm big on the Bing b bong.

[00:34:31] Maya: Yes. So what happened next? Tell us, walk us through that, Jordan. So obviously you guys have this very important moment where you physically see your brother, but walk us through what happened after that and your journey after that.

[00:34:43] Jordan: So then we went back to my cousin's house who gave us a ride back into the city.

[00:34:46] Went to my parents' house. My parents had just finished. This is, this I think is crazy. Also, my parents had just done the major demolition. They were renovating their kitchen, so they had no kitchen in their apartment. We had a

[00:35:00] Maya: that was like, your brother's like life. Was he what had been like a chef and pastry chef and had been going down this very strategic path? How interesting.

[00:35:10] Jordan: Yeah. My brother had helped pick out some of the appliances. He told my mother, which kind of stove to get and what all this stuff. There were all these,

[00:35:16] Maya: Yeah. It's one of those chills moments in the store. Yeah, for sure. Wow.

[00:35:20] Jordan: Yeah, we were there. Later that day, I think it was that day two of Russell's best friends drove in and brought his. His bag of clothes and things that he had out in the Hamptons to drop off with us. And there was a very large bag of marijuana in there. And so 

[00:35:38] Maya: That was Russell

[00:35:40] Jordan: I went in the back with his two friends and we sat down and we rolled it. We just, I broke up the entire bag and we rolled up about a dozen joints.

[00:35:47] Maya: in honor of Russell.

[00:35:49] Jordan: It was also just what else to, I

[00:35:50] Maya: What do.

[00:35:51] Jordan: fucking do with myself, what to do. So we sat down, we were talking, we were bullshitting a little bit. We were rolling up the joints and then we started smoking one and it was really good weeded. We didn't even get halfway through the joint, maybe a third of the way before we had to put it out. We were like, oh, we came out from the other room and my mom said, oh, that smells lovely.

[00:36:14] I would love a to of that.

[00:36:16] Maya: Had your mom ever smoked with you before or

[00:36:19] Jordan: yeah, I had never smoked pot with my mom before this.

[00:36:21] Maya: this blew your mind. You're like, wait, mom, what

[00:36:23] Jordan: It didn't blow my mind to that degree. We did know that my mom smoked pot

[00:36:27] Maya: Okay.

[00:36:28] Jordan: when we were younger. Russell and I were looking for Hanukkah presents and we found her pot

[00:36:33] Maya: I love that. I love that.

[00:36:35] Jordan: And we stole it. And we were never questioned about it.

[00:36:39] Maya: There you go.

[00:36:40] She didn't wanna come to you guys and be like, Hey, you took my p.

[00:36:43] Jordan: exactly. Exactly. And she did she had taught us to roll a joint at some point also, so we knew that she's had smoked pot

[00:36:51] Maya: But you didn't know like she was gonna engage this with you in this moment. Oh my God.

[00:36:56] Jordan: she'd actually shared with us that my grandparents let her and her kid and my aunt and uncle, they were allowed to smoke pot in their house growing up because it was way more illegal when they were growing up. And my pa grandparents didn't want to be worried about them out and about being arrested.

[00:37:08] Maya: I get that.

[00:37:09] Jordan: So when Russell and I started smoking pot, we were pretty open about it with my parents, and they gave us the same deal. Like we were allowed to smoke in the house with one of one or two of our friends, not like a party house. Like you're not, don't be inviting in the world here, but you can have one friend and you can have one friend that, you know.

[00:37:25] So we knew they smoked pot. We knew that my mom smoked pot or had smoked pot anyway, so we, she says she wants a to of this of the joint, but I had a dozen joints, so I just brought her a whole joint. And 

[00:37:38] Maya: You're like, whatever you want, mama. You go.

[00:37:40] Jordan: she goes, no, don't you have one that's already open?

[00:37:44] Maya: I love it. Oh my gosh.

[00:37:46] Jordan: Which, I don't know. I've never heard anybody say it that way before or

[00:37:49] Maya: No, me either.

[00:37:53] Jordan: So we brought the roach out and we're smoking the roach, and it, she passes it to my dad. My dad says no, and my mom said it was, this is from Russell's bag of pot. And my dad goes, oh, it was Russell's pot.

[00:38:03] All right, I'll have a to.

[00:38:04] Maya: Oh my

[00:38:05] Jordan: So that was the first time I ever heard of my dad's smoking pot. That was a mind blown.

[00:38:10] Maya: Okay. That was the mic drop moment. Was your dad being like, oh, it's Russell's okay in honor. Let's do that. Oh my gosh. That's funny.

[00:38:18] Jordan: Yeah.

[00:38:19] Maya: Wow.

[00:38:20] Jordan: And, from that day on, I started smoking pot with my parents

[00:38:25] Maya: Interesting.

[00:38:26] Jordan: a, it was like the one part of our grieving and mourning process that we were able to be on the same page about. It's like when we were having a bad day, all right, let's have a let's take a bong hit, let's smoke a joint, let's order some Chinese food and, worry about something else for a little few minutes.

[00:38:42] Maya: Oh my God. That's, again, here's the comedian in you. That's so funny. Like interesting.

[00:38:49] Jordan: So

[00:38:49] Maya: love the, I love that, that your father was like, it's Russell's. Like I'm still hung up on that. Okay. We'll do that. So interesting. Anyway, okay, so what happened next?

[00:38:57] Jordan: I always think that's, pretty funny to me. I was always makes

[00:39:00] Maya: it hilarious. Yeah. Okay, so you guys now are bonded over Russell's pot.

[00:39:06] So walk us through the rest of what

[00:39:08] Jordan: Let's see. That was Sunday or Monday. And then, so the funeral, the memorial service was on Wednesday. The the Jewish temple that we had both been Bar mitzvah, that was around the corner. The village temple the. Rabbi that we had when we were there was no longer their rabbi.

[00:39:25] He was going through some personal issues as well. He was getting divorced. He had a whole, a whole lot of personal stuff he was going through. So he was no longer the rabbi there, but we didn't really have a connection with the rabbi that had taken over for him. And so we got him to come do Russell's service and he was rusty.

[00:39:43] A lot of people were like, what's up with that rabbi? He is a little, but

[00:39:48] Maya: Been a minute for him, it seems yeah.

[00:39:50] Jordan: They did we brought in like a closed circuit camera thing to do like a, 'cause we had so many people that showed up for the service that they couldn't all fit into the space. So we had, they like converted all the, like the upstairs room and the other room.

[00:40:04] So they were able to put TVs, monitors in there. And we recorded it. Which by the way, I don't know if you have a recording of of the funeral, but I don't, I do not recommend watching it.

[00:40:15] Maya: No, and I, I did a celebration of life, or we did a celebration of life for my brother, so it was very closed. It's down by the creek where, on social media, I share every year I go down there and spread flowers for him. And at that time, or immediately after, I was like, oh gosh, I should have taken more video.

[00:40:33] I should have videoed me and the eulogy and all of that. Nope. Super glad. I did not, super glad I didn't do that. That's one of those things where I have zero regrets, in life. And I think I have his eulogy written and I have that, and that's more than enough. And I read it on this show if you guys wanna hear, you can listen to season one, but Oh yeah.

[00:40:53] I could not imagine watching that back. That would be very dark. 

[00:40:57] Jordan: Zero out of 10. Do not recommend.

[00:40:59] Maya: outta 10. Negative outta 10 for sure.

[00:41:01] Jordan: Negative out of 10 for sure.

[00:41:03] Maya: Yeah. Yeah. I agree. 

[00:41:05] Jordan: So yeah, we had the memorial service. We all, a lot, a bunch of us got up and spoke and then we opened it up to let anybody who wanted to come up and say a few words to speak. We had Russell cremated instead of buried.

[00:41:14] Maya: My brother is as well. 

[00:41:15] Jordan: We didn't really know what he wanted. We didn't have, any plots of land for him. And it's we're gonna go,

[00:41:21] Maya: Same thing. Yeah.

[00:41:23] Jordan: it's already a pain in the ass going out to Queens just to visit my family members that are out that are buried there. What a huge pain in the ass that is.

[00:41:30] Maya: Guys do with the ashes? Did you guys split them up in the family? Or did you keep it all together

[00:41:35] Jordan: so our plan, which I still think is, pretty amazing plan is that, we decided we were gonna sprinkle his ashes at all the different spots that he loved to go to around the world and the places that he wanted to go to.

[00:41:47] Maya: Yeah.

[00:41:48] Jordan: So we've sprinkled some of him in. At a few spots around New York he's in Colorado.

[00:41:55] He's in San Francisco, he's in Switzerland, he's in Amsterdam. He's in Hawaii. A few other spots, but we have, most of him is still in a industrial plastic bag, in a box in storage. It's 

[00:42:10] Maya: still has places to go. I'm Swiss by the way, so I love that you have him in Switzerland as well. So yeah, he has places to go. That's cool. That's cool. I love that idea. I think it's really cool to share like what we have, if we have a sibling that's cremated, like the things that we've done, like I have a tattoo, like my tattoo has my brother's ashes in it.

[00:42:29] I can't remember if I shared that with you, Jordan, when I was

[00:42:32] Jordan: I think you did. Yeah. I

[00:42:32] Maya: think I, yeah, because we, yeah, we definitely chilled and drank a bourbon or two together at the conference. That's a 10 outta 10 recommend. For sure.

[00:42:42] Jordan: for sure.

[00:42:43] Maya: Which we'll get to, but yeah.

[00:42:46] Jordan: my, my, my parents got a tour of the Madison Square Garden when they did the, finished doing the whole renovation, and my parents managed to throw a little bit of his ashes into the locker room

[00:42:54] Maya: Way cool. That's way cool.

[00:42:56] Jordan: Yeah,

[00:42:57] Maya: Oh, that is way cool. But he has more places to go.

[00:43:01] Jordan: he still has more places to go.

[00:43:02] Maya: So you have more places to go.

[00:43:04] Jordan: Yeah. I'm just, I'm gonna flip the script on that Dr. Seuss book.

[00:43:08] Maya: Yeah,

[00:43:09] Jordan: Oh, the Places You'll Grieve.

[00:43:10] Maya: Love it. I feel like we just came up with

[00:43:12] Jordan: I think we just did it. Yeah, I think we just wrote, we,

[00:43:15] Maya: I feel like We did. 

[00:43:16] Jordan: Will cry in a box. I will cry in a fox. With a fox. I will cry in a boat. I will cry on a boat.

[00:43:23] Maya: is your episode for sure. I love that. So as you guys can tell, Jordan and I bring levity even to such a dark

[00:43:31] Jordan: You know it, it's funny. So during that week that we were sitting, Shiva, my best friend flew out from California and there was one day where it was just the two of us hanging out. On my parents' balcony and he gave me this look and he goes, how long before I can make fun of you for this?

[00:43:49] Maya: because

[00:43:50] Jordan: And I knew exactly,

[00:43:50] Maya: you guys. Yeah.

[00:43:51] Jordan: and I knew exactly what he meant.

[00:43:53] What he meant was, and how I took it was how long before we can start talking about this the same way we talk about everything else.

[00:43:59] And for me, like I look at that moment as a lot like, it's that's what I do is I try to find ways to talk about this the way I talk about with everything else.

[00:44:06] So with inappropriate humor,

[00:44:09] Maya: right,

[00:44:10] Jordan: I have a lot of dick jokes about my grief.

[00:44:12] Maya: I love it. But you know what, I think you bring up something really important, Jordan, because you hear this, you've heard this for longer than me. I'm approaching seven years into my grief journey. You've been in this for two decades. I think I hear all the time, all the quote unquote inappropriate things people say to us.

[00:44:31] And I agree. I agree. There's so many things that are said to us as siblings and just grief in general, that it's like people don't have a temperature check on it. But there's an another side that you're bringing light to in this episode, and I know you talk about often we're ramping up to that, but.

[00:44:47] I think it's really beautiful because while there's all these inappropriate things that people say because they don't know how to talk about grief or approach it, or especially us as siblings and sibling laws, but there's another side to it where the people that really know us, like your friend, is like, Hey, your friend really knows you, really knew you, then knew you in the situation, knows you, and knew how to approach the situation.

[00:45:10] And those are the gems. Those are the people, and those are the people that we wanna hold onto in this journey where they know where to meet us. And I think that's a really beautiful thing. And I know when we're in the midst of the journey, and especially when we're fresh and raw in the journey, we take everything that people say a little bit.

[00:45:31] It's all personal. It's very personal, but we, I feel like what worked for me, and it sounds like, I love that you shared this. What worked for me was embracing the people that knew how to speak to me, speaking about those funny things about my brother or bringing levity to a situation. Those things work for me and I love that your friend, like I love that you brought that up because I love that your friend knew.

[00:45:51] So when can we start like bringing some comedy to this? When can we like laugh about this? And I get the feeling from you that your friend was not like diminishing your grief, your friend was meeting you where you need needed to be met.

[00:46:06] Jordan: A hundred percent. Yeah. He was asking like how, how long before it feels like our friendship is normal again. 'cause that's how we interact with each other is, by cursing at each other and making fun of each other.

[00:46:18] Maya: But in a way that you would receive it. And that's when you know you've got, that's the, that's silver

[00:46:22] Jordan: I started laughing right in that moment when he asked that because I knew exactly what he meant.

[00:46:26] Maya: Yes. And I feel like that's the silver lining that I always tell people. And I'm sure you do the same. Jordan I've seen you do it actually now that we've been to a conference together.

[00:46:35] Like embrace that. Like when people are meeting you where you are, like embrace that, forget any, like all the other people and things they're saying, like when your people are coming to you and Hey, I'm there for you. If you're a person who is, takes it this way and needs something very personalized and you're more sensitive, like they're gonna meet you where you are.

[00:46:51] If you're like us and you like a little levity, they're gonna meet you there. If you're like you and you like the comedy, that's a friend. That's someone that's there for you. And I think that's really cool. So thanks for sharing that. I think that's really awesome. Yeah. Okay, so your friend is there asking you this, so walk us through the next steps of your journey.

[00:47:09] When did you find compassionate friends and stuff? Walk us through all of this

[00:47:12] Jordan: My parents started going to Compassionate Friends three weeks after Russell died.

[00:47:16] Maya: yeah, I knew it was fast and we talked about this, so I wanted you to share that on

[00:47:19] Jordan: yeah, I did not I did not go that fast. I. It took me time. My parents went three weeks after Russell died. I think it was my mom always says that it was her birthday,

[00:47:28] Maya: Wow.

[00:47:29] Jordan: because Russell died July 6th.

[00:47:30] My mom's birthday is July 23rd and my dad's is July 31st.

[00:47:35] Maya: Oh wow.

[00:47:37] Jordan: Yeah. On top of each other. So it was between, it was in between their birthdays. It was like the end of July. They went to their first T C F meeting compassionate friends. 

[00:47:45] Maya: Right?

[00:47:46] Jordan: and they kept mentioning to me, there's a sibling group, oh, you should come and check out the sibling group.

[00:47:52] And it was probably a good six months before I went. I think I went to, my first meeting was the candle lighting ceremony in December,

[00:47:59] Which was very heavy.

[00:48:02] Maya: Yeah. To be your first meeting. Wow.

[00:48:04] Jordan: know. I can't believe I ever went back. I.

[00:48:07] Maya: Your personality, yes, but I don't know if I recommend that for everybody,

[00:48:12] Jordan: Yeah. No I, that's the thing. It was very heavy, although there was a short half hour sharing session afterwards, so we did break up and have a little sharing session afterwards. So I and I literally, I tell this, I tell this story, I guess at a lot of my meetings or in my workshops that I literally went to that meeting so that my parents would shut up about it.

[00:48:31] Maya: But how did you feel? I know you went to check a box.

[00:48:34] Jordan: I was not open to it being helpful. I

[00:48:37] Maya: you just closed off? Were you like arms like crossed? Were you just like totally closed off or tell

[00:48:42] Jordan: I don't know if I was like physically closed off like that, but it meant, but like mentally and emotionally, I was, my, my feeling was I'm gonna come to this thing. It's not gonna be helpful, and we'll never have to talk about it again.

[00:48:53] Maya: I've done it. Check. Let's move on. Which we know we don't. So we moved forward. Yeah. '

[00:48:58] Jordan: cause it was always that thing too. My parents were always like how, when trying new foods or new, experiences, like, how do you know you don't like it if you've never tried it? Okay. Okay. Now I know. I just I didn't, I don't think I spoke at all at that first meeting except to introduce myself maybe.

[00:49:13] But I just remember hearing other people speak and thinking to myself, huh. That sounds familiar. Okay. Interesting. The things that I had thought to myself that I wouldn't dare to share with anybody else okay, maybe I'm not crazy for having that thought. Oh, maybe I'm not like a totally insane person.

[00:49:30] Okay. Oh, interesting.

[00:49:32] Maya: Right.

[00:49:32] Jordan: And I don't remember when I started going with regularity, but I do remember specifically that the guy that ran that sibling sharing session when I first started going was maybe the most uncomfortable public speaker I have ever seen. He just did not look comfortable speaking in public at all.

[00:49:51] He was running this group, like I was pretty moved by that. I just, without even, hearing anybody else speak I was really, it was profound to me to see okay, this guy clearly hates speaking in front of people, but it's so important that he run this group, that he is facing,

[00:50:08] Maya: compelled to do that.

[00:50:10] Jordan: facing his own fear to to provide this much needed service. So that's where my mindset was in terms of why I went back, was like, okay, if this guy who clearly doesn't want to be here is coming on regularity to be here, I have no excuse. And also, 

[00:50:29] Maya: know this story yet.

[00:50:31] Jordan: I was also living with my parents at the time, so every time they would leave, every the group met every two weeks.

[00:50:36] So every time they would go, oh, we're gonna go. They never put a lot of pressure on me. They never, were like, Hey, you have to go. They were always just oh, by the way, So eventually I was like, I would tell them, I don't feel like going, but then I would go, 'cause I'd be like sitting at home doing nothing.

[00:50:48] So it's like, all right, what am I gonna do? I also threw myself into comedy. I was doing comedy like six nights a week basically. So Tuesday was like my day off that I could go to those meetings if I wanted to.

[00:51:01] Maya: Call it divine intervention, call it what you want, but interesting that was the day. Interesting. Do you feel like you threw yourself into comedy? This was like ingrained into you, like obviously you were gonna do comedy

[00:51:14] Jordan: I mean I had already been doing standup. I had been doing standup for about a year and a half when Russell died. Yeah, before he died I had been doing it for about a year and a half or so, and he was my biggest fan. He came to a lot of shows

[00:51:24] Maya: Love that.

[00:51:25] Jordan: and I got hooked up with this group called Comedy Gone Wild.

[00:51:29] They ultimately got sued by the girls gun wild guy and had to change the name. I. Ironically that he's not in jail. This comedy Gun Wild guy. He's out and about and still doing comedy, whereas the

[00:51:38] Maya: someone else's. But anyway, someone else's, but that's a whole other podcast, right?

[00:51:43] Jordan: yeah. But but I actually had known this guy through my brother and some friends of his promoter, friends of his and he blew this thing really up pretty big.

[00:51:50] And we did a bunch of shows at a few venues around the city. And then he booked these two shows at Madison Square Garden, at the Comedy Garden at M S G. So it was like the lobby area of the theater at Madison Square Garden. So they turned they would convert that into this comedy space. It was about 600 seats.

[00:52:07] The first one was in June. I sold about 30 tickets to that, including to Russell. Russell. And one of his friends came to that show, and Russell came backstage after my set and told me that the whole room hadn't laughed as one until I was on stage. Like other comedians before me had gotten pockets of the room, but I got everybody

[00:52:26] Maya: What a special memory.

[00:52:27] Jordan: He was so proud.

[00:52:29] Maya: Yeah, that's cool.

[00:52:30] Jordan: And then he died in July and I had the second one booked for August.

[00:52:36] Maya: And you did it

[00:52:37] Jordan: and so I, I didn't know what else to do with myself during that Was the joke, the running joke during Shiva was, what? Is there anything I can do? And I was like I got a big show coming up, Madison Square Garden.

[00:52:47] So I sold 130 tickets to that show. And I spent the week beforehand, like running around, literally to people's offices and selling tickets. And I don't think the show I didn't do as well on the show. I had an okay set, whatever, but I was, I felt very much like I was going through the motions of the show.

[00:53:06] It felt 

[00:53:06] Maya: that, like I think if you came on this podcast and you told me that you were like, and then I went on to do the best show of my life,

[00:53:16] Jordan: yeah, no, it was not.

[00:53:17] Maya: than a month. But if you had told me that, I'd be like, really? Like I think more of like I connect with you saying that, and I think all of you listening can connect with that regardless of, trust me, I'm no comedian.

[00:53:30] I can't do what you do Jordan. But any of us out there, like if, whatever we do, a month, less than a month after the passing of our sibling or siblings, the fact that you even did it, I commend you because. It's a blur and it's a tough time. And so if you had told me like, and I got a standing ovation, or This was great, you did it.

[00:53:53] Check it. Kudos to you, right?

[00:53:56] Jordan: the thing that sticks out for me, as I said, Russell was a huge Knicks fan and had his run of the garden. So like being in the garden was a big deal. And this particular show, the second show they had, they put all the names up on the marque of the Garden one by one, like appearing tonight.

[00:54:09] So I had my name on the marquee of the garden.

[00:54:11] Maya: That's cool.

[00:54:12] Jordan: All 130 people that I sold those tickets to, saw my name on the, in the big, on the big marquee in front. And that was, pretty imp. I'm still impressed by that. That's still, that's why my, it's my business card.

[00:54:26] Maya: That's way cool. Yeah, it is. I know I have your business guy.

[00:54:29] Jordan: I got that business card made, my dad was like that's not that subtle, is it? I was like, listen, if you had your name on the marquee of the garden, wouldn't you hand that picture to everyone you met?

[00:54:38] Maya: No time for subtlety dad. No time for subtlety. Yeah, for sure. No, I think I, again, the fact that you even went and did it, I think a lot of, like, all of us are impressed by that because the, as we've talked about, the first year is such a fog and the first month and you're gonna go that's amazing. And your brother was with you during that.

[00:54:59] That's amazing. So tell us a little bit more about, and then I've got another question for you too, which I know you're not shy and you'll answer Jordan, but tell us a little bit more about your evolution, because you went to the Compassionate Friends meeting and then you saw that. I think that's a great story to talk about how you saw this guy.

[00:55:20] And he's not exactly the extrovert, but he was willing to go up there because this is something that was so passionate and affected his life. But you're super involved in compassionate brands. So

[00:55:30] Jordan: Yeah, it took a

[00:55:31] Maya: us about yeah. Tell me about that evolution a little bit, and then I've got another really cool question for you.

[00:55:35] Yeah.

[00:55:36] Jordan: so I don't know. I've it was really gradual. I was doing, in order to get ready for that show at the garden, I started working at this club where I was doing like, three, four shows a night. I was handing out flyers in Times Square for an hour before each show, and I was like, really it was really cathartic to just scream at strangers in Times Square for an hour.

[00:55:55] And then they'll go do comedy and then come back out and do it again over and over. And I was leading, I felt like I was leading a double life because I wasn't talking about my grief on stage at all. I was just working these jokes. I became friendly with a lot of other comedians who had dealt with a lot of shit and not necessarily, had lost a sibling.

[00:56:11] But I developed a comradery with a group of comedians who I was able to talk a little bit about what I was dealing with. And I was also going to the, bar down the block until four in the morning every night. And it all comes out. 

[00:56:22] Maya: Yeah.

[00:56:23] Jordan: and then I was doing, I guess I would go to T c f every, every once a month, twice a month here and there.

[00:56:29] Ultimately, my mother became the chapter leader. And during that period, before she became the chapter leader, the guy the guy that had been running the sibling group stopped coming. And then there was another woman that was running the sibling group for a little while, and then we didn't have anybody running the sibling group.

[00:56:46] And our our chapter leader at the time would come in and sit and start the sibling group, just, lay out the ground rules, whatever, and then she would just quietly slip out. So I wasn't trained in it, but ultimately I was the most consistent member. So it felt like I was in charge even though I wasn't.

[00:57:05] And then my mom became the chapter leader and they did the facilitator training in their apartment. And so I couldn't get outta that

[00:57:14] Maya: So you were ingrained into it, so why not? Yeah. So what was the trading like? It was in the, in your like family ecosystem. Did you willingly become a part of it or were you just I'm here so I'll listen. Said, what was that like for

[00:57:31] Jordan: It was in the middle of that, I guess it was. I think I had done facilitator training. Was that the first time I had gone to another, I remember going to another facilitator training. I don't remember if that was the same Everything gets mish mishmoshed around time-wise. But I just remember feeling there needs to be a sibling group and I should get trained, and the fact that it's happening where I live is makes it pretty easy.

[00:57:59] Maya: Perfect. Yeah, I think that's a really good message though, Jordan, because I think sometimes we find ourselves in situations and our grief journey and it's a part of our journey. We don't realize where it's leading us, but here you are. Into your grief journey, and we're talking about it and you're a huge speaker and part of the ecosystem of Compassionate Friends and you have your podcast and so I'm gonna bring us up to date.

[00:58:27] What, how has Compassionate Friends been like Compassionate Friends Therapy? Tell us what's been the biggest part of your journey in grief? I feel like Compassionate Friends is just so integral and to your journey. It's been such a huge thing. Did are you someone who's gone to therapy? Like how did you get to where you are now, where you are a comedian and like you can talk about these things and we both can bring levity to it.

[00:58:57] And I feel like you've been able to do that for quite a while, obviously. But tell us a little bit about the things that have helped you get to where you are 21 years into this

[00:59:07] Jordan: Certainly T C F was a, is a huge part of it. The, I still, I was going to a therapist for a while. In fact, the therapist that I started going to see had been the same therapist that Russell saw before he died.

[00:59:18] Maya: Okay.

[00:59:19] Jordan: and we had family sessions with her, so she already knew a lot of the dynamic between, in my family

[00:59:24] Maya: Don't you think that's helpful? I think that's helpful.

[00:59:26] Jordan: it was,

[00:59:27] Maya: It was for me too. 'cause I've been with my therapist for 11, 12 years now. So he knew everything even prior to my brother. But I also don't wanna tell people not to go to therapy if they don't have a basis. But if you already have a therapist, like that's really cool.

[00:59:40] It's just a bonus. It's a bonus. It's like a little bonus.

[00:59:44] Jordan: There was a period of time though where I started getting a lot more out of just going to the T c F meetings

[00:59:49] Maya: Right.

[00:59:49] Jordan: than I was seeing her, because she didn't really, she didn't have a background in grief or loss,

[00:59:53] Maya: Which is another aspect 

[00:59:54] Jordan: and somewhere along the way I it felt like my my, the time of day that I was seeing her coincided with her nap time

[01:00:03] Maya: Oh, interesting.

[01:00:04] Jordan: more than once.

[01:00:05] I I caught her nodding off in the middle of our sessions.

[01:00:08] Maya: So you didn't feel heard. Yeah. So there were pluses and minuses to the, your therapy experience.

[01:00:14] Jordan: Yeah. And at the same time I was becoming, I just felt like te, like having peer support talking to other people that had dealt with sibling loss was the only thing that was helpful talking to somebody else about it, that that didn't have any idea about it, just. I didn't appeal to me.

[01:00:31] It's like this person doesn't really know what they're talking about,

[01:00:34] Maya: Yeah.

[01:00:35] Jordan: Because ultimately I think that's really what it is about when it comes to this loss. I really needed to feel heard and acknowledged and, there are no answers, but I needed to at least have the problems recognized as problems. And, I talk about this a lot in some of my groups and in my workshops also, but it was the conferences was where I found myself again. I feel like,

[01:00:58] Maya: you go to the first conference?

[01:01:00] Jordan: so my first conference was in 2005, I

[01:01:03] Maya: I think I went fairly early Into your grief journey?

[01:01:06] Jordan: Fairly early. Yeah. It was when it was in Boston,

[01:01:08] Maya: Okay,

[01:01:09] Jordan: and my parents basically bribed me with a family vacation.

[01:01:12] They're like, you have friends in

[01:01:13] Maya: so you were still a little in out at that point. Okay. Interesting. Okay.

[01:01:19] Jordan: They were like, you want to come to Boston? You have friends in Boston. If you don't feel like, going to any of the things, you can just hang out with your friends, whatever. I'm like, all right, cool. I did have friends in Boston and I did make plans to see them.

[01:01:29] And my mom goes, but you have to meet Ben, the head of the sibling thing in the thing. I'm like, all right, it's gonna be this Kumbaya guy. And we walk out and there he is by the pool with his guitar. Here he is. Kumbaya.

[01:01:43] Maya: You. You're like, I called it, this is what it is, right? 

[01:01:47] Jordan: And that conference turned me off in so many ways. Also I don't know why, the fact that I came back. So I remember was like a little bit involved, but I barely went to any of the things. I remember meeting some people. I went to the dinner thing and the dinner on Saturday night for the siblings was karaoke chicken fingers and hotdog and soda. I was like, no. I ran across the street and bought a bottle of wine at the liquor, at the supermarket,

[01:02:10] Maya: Not much has changed guys. Not much has changed.

[01:02:14] Not much has changed. Jordan.

[01:02:15] Jordan: out I did comedy. So instead of karaoke, it was me roasting this karaoke kid for 20 minutes. Poor 18 year old kid, hadn't lost a molar, much less a sibling. What I'm saying is that his loss didn't affect his smile.

[01:02:28] Maya: Oh my God. You're too much. But not much has changed. You're still the person that gets the party started in a good way, right? At these

[01:02:35] Jordan: And that's also where I met Keith. Keith was there that year. I think that Keith said that was his first year. Also Keith Singer, who runs the Staten Island chapter. And then I didn't go for the next two years. My parents went to the next the following year. The conference was in Dearborn, Michigan. And I didn't know anybody there and why the

[01:02:51] Maya: The Metropolitan City of Dearborn. Yeah. Why would you do that?

[01:02:55] Jordan: And then the following year it was in Oklahoma City. I. So I didn't wanna go there.

[01:03:01] Maya: Wait, you don't have a booming connection in Oklahoma City. No offense if

[01:03:05] Jordan: I didn't then.

[01:03:07] Maya: now. You do.

[01:03:08] Jordan: yeah, now I do.

[01:03:09] Maya: We know people all over the place now. Yeah, for sure.

[01:03:12] Jordan: And then the following year it was in Nashville and my mom had friends in Nashville and so they planned a little vacation thing also. And we didn't just do T C F stuff, we were there for a few more days. We went to the Grand Ole Opry, we did all these, Nashville, fancy things. And that's when I got hooked.

[01:03:28] That was the conference that hooked me because I remember hanging out with the siblings there and I recognized and remembered a few people from the Boston thing. And it has continually been even more so than that first than those first few years. But like when I was growing up and Russell and I were the Guinea pigs for the tra for my mom, my mom's travel business for the children's program, we would be, I. Loose in the hotel and running around the hotel causing trouble, finding out the different spots to hang out in and this and that. And that's what the conference is. It's like all these siblings that their parents are going off doing something, but the rest of us are having fun over here and we're, figuring it out and running around and whatever, making our own fun. And I was like,

[01:04:11] Maya: That's when you, that's when you connected, that's when you were like, I can connect with this. Everything came 360 for you.

[01:04:17] Jordan: And that was the last conference that my parents went to.

[01:04:20] Maya: Interesting. Actually, I think you told me that when we were in Denver this past year, so Yeah. Interesting though for you guys to know that was their last engagement, but that was the beginning of your real engagement and journey and being in, in involved in this, in on a different level.

[01:04:38] Like brought in is what I

[01:04:40] Jordan: ne the next couple of years after that, when I went to that conference by myself

[01:04:43] But didn't feel alone because I knew all the sibs there. It was, I've often said that I lost a part of myself when Russell died, and I found it at the conferences because it was the first place where I was wa where I walked in.

[01:04:56] And it didn't matter which version of myself I presented, whichever version of myself was presented, was accepted.

[01:05:03] Maya: So well said.

[01:05:04] Jordan: And I say this a lot at the conference, like the workshops are great and all the speakers are great, but we get our best work done in the, in-between times, in those hanging out moments, the, at the bar, by the pool in the hallway.

[01:05:16] Maya: Key phrase at the bar with this one. No, I'm just joking.

[01:05:20] Jordan: No. I, I tell people we get our best work done at the bar, which is an analogy for all the other things, but it's, that's what it is. And that's, I feel like that's where I found myself again, that's where I found ways to connect. I lost, I. The version of me that existed before Russell died and the version of me that is here with today, like two different people.

[01:05:38] Maya: Yeah.

[01:05:38] Jordan: But it took time, the, I was still trying to connect to the old version of myself and which has made it hard for me to connect to other people. Being at the conference, I was able to connect to that version and share that version and people were like, wow, how do we get that guy to be this guy?

[01:05:54] And you're like, at the conference when I found ways to, to relate, I'm like, I feel like the most myself at those conferences. I am the most Russell's brother at those conferences. I get to share all that stuff in a way that's not weird or sad or like a or a left turn from what we just were talking about.

[01:06:12] Maya: Yeah, I totally understand what you're saying. 'cause you can literally obviously my brother is Andreas, so if you guys know that, but I can sit there and in one sentence, be talking to you and be like, oh my God, Andreas would've loved that car outside and. In the next moment be like, Hey, do you want another glass of wine?

[01:06:32] Or do you like, and we can just not like skip a beat. Like it's just, you fall in place and in regular everyday life, that's not really what happens because people stop you and they're like, what do you mean he would've? And there's so many questions and there's not that level of acceptance. And I feel like I think that's the beautiful thing about these conferences, but also it's the beautiful thing about like to your point about support groups, about any, like just this community in general and what we are both creating in this.

[01:07:01] Like it's something I always look back on and I am like, God, I wish I had this. I didn't even know it existed. And I just so enjoyed being with all of you guys this year because, It's so refreshing because yeah, it's okay. And if you wanna start crying and you're crying first, nobody even thinks about it.

[01:07:22] Like it's fine. Everyone just rallies around you and it's a really positive thing and you feel like you can be, I call it my before and after. And so I connect with what you say to Jordan in that because I will never be who I was for 30 years before my brother was killed and was killed by homicide.

[01:07:44] But I also have now embraced who I am and I'm comfortable and happy with who I am after you know his loss. And I feel, I often say I feel more connected to him now than I felt connected to him in a very long time. And it's because I found a place where I can connect with all of you and also this outlet.

[01:08:07] So thank you for sharing that because I think a lot of people feel like it's. They're just gonna feel lost for a really long time, and I hope you guys find inspiration from this because you will find your tribe, whether it's with us or with other people. There's hope you will find your tribe.

[01:08:23] Jordan: And I also like to say, I'm not defined by the loss. There was a number of years where I felt defined by the loss,

[01:08:29] Maya: for sure.

[01:08:30] Jordan: I would tell people, who are, who am I? I'm a New Yorker. I'm a comedian. I lost my brother in that

[01:08:35] Maya: It's like boom. Yeah. I get

[01:08:36] Jordan: And that was a depressing place to live from. And it took time. But I don't know. I've, I, for me, I've realized for that I am not defined by the loss I'm having. I'm defined by having had Russell in the first place.

[01:08:47] Maya: Yes, we talked about that. And I love that. And I think that's a really, I feel like that's when you start to make a shift too, on your grief journey, when you start to realize that because different people that come on this show and different people that talk at the conference and different people that talk in different groups and all of that, all the beautiful mix of this and the community that we're creating because thank God we're bringing light to this Jordan?

[01:09:12] It's important, but I feel like it defined me too. It literally defined me for a very long time. And I feel like it's still defines me, but it's not defining me. And the difference between the two is, is yes, it's a part of my life, but it's not my life. Like it's a part of who I am, but it's not Okay.

[01:09:33] I'm Maya. I live in Atlanta, Georgia. I lost my brother to a homicide. I'm forever, no and that's why I always tell people that I feel closer to my brother now more than ever because I've told a story. It's out there and I'm connected with other people, and I feel like I'm moving into a positive place with this because I'm on here talking to people like you.

[01:09:55] And it's not who I am, but it's a part of my story and he'll always be with me. And I know you feel the same way about Russell, and it's a part of your journey. And it's okay. It's okay. Here's the other part. It's okay to be defined by it. It's okay. But when do you make the shift you like, you can't be defined by it for your entire life.

[01:10:17] It is a part of your life. And when you feel that shift like you're describing Jordan, wow it's powerful. I think we let it define us because. We don't wanna lose them, and what we don't realize is defining ourselves by the hat, doesn't keep them.

[01:10:36] Jordan: I think also, we don't wanna do the work, 

[01:10:38] Maya: Oh yeah,

[01:10:39] Jordan: the physical work of thinking about some of this stuff of coping. It's it's hard, it's really hard to, I. To think about this stuff and to, I, a lot of this stuff are, a lot of these ideas are things that I can understand on an intellectual level, but are really hard to enact on an emotional level.

[01:10:53] And so I have to remind myself of these things. I try have to actually work at not getting mired down in the loss of it all. Try to remember the life of it all and the way that it continues to f the ways that I continue to find connection with other people by talking about some of this stuff.

[01:11:13] That it's not all a big sad fest.

[01:11:17] Maya: Very well said. I love that you said like the life of it all. I love that. I've never heard that before. I love that. The life of it all. That's beautiful,

[01:11:27] Jordan: Yeah.

[01:11:28] Maya: Jordan. So tell us, okay, a couple things. I have one que one big question for you. So every season it's interesting because there are not a lot of men that want to come on the show.

[01:11:40] It's not because I've asked 'em and they've said no, it's because we have a plethora of people wanting to share their stories. But it's very rare that men apply to the show. The three men I've had on so far, I have asked them this question, why do you think that men are a little bit different with grief?

[01:12:01] I think there, there is a common theme here, and I think it's a societal thing, and I think we really wanna break out of that, but it's not that men aren't grieving, it's that we don't

[01:12:14] Jordan: It's that men are taught from a very early age to not show anybody when you're grieving.

[01:12:18] Maya: right. Tell me your opinion on

[01:12:19] Jordan: We're not even that far away from, it's really only 20 years ago where the predominant response to any type of injury was rub dirt in it and get back out there. I.

[01:12:27] Maya: No tears, no nothing, no show emotion.

[01:12:30] Jordan: Yeah,

[01:12:30] I personally, I am of the opinion that being open about your struggles and being able to be vulnerable and show where you and ask for help are, these are signs of strength.

[01:12:44] These are signs of self-awareness and and a strength that you're not afraid, like you're not afraid of what the repercussions might be for you showing weakness. I think, the archetypes of society tell you, men don't cry, men, 

[01:13:03] Maya: It's ingrained in you guys yeah. 

[01:13:05] Jordan: And, what are you some sort of sissy, what do you know? Go whatever. There's a lot of judgment and shame that comes in there, and so I don't even think, even if it's not said to you explicitly like that you've seen a hundred movies or TV shows where it's said to a character in that context

[01:13:20] Maya: So it's in you subconsciously, even if you're not realizing it. Yeah, for sure.

[01:13:25] Jordan: And there's also the thing where, you know, everybody I know is embarrassed for crying in front of a stranger. People are not, people are embarrassed about it. People get, oh, I'm so sorry. Even in compassionate friends groups, like I have a group in person, if somebody starts to break down and cry a little bit, they say, I'm sorry.

[01:13:42] This is not, this is the one place where you don't have to apologize for that. But it's such a knee-jerk reaction, I think that we have to, being vulnerable around other people is there's there that, that internal judgment is kicks in before any of our actual coping mechanisms do. And I think, even people that are willing to do the work, it's so hard to do it publicly.

[01:14:03] Putting this stuff out there in such a way like this is. Just too much for some people, I don't know. I don't know what I don't. I remember when I start, first started going to my T C F groups, I would count how many men were in the room. It was definitely many fewer of us.

[01:14:19] Maya: still can with our chapter here in Atlanta, like it's.

[01:14:23] Jordan: I will say this I am a co chapter leader and my other co chapter and my other co-leader, also a man.

[01:14:28] Maya: I know and that's really cool. I thought that was so cool. I think that's amazing, but it's pretty progressive for grief. Like we've got a long way to go with grief and expression and that's why the men that do come on the show, I'd like to ask this question because you guys have a similar message, but a different perspective.

[01:14:47] And I think that's really important that we get that out there and we make it Okay. Because I even see that within my own father, even though it's not sibling. But I see that, and I think all of us as sibs can relate to that for most of us. Seeing it in our fathers, right? Or seeing it in the male people in our lives so it's a message that I really wanna get out there.

[01:15:06] It's okay. It's okay. And I love what you've said, and I say the same thing, Jordan. Vulnerability is strength. It's, and I wish someone had told me that a long time ago because vulnerability is strength. And that's what we really need to empower everybody with. And I think that we will start to dissipate this image that men need to, don't cry.

[01:15:27] You're a sissy. Like everything that you're saying I connect with.

[01:15:29] Jordan: Yeah, the people for some reason, like people are afraid to ask for help because they think it's gonna show them as being weak. But I really think that when you're able to be honest with yourself about what your own abilities are, and that you need help, like that is, that's, I think it's a form of strength to ask for it to look for solutions, and that's a solution.

[01:15:49] Maya: I agree 150%. Thank you for giving your perspective on that. So before we wrap until everyone where to find you, 'cause you have so many things that you do.

[01:15:58] Jordan: have a lot.

[01:15:58] Maya: Any I know we're gonna talk about it.

[01:16:00] Jordan: all the plugs.

[01:16:01] Maya: I know we do. Any additional pieces of advice that you would give siblings? This is two decades on this journey for you.

[01:16:11] Anything that you, or if you could go back to Jordan two decades ago any pieces of advice that we missed maybe

[01:16:17] Jordan: Oh man. 

[01:16:17] Maya: Another episode. Jordan,

[01:16:19] Jordan: I definitely I definitely would not have listened to myself two decades ago. Any advice

[01:16:24] Maya: you go and talk yourself two decades ago, we'll go

[01:16:27] Jordan: I was talking to myself then, and I'm not, it wasn't, I'm sure I wasn't listening. I yeah, I think there are no shortcuts to this and I don't know. I think.

[01:16:41] There are so many ways that I have been able to use this stuff to propel me forward and not weigh me down. And the attempt is just as important as the result. That's my biggest message is that, life knocks you down all the time. And it's a cliche, it's not about how many times you get knocked down, it's about how many times you get back up.

[01:17:00] But that's really the case. The, especially with grief, every day is its own battle, and some days the grief wins, and some days I win and I just have to not give myself too much of a hard time when the grief wins because it's part of the process. And, failure is just information and how you can do better the next time.

[01:17:19] So I, I try to look at it from that perspective and, it's like comedy. I wrote a joke, it doesn't work every time. Some audiences like it, some audiences don't. Sometimes I'm not comfortable ta telling it. Sometimes it's out of context. Sometimes it's not in the right order of the in the set.

[01:17:35] Some who knows why the joke doesn't work sometimes, and sometimes it does. But I tell it, I get up and I tell it. So the same thing with grief. Some coping mechanisms work for a little while and then they stop working and you don't know why. But I get up and I try it again. I keep at it.

[01:17:52] It's the kind of what it is.

[01:17:56] Maya: It's about. That's beautiful. I love that. Thank you for sharing that. But yeah, I love what you're saying. It's about getting up and trying again and be willing to evolve with your grief because it will continue to evolve. So beautifully said. Jordan, where can we find you? So Jordan, you have your podcast.

[01:18:13] Where's the grief?

[01:18:14] Jordan: I have the podcast. Where's the Grief, which you are soon to be a guest on. We're gonna get that to happen soon. Whenever you know, you're not so crazy busy that you're recording 16 episodes a day.

[01:18:24] Maya: I can't. I cannot wait. And it's on all major platforms,

[01:18:28] Jordan: It's on all the platforms.

[01:18:30] Maya: everywhere.

[01:18:31] Jordan: yep. Wherever you get your podcast. You can also, if you're not a podcast savvy person, you can also just go to where's the grief.com and listen to it there.

[01:18:39] Maya: Perfect. And then obviously social media. Same handles

[01:18:43] Jordan: it's at, yeah, at Where's the Grief? On Twitter. And at Instagram. On Instagram. I also wanna just highlight my foundation, if I could for a moment.

[01:18:51] Maya: Yes.

[01:18:52] Jordan: family started a foundation in my brother Russell's memory. It's the Russell Ferber Foundation. You can go to russell ferber foundation.org to find out more about what we do, or it's also on Instagram at Russell Ferber Foundation. We have a full two year scholarship in Russell's name, in the culinary program in the pastry program at the Culinary Institute of America.

[01:19:11] Amongst our other beneficiaries, and we do a big fundraiser for the foundation every year at the end of June. Our next is coming up June 24th, I think. 2024.

[01:19:22] Maya: or 2024. Wow. It's gonna be a special year.

[01:19:25] Jordan: it's the last Wednesday in June and it is always the highlight of my year. It's a comedy show and a raffle and a silent auction.

[01:19:36] Maya: I was gonna say, I know you do a comedy show, so I know that's exciting for you as well. Very

[01:19:40] Jordan: gonna be June 26th.

[01:19:42] Maya: June 26th, 2024.

[01:19:44] Jordan: Yeah, that is correct.

[01:19:46] Maya: So we will link all of this in the show notes. Jordan amazing. Where's the grief? You guys? Check it out. A lot of people, we're intertwined at this point, which is very cool. But Jordan and I are very different hosts, which makes it fun.

[01:20:01] And he's on the other side of the mic today. So Jordan, thank you so much for sharing Russell's story, your story, your journey. And we'll also share compassionate friends, of course, because we want people to find their local

[01:20:12] Jordan: Yeah.

[01:20:14] Maya: So good to see you virtually, and thanks for being on the show.

[01:20:17] Jordan: Yeah. Thank you Maya. Thank you so much for having me. It's been an honor to be here and glad we finally got this together.

[01:20:23] Maya: Me too. My pleasure. And thank you guys so much for listening to the Surviving Something Podcast.

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