Lori Luna - Addressing Anger in Grief

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<Maya>Welcome to the Surviving Siblings podcast.

I'm your host, Maya Roffler. As a surviving sibling myself, I knew that I wanted to share my story, my brother's story. I lost my brother to a homicide in November 2016. And after going through this experience, I knew that I wanted to share my story and his story.And now it's your turn to share your stories.

 

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<Maya>Please note that this episode contains depictions and stories of siblings lost by homicide, suicide and or domestic violence. Some people may find these stories activating, triggering and or disturbing.Please see our show notes for additional resources and to understand the full content of the episode.

 

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<Maya>Hey guys, welcome back to the Surviving Siblings podcast.Today I have again another incredible guest with me.Her name is Lori Luna and we have a whole lot in common.She has also lost a brother to homicide.

 

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<Maya>Lori, welcome to the show.

 

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<Maya>Thank you for having me.

 

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<Maya>I am really excited to have you here.

 

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<Maya>It's always bittersweet right when we meet siblings that have lost siblings, especially in a similar fashion, but there's such a deep connection that happens so quickly.

 

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<Maya>So, lori, what I would love for you to do for us is kind of just jump in and tell us a little bit about Brian, who he was when he was here physically with us, and your relationship, and kind of paint that picture.

 

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<Maya>So I'm going to hand it over to you.

 

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<Lori>OK, well, again, thank you so much for having me, Maya.

 

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<Lori>This is really special.

 

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<Lori>Any chance I have to talk about my brother, I'm going to grab.

 

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<Lori>So May 26 of 2022, we lost Brian to a homicide and it's been very recent, but I'm at a place now where I want to start remembering him for how he lived and not how he died.

 

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<Lori>So this was a really great opportunity to talk about him.

 

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<Lori>But Brian was he was 47 when he passed.

 

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<Lori>He was a very funny, very quick-witted human being.

 

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<Lori>He was kind.

 

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<Lori>He said yes, sir, and yes, ma'am, and we're not from the South, we're from Southern California.

 

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<Lori>He was a gentleman, and I think a lot of that comes from the fact that Brian was a little person.

 

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<Lori>He was born in a connoisseur dwarf and he had a pretty rough rough emotionally his life, Because people think that if you're short, you're dumb, and I'm eight years older than he and so I was his protector, you know.

 

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<Lori>I mean he was born in 1975.

 

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<Lori>So people didn't really know enough.

 

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<Lori>Like Peter Dinklage, there was no Game of Thrones, there was no Peter Dinklage, the actor who could really shed some light on that.

 

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<Lori>Look, he's just short, that's all.

 

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<Lori>And so I mean there were times, literally, when I would get in fights to protect my brother.

 

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<Maya>Oh my gosh, you were that sassy older sister Like oh my gosh.

 

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<Lori>I love that.

 

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<Lori>Yeah, and I think that's also been one of the hard parts is that I wasn't there to protect my brother.

 

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<Lori>That really, really has been something that I've worked through a lot with my coach, because I decided to go through a therapy process a little bit different.

 

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<Lori>So I found a grief coach and I've really been working on that, and so what happened to him was at some point.

 

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<Lori>He was found at 526 AM on the 26th of May.

 

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<Lori>He probably passed away around 2 o'clock in the morning.

 

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<Lori>The person that killed him was a stranger to us and I'm 100% sure it was a stranger to my brother.

 

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<Lori>There were some drugs and alcohol involved.

 

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<Lori>We all make bad choices and this particular person, from what we know, it's hard to tell because what I call I can't use bad words on here so what I call the POS he pushed my brother.

 

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<Lori>He either knocked him out in advance, but he pushed him out of the car and he was unconscious, and then he ran over him with his own car and he stole his car so he died of acute asphyxiation.

 

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<Maya>Which, for anybody who doesn't know what that is, can you define that for us?

 

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<Maya>Because?

 

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<Lori>we're sure everyone knows, yes, laurie.

 

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<Lori>It means that his chest was basically crushed by his own car and he couldn't breathe Right.

 

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<Lori>And so it was.

 

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<Lori>You know, I mean, when we finally got that detail, that obviously was challenging.

 

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<Lori>But at the beginning we didn't know what was going on Because, like you say so many of your interviews and so many of your own episodes, you know, I got the call.

 

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<Maya>Yes, the moment.

 

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<Maya>We never forget right the call.

 

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<Maya>So who called you?

 

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<Maya>My dad called.

 

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<Lori>My dad called Because the police showed up at his doorstep and it was two detectives and one officer and at the time they thought it was a hit and run Because my brother's, or a carjacking, because my brother's car had been stolen, his wallet had been stolen, his phone had been stolen, and so the thought was it was a carjacking.

 

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<Maya>Which I would.

 

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<Maya>I could naturally see that being thought right In the beginning.

 

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<Lori>Yeah, Right, and then I had to do what you had to do and I had to call my mother.

 

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<Lori>You had to call your father, I had to call my mom and like nobody should have to make these calls, I've decided that nobody and I don't know.

 

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<Lori>Now my phone rings and I'm like what's matter?

 

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<Lori>Like if I don't, if somebody doesn't call, text me and say I'm going to call you, I panic the minute my phone rings.

 

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<Maya>I have chills with you saying that right now, Laurie, because it's interesting.

 

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<Maya>Today I was sharing with you.

 

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<Maya>I was at an event this morning.

 

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<Lori>We both do events for a living.

 

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<Lori>I love that.

 

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<Maya>Love, that we have that connection, that's a positive connection.

 

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<Maya>Positive connection, we'll take the win.

 

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<Maya>And my very close girlfriend that I talk about on seasons, who lost her mother two weeks before I lost my brother, whenever she will call me and if I can't answer or if I don't answer, she'll always text me.

 

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<Maya>She's like hey, just wanting to chat, just wanting I mean, we're besties.

 

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<Maya>But she'll always say not an emergency, everything's.

 

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<Maya>OK, not an emergency, because we have that understanding.

 

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<Maya>So I instantly went to that when you said that, because it's something that no one else will understand other than us and all of you guys listening who have gotten the call, which most of us have or had to give the call, or had to give the call, yeah, and that was pretty awful.

 

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<Lori>That was pretty awful.

 

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<Lori>It was awful to hear my father and his anguish, and then it was awful Because we didn't know, I didn't, you know, and my parents both live inside of 10 miles of me.

 

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<Lori>So because my parents are divorced like your parents, we have a lot of come.

 

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<Maya>We really do, Lori Little did we know we have so much of come, so they contacted or they showed up at your mother's house.

 

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<Maya>No, they showed up at my father's house.

 

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<Lori>Father's house.

 

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<Lori>Ok, and my dad called me, and then I had to call my mom.

 

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<Lori>What you're on Got it and then I went and picked her up and we drove to my dad's and that the police were there and you know, I mean it was just.

 

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<Lori>This doesn't happen to us, this happens, to quote other people.

 

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<Maya>Right.

 

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<Lori>You know, I mean, I used to watch Dateline.

 

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<Lori>This happens to other people.

 

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<Lori>I don't watch any of that stuff anymore, I can't, but this happens to other people.

 

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<Lori>It doesn't happen to my family, it doesn't happen to your family, it doesn't happen to our collective families.

 

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<Lori>And yet here we are, happening to our family and it just was very surreal.

 

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<Lori>And I'm sure you know, I know you had to deal with the police and you just wait.

 

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<Lori>What?

 

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<Lori>What are you talking?

 

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<Lori>You know, this is like your brain just can't process this, and that's how it was for us.

 

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<Lori>Like I just felt like this, this doesn't make any sense Because, see, my brother's car was his freedom, you know, as long as he had gas and a cell phone, with a charge, he was cruising, yeah, he was out and about visiting his friends and doing, you know doing what he was doing and so to hear someone hit him with his own car and then his car was stolen, it's like it had to be a car tracking, but it wasn't, did you?

 

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<Maya>feel like when you got that information, like did it feel wrong right away to you?

 

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<Maya>Oh, yeah, Like yeah, yeah, I feel like that sister or brother intuition right when we're not connected.

 

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<Maya>It felt wrong to you.

 

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<Maya>Yeah, I was like.

 

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<Lori>None of this is making sense.

 

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<Lori>This doesn't make sense and you know, at this point both my parents go into this sort of comatose and I'm very much a type A.

 

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<Lori>You have to be with what we do.

 

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<Maya>Literally, we're in planters.

 

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<Maya>Oh my god, it's in our blood.

 

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<Lori>I'm the eldest sibling.

 

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<Maya>Me too yeah.

 

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<Lori>And what do we do?

 

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<Lori>We take care of things.

 

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<Lori>It's like I think you said it in your first season, your first episode, first season.

 

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<Lori>You were going after that, you needed to know the know, you needed to know what happened, and that's the mode I went into is problem solving.

 

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<Lori>I became the point of contact with the detective Because, honestly, the truth was my parents couldn't function.

 

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<Maya>Right, and so we take that on and I find that you know, there's a lot of.

 

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<Maya>It's interesting because, as I've done so many of these episodes and as I do lives and talk to so many siblings and now, unfortunately, you're in the community too, Laurie, so you're going to continue to hear this as well, but for sure you've already heard so much about it.

 

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<Maya>It's, you know, as the oldest.

 

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<Maya>It's kind of like the natural born order that it happens, but there's very often siblings that also take on that role too, depending on the capacity for other siblings.

 

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<Maya>So it's just interesting to hear different stories, but we definitely have that in common.

 

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<Maya>It's a mode we've had to go into for so much of our lives, so that clicks on, even in such a traumatic situation.

 

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<Maya>So it's very interesting to me that this happened to you as well, but also not surprising.

 

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<Lori>Yeah.

 

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<Lori>Yeah, yeah, it was.

 

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<Maya>So when you guys were connecting and all of that and this was all happening?

 

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<Maya>Were you sitting in?

 

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<Maya>You know, you're like where did you go down to the precinct?

 

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<Maya>Did you sit in a home, Like, talk us through that a little bit, so we can kind?

 

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<Maya>of paint the picture.

 

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<Maya>Yeah, we hope you're enjoying this incredible episode of the Surviving Siblings podcast.

 

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<Maya>I'm your host, maya Roffler.

 

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<Maya>We'll be back in just a minute after hearing from our incredible sponsor.

 

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<Maya>Are you a bereaved sibling, a forgotten mourner, or, as we call it here on the Surviving Siblings podcast, a surviving sibling?

 

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<Maya>Well, I am too.

 

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<Maya>My name is Maya and I'm the host of the Surviving Siblings podcast.

 

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<Maya>I created this show for siblings just like you to help you along your grief journey, and now I've created even more resources to help you along this life long journey.

 

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<Maya>I wrote the grief guide for the surviving siblings so that you and I can travel along this journey together.

 

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<Maya>Within the guide, it has prompts to help you with a validation exercise that helps you validate your feelings of grief.

 

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<Maya>We also talk about the stages of grief, and we also have a timeline exercise that helps you journal as you continue along your grief journey.

 

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<Maya>I share tips throughout the guide on my personal grief journey as well and what worked for me.

 

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<Maya>You can find this guide on Amazoncom.

 

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<Maya>You can also click the link in the show notes and, of course, you can visit our incredible website, thesurvivingsiblingscom.

 

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<Maya>So make sure to visit thesurvivingsiblingscom for more information, and don't forget to order your grief guide today.

 

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<Lori>Yeah.

 

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<Lori>So, like I said, the two detectives and the police officer they showed up at my dad's and we were sitting at my dad's kitchen table and they were telling us what they knew.

 

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<Lori>At the time it was a Thursday and then my mom was telling her what she knew and my dad was talking about what he knew because everybody was trying to piece together.

 

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<Lori>The last time they talked to Brian he was on my phone plan and so I'm like, oh, let me, because they said they couldn't find his phone.

 

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<Lori>I'm like, oh, let me see if he had given me access.

 

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<Lori>Of course he hadn't.

 

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<Lori>So to this day that phone is still in the ether, as his wallet is, and all that other stuff.

 

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<Lori>But it just felt like I was kind of hovering above, watching everything.

 

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<Lori>It didn't feel real.

 

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<Lori>And they're saying all these words are coming out but nothing is making sense.

 

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<Lori>And I mean I understand the words, I'm comprehending the words, but what they're saying I'm like, no, there's more to this, there's something else and I don't know what it is.

 

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<Lori>And it was the next day when the detective called me and said his department would be handling it and his card says homicide division that took on a whole different detective than you were saying Second detective, no same detective.

 

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<Maya>Same detective, but he had actually said okay, I am taking this on now, this is a homicide, he called the next day.

 

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<Maya>Wow, that's a lot of confirmation in a short amount of time, though, in my opinion, when you are like something's not right and then to receive that, is that how you felt?

 

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<Lori>Or yeah, it was very fast.

 

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<Lori>But then what I felt was okay, what do you know about this guy?

 

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<Lori>Well, they won't tell you.

 

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<Lori>I don't know if you remember this.

 

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<Lori>They won't tell me Totally.

 

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<Maya>Oh, you're giving me chills.

 

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<Maya>It is like they I don't know if you heard this or recall this from my season or if you guys do, but the detective that got assigned to my case, who ended up being quite corrupt and really referred to these guys as upstanding- gentlemen, gentlemen, yes, I recall that, and they called that destiny to this day.

 

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<Maya>I've had to do a lot of work on that.

 

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<Maya>So yeah, they won't tell you a whole lot.

 

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<Lori>Right, because it's an active case, exactly, and I was like you got to tell me something because you know what.

 

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<Lori>Here's the thing I was going to go take care of business myself and I don't know how I was like once I found out a little bit of information about where this all happened.

 

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<Lori>I started driving around.

 

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<Lori>I started driving around but then at the same time I had to tell myself stop doing this, because I couldn't be the reason that something went wrong.

 

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<Lori>I was so nervous that if I did something that would jeopardize getting.

 

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<Lori>At the time I called justice.

 

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<Lori>Now I call punishment, because there is no justice, our legal system, which we can talk about, but the legal system is completely in, just if you ask me, you know.

 

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<Lori>But kind of like you, I was Okay, get the facts, get the facts.

 

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<Lori>And there were so many things that started happening, even though they wouldn't tell me who the person was and they wouldn't tell me what they knew Like.

 

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<Lori>They found my brother's car the next day and so then it was impounded because this person had abandoned the car.

 

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<Lori>So then I'm the one that went and got my brother's personal belongings out of it once it was released by the police, and that was a whole flood of emotions because at the time I didn't have a lot of the details, so I didn't know.

 

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<Lori>And you know, I knew my brother had been hit by this car, but I didn't know, like all the specifics.

 

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<Lori>And so there I am inside of his car getting the belongings this person didn't steal and just literally buckling.

 

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<Lori>Yeah.

 

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<Maya>Yeah, what did you know prior to going there?

 

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<Maya>I mean, like everything that you shared right now, was there anything else that you knew?

 

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<Maya>Because I feel like you've said so eloquently already, like we just go into this like gotta make it happen mode, gotta take care of it mode.

 

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<Maya>But I mean, did they tell you where the car was left?

 

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<Maya>Did they tell you how far away it was from where he was?

 

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<Maya>Did you know any of that yet, or was everything just still such a fog and up in the air?

 

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<Lori>The car was found about, I want to say about 20 miles east, west rather, of where my brother was murdered and at the time I in my head, my head, was saying he got hit by the car, hit by the car.

 

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<Lori>So that was different than being run over by a car, totally Right.

 

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<Lori>So you know, going to the car to get whatever personal belongings were still there, you know this was the weapon.

 

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<Lori>It was, it was it is.

 

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<Lori>It is the weapon you know, and we ended up forfeiting the car to the impound lot and said they could sell it.

 

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<Lori>We don't want it.

 

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<Lori>We don't want the weapon.

 

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<Lori>That would be like handing somebody the gun you know like.

 

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<Lori>You don't want it Absolutely.

 

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<Lori>Oh my God, exactly I can't, and I'm sure all of you, who you know?

 

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<Maya>have you know whether it's a knife, a gun or whatever?

 

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<Maya>It is right.

 

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<Maya>Car, whatever it is you don't want.

 

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<Maya>I mean, I would never even want to see that, right, I would never even say my heart again just completely goes out to you.

 

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<Maya>But what's interesting to me and a question I have for you in this Lori is was that taken in, though for evidence?

 

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<Maya>Yes, because the car was okay, okay, so can you share a little bit about that and we'll, and we'll come back to the evolution of the story.

 

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<Maya>But yeah because I'm curious about that.

 

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<Maya>I'm sure all of you guys listening will be curious about this as well.

 

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<Lori>or are curious Because if it goes to the impound, then it went to the police, the police garage first, so it was it was it was located, and the police had put some sort of you know, I don't know, whatever the APB be on the lookout, whatever they do for cars, you know.

 

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<Lori>And so when it was towed it went straight to the police, this lab, and so by the time it was released to us there were like little flags in different places and you saw that, and I saw that and I thought, see, now that this is still like white, what you know, I still don't know what those things mean.

 

21:28.788 --> 21:42.781

<Lori>I will, I will never know what those things mean and I took pictures of the car, not knowing at the time the exact way that my brother had been killed.

 

21:43.630 --> 21:45.885

<Lori>Again, I thought he had been hit by the car.

 

21:46.592 --> 21:46.895

<Lori>I didn't.

 

21:46.915 --> 21:48.889

<Lori>You know what I mean, and that's.

 

21:49.491 --> 21:49.732

<Maya>I do.

 

21:50.326 --> 21:51.348

<Lori>So it.

 

21:52.169 --> 21:56.277

<Lori>I think if I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have taken pictures of that car.

 

21:56.337 --> 22:01.013

<Lori>Obviously, Sure, but there was no way.

 

22:01.093 --> 22:19.865

<Lori>My parents could go and my best friend was in town from Chicago because she got on a plane and flew out here and she was sitting in my car waiting for me and I took a couple of boxes because I didn't know what would be in there and there were just you know, a couple of things that he had in his car that I wanted to make sure I took.

 

22:20.066 --> 22:29.398

<Lori>But I, I don't know, and I was just in hindsight, you know, I think I was just sort of in a zombie mode.

 

22:30.168 --> 22:39.514

<Lori>I was just getting through, I was just checking off boxes, get his things you know right in obituary, right, All those things that you have to do.

 

22:39.885 --> 22:55.875

<Lori>And I, it took me a while to kind of process it and what it really, when you find out what it really means and thinking, oh my God, I was right there with the, the way I was right there with the weapon startling.

 

22:57.226 --> 22:59.855

<Maya>That is such a moment right.

 

22:59.905 --> 23:01.727

<Maya>When you when you look back on that.

 

23:02.308 --> 23:03.609

<Maya>You know I can't even.

 

23:04.390 --> 23:10.236

<Maya>You know I know the site where my brother was killed, but unfortunately I've never had to see the gun.

 

23:10.337 --> 23:27.865

<Maya>But it's a very similar sentiment where you're just like it's very eerie and when you're in that zone, like you're describing Lori, you're just kind of disassociated a little bit, and it's not necessarily right and it's not necessarily in a negative way.

 

23:28.486 --> 23:35.865

<Maya>It's in a way so that you can survive, but also so that you can execute things for your family.

 

23:36.289 --> 23:46.339

<Maya>You can really be there for your family, and this is not something that I would ever wish on anyone because it's not something that we come into this world.

 

23:47.288 --> 23:49.885

<Maya>You know, as a child, you're not expecting to do that.

 

23:49.965 --> 24:00.956

<Maya>You're expecting, like your parents, to protect you and provide for you and all of that and regardless of age right, and we know the natural progression of life like one day we'll take care of our parents and you know that's, that's whole.

 

24:00.976 --> 24:01.658

<Maya>That's whole thing.

 

24:02.025 --> 24:02.907

<Maya>This kind of stuff.

 

24:02.927 --> 24:07.455

<Maya>There was a wrench in the entire ecosystem of a family, Absolutely.

 

24:07.475 --> 24:08.858

<Lori>And that's where it gets different.

 

24:09.218 --> 24:14.677

<Lori>Yeah, I mean, my brother and I were supposed to finish this life together Completely.

 

24:15.406 --> 24:17.553

<Lori>I wasn't supposed to become an only child.

 

24:17.994 --> 24:20.723

<Maya>Right, which is a whole other thing.

 

24:20.784 --> 24:26.142

<Maya>Right, because we talk about this a lot in our groups, lori.

 

24:26.163 --> 24:28.610

<Maya>We talk about this a lot, I mean just in sibling loss.

 

24:28.650 --> 24:30.355

<Maya>In general, we talk about it on the show.

 

24:30.896 --> 24:35.008

<Maya>But let's hone into this for just a second, and then when?

 

24:35.028 --> 24:40.845

<Maya>I continue with Brian's story, but you just keep bringing up some really good points.

 

24:41.509 --> 24:45.973

<Maya>You didn't expect to be an only child and this is something that I have a lot of.

 

24:46.054 --> 25:00.369

<Maya>You guys reach out to me and say, like I'm now the only sister, I'm now the oldest and I was the youngest, or like I'm now a middle, or I'm now you know all these different, you know changes, right, and for me I'm still the oldest.

 

25:00.469 --> 25:07.339

<Maya>You know, I have two other sisters, but we don't have a brother physically here in this world anymore, because I still believe in the spiritual aspect.

 

25:07.946 --> 25:08.653

<Maya>That's just my own belief.

 

25:10.186 --> 25:22.836

<Maya>But that was an ecosystem change for us in the family, along with a lot of the drama, and for you, you're an only child now, but you're not an only child.

 

25:22.856 --> 25:23.236

<Maya>But I'm not.

 

25:23.257 --> 25:24.218

<Maya>You have a brother.

 

25:24.885 --> 25:27.714

<Maya>I think that's a really, really good point to drive home.

 

25:27.885 --> 25:33.337

<Maya>So how have you, you know, pulled that through as you continue to process this loss?

 

25:33.357 --> 25:35.522

<Maya>Because you are not an only child.

 

25:35.782 --> 25:38.732

<Maya>I've always been the oldest, you will always have a brother, right.

 

25:38.885 --> 25:49.491

<Maya>But I think sometimes that messes with people's minds and they're like I'm an only child now, or I'm the youngest now, or I don't have a brother, I don't have a sister now, right, and that's not true.

 

25:49.945 --> 25:53.041

<Maya>But how do we work through that when they're not physically here with us anymore?

 

25:53.061 --> 25:53.885

<Maya>I'm curious about your opinion on that.

 

25:54.794 --> 26:06.702

<Lori>Yeah, it's definitely not easy, but I still say, I still, I still say when I speak about him, I still talk about him in the present tense.

 

26:08.004 --> 26:08.885

<Maya>Guilty, me too.

 

26:10.833 --> 26:12.640

<Lori>He will always be my brother.

 

26:13.142 --> 26:13.463

<Maya>Amen.

 

26:13.765 --> 26:17.724

<Lori>Right, he's just, he's just not here in the physical world, like you said.

 

26:19.328 --> 26:24.297

<Lori>And you know I have a sort of the same spiritual.

 

26:25.138 --> 26:50.103

<Lori>You know I I just don't know how's that, I don't know, I want to believe in a heaven, I want to believe in all that, but I know that it's there's a lot of conversation about well, how do you, if somebody asks you if you have a sibling, I say yes, and sometimes I can tell, I can say what happened, and sometimes I leave it right there, right.

 

26:51.005 --> 27:07.618

<Lori>It depends on my mood that day and who I'm talking with, because, you know, I I have found it important to protect my brother's story and his integrity, and it's it's still my job to protect my brother.

 

27:10.920 --> 27:11.805

<Maya>That's a big sis job.

 

27:12.487 --> 27:14.713

<Lori>It is, it's our job, it's our job.

 

27:15.054 --> 27:32.696

<Maya>It's our job and it's so important and I I feel like it's so important in sharing your story that we give that message to all of you listening, because it's okay to continue that job, oh yeah, for the rest of our lives, because it's really important.

 

27:32.945 --> 27:37.436

<Maya>And I love what you're saying, though, lori, because this is something that comes up a whole lot.

 

27:37.885 --> 27:44.258

<Maya>This is like in the top three to five questions that we struggle with when we go through this loss.

 

27:44.318 --> 27:47.271

<Maya>Right, how many siblings do you have, right, do?

 

27:47.311 --> 28:02.801

<Maya>you have siblings, right, and I talk about this on multiple episodes, but it I never get tired of asking my incredible guests, like you, about this, because we all have similar but also unique responses to this.

 

28:03.025 --> 28:12.720

<Maya>And I'm really blown away with you so early in your grief journey because you know, there's people who are 10, 20 years into this and are just now opening up.

 

28:12.885 --> 28:18.885

<Maya>And then there's some people that are like I'm ready now, like I'm going to open up and doesn't, because it's grief for life.

 

28:19.666 --> 28:21.128

<Maya>But you're saying something.

 

28:21.970 --> 28:25.435

<Maya>What you said was so beautiful because you said that.

 

28:26.156 --> 28:28.059

<Maya>You know it depends on who I'm talking to.

 

28:29.305 --> 28:41.518

<Maya>And that's something that took me, again blown away by you because that took me time, because I it was almost like trying on shoes or like a coat or you know clothing, which I absolutely hate to do.

 

28:41.939 --> 28:43.040

<Lori>Me too, I'm not that kind of person.

 

28:43.240 --> 28:43.761

<Maya>I don't like trying.

 

28:44.905 --> 28:45.166

<Maya>I love I'm a.

 

28:45.186 --> 28:46.489

<Maya>I'm a clothing, like you know.

 

28:46.970 --> 28:48.794

<Maya>Again, we'll keep it PG, but I'm a clothing.

 

28:48.834 --> 28:49.395

<Maya>You know what?

 

28:49.575 --> 28:52.108

<Maya>Right right, and I have so many shoes but I don't want to try them on.

 

28:52.129 --> 28:52.610

<Maya>I want to know my brand.

 

28:52.630 --> 28:56.429

<Maya>I want to order them and want to be done with it, but I'll ship it back if it doesn't fit.

 

28:56.970 --> 29:17.478

<Maya>Amen, it says that yes, but I don't want to actually do it, and so trying on these different responses was so freaking uncomfortable for me, and so I think you've just given such a beautiful piece of advice that took me years to get to really just feel within yourself.

 

29:17.779 --> 29:20.228

<Maya>Who are you speaking to, like you know?

 

29:20.770 --> 29:22.013

<Maya>Yep, I have a brother.

 

29:22.715 --> 29:23.436

<Maya>Let's keep it moving.

 

29:24.688 --> 29:25.510

<Maya>I'm not comfortable with you.

 

29:25.932 --> 29:26.875

<Maya>That's kind of like right.

 

29:27.126 --> 29:29.091

<Maya>I mean, that's how I would perceive it and think about it.

 

29:29.131 --> 29:30.114

<Lori>That's exactly how it is.

 

29:30.576 --> 29:30.796

<Maya>Right.

 

29:31.328 --> 29:33.885

<Maya>But if somebody asks you and they're like, well, how many siblings do you have?

 

29:34.126 --> 29:46.885

<Maya>And you know, and you, you, you can feel empathy from people, you can feel you can really I feel like loss changes you to a point where you can really feel who you're safe with, and that's something that changes things.

 

29:47.126 --> 29:53.391

<Maya>So thank you for bringing that up, because it's a question I get all the time how do I handle this question?

 

29:54.005 --> 29:56.993

<Maya>You need to navigate it yourself, but we can give you a lot of advice.

 

29:57.093 --> 29:58.877

<Maya>But find out what fits for you.

 

29:59.146 --> 30:02.473

<Maya>Find the shoe that fits for you in that question.

 

30:02.774 --> 30:04.878

<Lori>Yeah, it really is like that.

 

30:05.226 --> 30:12.918

<Lori>And and also, like I said, you know, protecting my brother's, his, his story, his integrity, his, you know, protecting him.

 

30:14.266 --> 30:15.631

<Lori>Everybody doesn't deserve his story.

 

30:17.607 --> 30:27.515

<Lori>You know, I'm talking to you because it's important for the, for your audience and your listeners and other people that share the experience you and I share.

 

30:28.337 --> 30:28.538

<Maya>Yes.

 

30:28.945 --> 30:29.025

<Lori>I.

 

30:29.266 --> 30:34.865

<Lori>It's something I never thought would happen in my life and I'm not going to be someone's gossip.

 

30:35.146 --> 30:42.274

<Lori>My brother is not going to be someone's gossip and so I'm pretty protective still and I suspect I always will be.

 

30:42.295 --> 30:52.307

<Maya>About his story, I can tell you just a few years ahead of you in this journey and you know it's um again we, I can tell you just a few years ahead of you in this journey, and you know it's um again we, I can tell you just a few years ahead of you in this journey, Again we.

 

30:52.929 --> 30:56.885

<Maya>I call grief a snowflake all the time, because everyone is unique, every story is unique.

 

30:57.547 --> 31:12.885

<Maya>Even though we can connect, you know, because we've lost our brothers to homicide and that's a huge connection, but it's just really blown me away in doing these support groups and doing this show and doing so many things in this community as we continue to grow.

 

31:13.687 --> 31:20.129

<Maya>There isn't a single sibling that has lost, a sibling that I can't connect with on some level, and it's that.

 

31:20.249 --> 31:29.451

<Maya>It's that unique, but at the same point we're all different and that's why I don't need to make it too woo woo, but we, we really are all snowflakes, so we have our own unique story.

 

31:29.905 --> 31:38.598

<Maya>No, no, two stories are the same and I think respecting that and honoring that is is really huge and important in this process.

 

31:39.005 --> 31:40.210

<Lori>It is it is.

 

31:41.566 --> 31:44.891

<Maya>So tell us a little bit about what happened.

 

31:45.011 --> 31:47.955

<Maya>As hard as this is what happened next with.

 

31:48.215 --> 31:54.865

<Maya>With Brian, as you continued on your your you sound so much like me on your mission because we've got the car.

 

31:55.647 --> 31:57.472

<Maya>We see all of these things going on.

 

31:57.573 --> 31:58.555

<Maya>Yes, what was next?

 

31:58.905 --> 32:00.611

<Maya>Did you guys do a celebration of life?

 

32:00.671 --> 32:02.648

<Maya>Was there a funeral, kind of walk us?

 

32:02.688 --> 32:04.132

<Maya>Through what happened next?

 

32:04.213 --> 32:13.090

<Lori>Yeah, so what was next was talking to the district just deputy district attorney, because I skipped a big part they, they caught him.

 

32:13.885 --> 32:17.885

<Lori>They caught the guy about six weeks after and what happened?

 

32:18.451 --> 32:19.885

<Lori>Oh, he was committing another crime.

 

32:20.848 --> 32:22.453

<Lori>Oh, he was committing another crime.

 

32:23.186 --> 32:28.845

<Lori>There had been, there had been some people who spotted my brother's car.

 

32:29.226 --> 32:47.316

<Lori>There had been cameras and this is when big brother is kind of a good thing, because there was, they were able to catch my brother's car on video cameras in the city and so then they had a description and then they got called to a scene of a basically a burglary.

 

32:47.885 --> 32:56.097

<Lori>He was in a convenience store or something like that, and so he was committing another crime and he was already a once once convicted felon.

 

32:57.647 --> 33:00.295

<Lori>They, yeah, he's a real winner, 28 years old, real winner.

 

33:01.506 --> 33:03.550

<Lori>But he, he was arrested.

 

33:03.850 --> 33:11.609

<Lori>And I got another phone call and it was the detective and he said you know.

 

33:11.649 --> 33:14.296

<Lori>He said hi, lori, it's you know, detective, so-and-so.

 

33:14.376 --> 33:17.983

<Lori>And I said you're only calling because you caught him.

 

33:19.385 --> 33:20.608

<Lori>You knew, I knew.

 

33:21.455 --> 33:22.679

<Lori>And he said that's exactly what I'm calling.

 

33:22.880 --> 33:25.701

<Lori>We caught him, and I just I literally fell to my knees.

 

33:26.835 --> 33:34.268

<Lori>I was home by myself and I fell to my knees and just cried.

 

33:35.555 --> 33:38.625

<Lori>I have relief out of grief, out of anger.

 

33:39.015 --> 33:41.503

<Lori>I mean every emotion was bubbling.

 

33:42.775 --> 33:45.184

<Lori>And he said do you want to call your parents and tell them?

 

33:45.235 --> 33:47.999

<Lori>I said, no, you need the call, they need to hear from you.

 

33:48.955 --> 34:00.643

<Lori>And he made those next two calls and so then, probably a week later, I got a call from the deputy district attorney saying they were going to, they were going to press charges.

 

34:00.844 --> 34:09.286

<Lori>And that's where the the legal nightmare begins for anybody who is going through this or has gone through this.

 

34:10.595 --> 34:22.060

<Lori>It took it took 15 months, from the date my brother was killed to the date that the murderer was sentenced.

 

34:22.695 --> 34:23.457

<Lori>It took 15 months.

 

34:23.978 --> 34:25.962

<Lori>And that is nothing.

 

34:26.564 --> 34:28.548

<Lori>That was fast, that was fast.

 

34:28.836 --> 34:36.124

<Lori>But see, we were told a little probably, and the legal system calls it resolve, cause the case gets resolved.

 

34:36.175 --> 34:42.576

<Lori>I mean, you're just nothing but a number, and it's so hard because you know, brian wasn't a number, brian.

 

34:42.596 --> 34:48.720

<Lori>Brian was a human, he is a human, and yet the legal system treats you.

 

34:49.462 --> 34:50.464

<Lori>You're just a case number.

 

34:51.475 --> 34:54.505

<Lori>And but we got really lucky with our deputy district attorney.

 

34:54.675 --> 35:05.303

<Lori>She was lovely and the most human person, but but she said look, you know, we think it'll resolve quickly Six months, because it's really cut and dry.

 

35:05.575 --> 35:18.879

<Lori>Our witnesses are, you know, cops and we have certain things and you know we're going to go for for, you know, 17 to 20, we're going to go for murder one 15,.

 

35:19.099 --> 35:21.205

<Lori>15 months later he got 12 years.

 

35:22.555 --> 35:30.427

<Lori>It was voluntary manslaughter and the legal system is kind of messed up.

 

35:31.229 --> 35:50.621

<Lori>Yeah, and so you know we had that sets the fast forward, you know, but it was 15 months of every month there being a delay and the public defender just dragging her feet and now was this you?

 

35:50.761 --> 35:52.526

<Maya>this was who was representing you guys.

 

35:52.566 --> 35:56.065

<Maya>Right, you had a public defender representing the public defender was representing him.

 

35:56.155 --> 35:58.518

<Lori>The district attorney represents my brother.

 

35:58.598 --> 36:01.381

<Maya>Represents the state wanted to clarify Yep.

 

36:01.482 --> 36:03.424

<Lori>Yes, sorry, thank you.

 

36:03.584 --> 36:05.146

<Maya>Nope, no problem, yep yeah.

 

36:05.646 --> 36:12.521

<Lori>So the public defender who represented the month, the murderer, monster, whatever words I'd come up with at any given time.

 

36:13.915 --> 36:19.661

<Lori>She dragged her feet because of course you know he's incarcerated, she'll get to it when she gets to it, never mind.

 

36:20.355 --> 36:28.581

<Lori>My family is literally going through legal purgatory Like we're just you're grieving, you're going through legal hell.

 

36:28.835 --> 36:31.785

<Maya>I mean like, I mean those are, those are secondary things.

 

36:31.855 --> 36:33.521

<Maya>I mean you're grieving right.

 

36:34.355 --> 36:36.019

<Maya>And for that particular person.

 

36:36.380 --> 36:42.925

<Maya>I'm not saying public defenders are the worst people in the world, Like, please, if any of you guys listen to this, you're not the worst people in the world.

 

36:43.295 --> 36:49.783

<Maya>But, the reality is, when you have somebody that is guilty as sin and they're already incarcerated, they're not a priority for you.

 

36:50.315 --> 37:10.724

<Maya>That's exactly what I love that you're bringing this up, because this is these are things that I get asked all the time, because I did not even get to go to this, this part of the system, but I've been so exposed to it because of the work that I've been doing for a couple years now, and so I love that you're sharing from your perspective.

 

37:11.195 --> 37:17.301

<Maya>I hate that you've been through it but, I love that you're able to share this with us because this is very real.

 

37:17.815 --> 37:18.779

<Lori>This is very real.

 

37:19.261 --> 37:28.444

<Lori>Yeah, I mean, I spent a lot of days just driving to the courthouse and then I got to a point where I would say, do I even need to bother coming?

 

37:29.756 --> 37:33.858

<Lori>And because if it's just going to be delayed, I don't want to see this person who took my brother's life.

 

37:34.555 --> 37:43.608

<Lori>So I stopped going, my mom stopped going, my dad stopped going, we went to the first one, the second one, and then it wasn't until the end that we started going again.

 

37:44.175 --> 37:52.985

<Lori>But while that's happening, while this legal process is happening now we need to we did a celebration of life because my brother hated funerals.

 

37:53.935 --> 38:02.444

<Lori>He would not go, he avoided them like the plague, and so we said, okay, we're not going to do that.

 

38:02.955 --> 38:11.924

<Lori>And so we did a celebration of life and, believe it or not, I know this is, it's not a funny thing, but it's a little bit like a little giggle.

 

38:12.275 --> 38:20.062

<Lori>There was a theme, because I am a corporate planner, I'm an event planner, and so I'm a twin, I know I get it.

 

38:21.435 --> 38:28.347

<Lori>My brother loves sports and so the gal at the at the marchwear she said make it personal.

 

38:29.255 --> 38:34.365

<Lori>And she she recommended, like we encourage people to wear jerseys of their favorite team.

 

38:34.405 --> 38:35.086

<Lori>My brother loved it.

 

38:35.107 --> 38:35.627

<Maya>Oh, I love that.

 

38:36.435 --> 38:41.404

<Lori>He loves the, he loved the Lakers, he loved the Denver Broncos.

 

38:41.595 --> 38:44.805

<Lori>So it, and some people are like, is it okay if I wear my favorite?

 

38:44.835 --> 38:50.085

<Lori>I'm like, absolutely, but like the invitation so I could see how many people were coming, because we had food.

 

38:50.675 --> 38:54.904

<Lori>It was a, it was a ticket to a, to a sporting event, you know.

 

38:55.525 --> 38:56.848

<Lori>So that it Okay.

 

38:57.435 --> 39:02.258

<Maya>So you know, I'm totally geeking out over this and every part of this already, because this is something I would do.

 

39:02.358 --> 39:03.961

<Maya>I love this, oh my God.

 

39:03.981 --> 39:06.546

<Maya>Yeah, we are all about the details, all about the details.

 

39:06.726 --> 39:07.167

<Maya>I love that.

 

39:08.395 --> 39:12.523

<Lori>And at the same time, you know, while that is making it special, you're writing.

 

39:12.603 --> 39:19.482

<Lori>I'm writing a eulogy, I'm writing an obituary, I'm I'm having to pick music, I'm having to put photos together.

 

39:19.735 --> 39:31.142

<Lori>My parents are coming over at separate times because my parents are divorced and, like my mom and I are helping her make her picture boards and my my dad's coming over and I'm helping make him picture boards.

 

39:31.395 --> 39:36.967

<Lori>So like we couldn't even we didn't even come together to do that kind of stuff.

 

39:37.635 --> 39:39.962

<Lori>So there was that drama going on.

 

39:41.515 --> 39:42.500

<Maya>How did you navigate that?

 

39:43.236 --> 39:55.617

<Maya>Because I, as you know from my stories so far, you know and what you've you've heard and and thus far as connecting yeah yeah, my, my parents are, are not that way and I wouldn't expect them to be.

 

39:55.698 --> 39:59.687

<Maya>But we become kind of the intermediary in that situation.

 

39:59.895 --> 40:02.043

<Maya>And so how did you, how did you navigate that?

 

40:02.335 --> 40:46.763

<Maya>Because that is another top five question that I get for this, this show, and also again in our support groups in Starflory is complicated family dynamics Because, as you said earlier and I've talked about as well, is it will either bring you close together, which is a beautiful thing, and I hear once a blue moon or 80, it just pushes you way further apart, because this is so traumatic and you said that or like it creates so much more right in the in the family, and it's interesting to me when you know parents are no longer married and they, they lose a child and the siblings get caught in that, because we assume even more responsibility, because we're trying to make them amicable.

 

40:46.935 --> 40:51.465

<Maya>So I'm curious if that was also, if you don't mind sharing, kind of your experience with that?

 

40:51.525 --> 41:05.268

<Lori>Yeah, I mean, when we were deciding we decided to cremate my brother, he had had several, several surgeries and his body had kind of betrayed him.

 

41:05.475 --> 41:12.597

<Lori>He had really bad back surge, back problems and we don't really we're more cremation people.

 

41:12.917 --> 41:18.622

<Lori>If you're a people, some kind of a person, yeah, but we made it my brother, so I'm with you.

 

41:19.415 --> 41:21.181

<Lori>It just it made more sense for us.

 

41:22.176 --> 41:29.242

<Lori>And when we were sitting in my backyard talking about it, I just remember literally looking at my parents saying I can't do this alone.

 

41:31.356 --> 41:42.387

<Lori>I, I need you to cooperate, I need you to, you know, cooperate with me on these things.

 

41:42.736 --> 41:45.076

<Lori>Like, please don't fight me, Please don't.

 

41:45.877 --> 41:53.368

<Lori>Just, you know I'll do a lot of it, but I need, I need cooperation and I got it.

 

41:53.789 --> 41:54.250

<Lori>I got it.

 

41:54.815 --> 41:57.484

<Lori>I mean there's, there's no love loss.

 

41:57.635 --> 41:58.578

<Lori>Let me just put it to you that way.

 

41:58.819 --> 42:05.287

<Lori>Right, but we, we got through it and we're still getting through it and we're still navigating.

 

42:05.515 --> 42:12.827

<Lori>You know it, my parents have a divorce for 43 years.

 

42:13.488 --> 42:13.729

<Lori>Right.

 

42:14.595 --> 42:19.085

<Lori>You know, so I'm not changing anybody at this point.

 

42:19.747 --> 42:19.827

<Maya>Yeah.

 

42:20.435 --> 42:25.166

<Lori>It was just a matter of let's navigate this, you know, together.

 

42:25.907 --> 42:28.521

<Maya>Right and we're still, we're family.

 

42:28.541 --> 42:32.262

<Lori>We're still, we're family, we're family you guys don't have to love each other.

 

42:32.355 --> 42:39.338

<Lori>You don't have to care about each other but you procreated and you had two children, let's get it together for a little while here, you're going to do it for me.

 

42:41.235 --> 42:43.919

<Lori>You know that's that is powerful.

 

42:43.979 --> 42:45.141

<Lori>Yeah, do it for me.

 

42:45.581 --> 42:48.866

<Lori>Yeah, I'll use those words Did you do it for me.

 

42:49.066 --> 42:50.649

<Lori>Oh yeah, you're going to do it for me.

 

42:50.969 --> 42:51.630

<Lori>That's powerful.

 

42:52.075 --> 42:56.262

<Lori>Because I can't manage this and losing Brian.

 

42:56.924 --> 42:57.124

<Lori>Right.

 

42:57.485 --> 42:57.965

<Lori>I can't do both.

 

42:58.807 --> 42:58.947

<Lori>Right.

 

42:58.987 --> 43:00.896

<Lori>I can't have it in me, you know.

 

43:01.017 --> 43:16.086

<Lori>So, like everything that we did when it came to like picking out urns, which saying those words is just still baffling to me, you know, it still blows my mind, and we no one, no one, argued about.

 

43:16.908 --> 43:20.322

<Lori>You know remains were being divided by three period.

 

43:21.595 --> 43:23.260

<Lori>You know, I mean, it just was.

 

43:23.401 --> 43:31.028

<Lori>It just was what it was, and so at least in that regard, you know, there wasn't any arguing.

 

43:31.515 --> 43:32.760

<Lori>It's just more of an indifference.

 

43:34.558 --> 43:37.165

<Maya>And I think a lot of you guys will relate to that too.

 

43:37.185 --> 43:37.385

<Maya>Yeah.

 

43:38.375 --> 43:45.546

<Maya>It can be an indifference, and I, just I really am inspired by your, your strength in that, lori.

 

43:45.586 --> 43:46.087

<Lori>Thank you.

 

43:47.015 --> 43:48.923

<Maya>Because I am and hope you guys are too.

 

43:49.075 --> 43:55.916

<Maya>I don't know how you couldn't be, because I didn't have that in me at that time to be like.

 

43:56.779 --> 44:16.404

<Maya>I remember and I do share this in in the episodes that I was like I told my mom in a very poignant moment as you guys have heard, and I'm sure you've heard Lori I was like mom, this is either going to rip us apart or pull us closer together, and she made that choice and I still feel very strongly about that to this day.

 

44:16.915 --> 44:31.906

<Maya>And so I'm just really blown away by that aspect of of your story and your story of loss, where you were like, guys, come on, like let's, let's get it together, like you've got to do this for me, because I didn't have those tools in me at that time.

 

44:32.395 --> 44:40.520

<Maya>And I hope this is helpful to you guys, because what a way to to put that out there, because it's not all about them.

 

44:41.035 --> 44:42.761

<Maya>You are important too, yeah.

 

44:44.197 --> 44:44.719

<Lori>And I.

 

44:45.201 --> 44:46.084

<Lori>I couldn't do it alone.

 

44:46.155 --> 44:49.541

<Lori>I needed their help and they you know what they stepped up.

 

44:49.695 --> 44:51.676

<Lori>I'm very proud of my parents, of course.

 

44:51.957 --> 45:02.621

<Lori>You know they were still very much comatose, like a lot of stuff I was still managing, and you know I was because they just couldn't.

 

45:02.781 --> 45:04.620

<Lori>And I understand that I do.

 

45:05.715 --> 45:08.604

<Lori>I don't even know how I feel, but I don't know how they feel.

 

45:09.175 --> 45:09.496

<Maya>Right.

 

45:09.537 --> 45:40.002

<Maya>But I think, just hearing what you're saying, though, because they were so receptive enough, I should say this from what you're telling me to the words that you told them, right, You're from your heart that it wasn't easy, that you had to step up and take care of everything, but it was like, okay, if they're gonna respect me on this level, then I can do this, I can step up, I can create this celebration of life that sports oh, I did named, you know, and so you know, when you have no choice, you do it.

 

45:40.135 --> 45:51.327

<Maya>But sometimes these little wins, I don't wanna say make it easier, but make it more palatable, I guess, would be the best way to say it off the cuff for myself.

 

45:51.555 --> 45:52.520

<Maya>You know thinking about it.

 

45:52.655 --> 45:56.987

<Maya>So I do commend your parents for at least doing that, because-.

 

45:57.035 --> 45:57.477

<Lori>Oh, they did.

 

45:58.240 --> 45:58.782

<Maya>That's huge.

 

45:59.195 --> 46:00.359

<Lori>Yeah, it was, it was.

 

46:00.861 --> 46:01.062

<Lori>Yeah.

 

46:01.675 --> 46:10.659

<Lori>And you know, the thing too, during that time is I was lucky enough, I'm a partner in a business and my business partner stepped up and I took three months off work.

 

46:11.281 --> 46:18.325

<Lori>That's amazing and I don't you know, a lot of people don't have that benefit and I understand that and I'm, you know, forever grateful.

 

46:20.015 --> 46:20.879

<Lori>So I was able.

 

46:20.959 --> 46:21.883

<Lori>I had the time.

 

46:21.955 --> 46:27.384

<Lori>I wasn't trying to balance work and this whole, all of this.

 

46:27.735 --> 46:32.318

<Lori>I wasn't trying to manage this and I was, you know, finding a therapist and I was starting.

 

46:33.422 --> 46:40.023

<Lori>You know, I found I found TCF and I found the sibling grief group, which has saved my life.

 

46:40.135 --> 46:40.918

<Lori>I found Jason.

 

46:41.440 --> 46:41.641

<Lori>Yeah.

 

46:42.275 --> 46:44.502

<Lori>You know, and he's become my coach.

 

46:44.523 --> 46:45.225

<Lori>You love you, Jason.

 

46:45.426 --> 46:49.245

<Lori>Yes, you know, he's become my coach and I always thought.

 

46:49.415 --> 46:52.921

<Lori>I always thought when people said that they had a coach, I was like, oh okay, you're so pretentious.

 

46:53.935 --> 46:55.234

<Lori>I have a coach and I'm not pretentious.

 

46:55.817 --> 46:59.762

<Maya>So you're something very specific that you need someone to help you.

 

46:59.895 --> 47:05.343

<Maya>So I love that you're saying that it's very it's different, it's very personal right.

 

47:06.017 --> 47:10.360

<Maya>It's a personal thing, so yeah, yeah yeah, and having it for me.

 

47:11.463 --> 47:23.940

<Lori>You know, going through this and then having this sort of hand reach out and help me navigate this, I think, is the only reason I'm able to do this today, you know, because it is still so new.

 

47:24.542 --> 47:24.763

<Lori>Yeah.

 

47:25.516 --> 47:33.944

<Maya>And and when we connected I was like we don't normally have somebody on like this and then, when we you know we were connected through Jason.

 

47:34.635 --> 47:45.483

<Maya>I think this is a testament to getting help and to reach out and to doing that, because it doesn't mean that you're not still very early in your grief process.

 

47:45.844 --> 47:46.004

<Maya>Right.

 

47:46.715 --> 47:49.885

<Maya>But again, I love my snowflake thing that I talk about all the time.

 

47:49.935 --> 47:52.302

<Maya>We're all very different right I mean like no, it's a good one.

 

47:53.104 --> 47:53.826

<Maya>It's just like people.

 

47:54.598 --> 47:55.682

<Maya>No, two people are the same.

 

47:56.215 --> 48:02.887

<Maya>The grief is exactly the same way, and I think you know it just is so unique.

 

48:03.015 --> 48:09.084

<Maya>But I do see a commonality in people who really go all in to do the work.

 

48:09.756 --> 48:15.686

<Maya>And go all in, whether that means a therapist, a coach, a group, whatever is going to be your outlet.

 

48:15.975 --> 48:16.979

<Maya>Some people are religious.

 

48:17.039 --> 48:18.002

<Maya>They want to go into right.

 

48:18.022 --> 48:18.143

<Lori>Right.

 

48:18.715 --> 48:24.206

<Maya>And like whatever it is for you and that sometimes takes people 10 years to do.

 

48:24.415 --> 48:29.761

<Maya>Sometimes I've known people that have done it in the first week or month and I'm like that blows my mind.

 

48:29.815 --> 48:31.181

<Maya>I'm like God, you are so advanced.

 

48:31.335 --> 48:47.860

<Maya>I am inspired by you and I think that's a beautiful thing about us as Sibs and sibling loss people is that when we get to this place, where we're starting to move through our journey, there's no comparison, it's inspiration.

 

48:48.095 --> 48:49.838

<Lori>We're like oh, that's beautiful.

 

48:50.400 --> 48:50.701

<Maya>Right.

 

48:51.356 --> 48:53.443

<Maya>I mean comparison is a thief of joy.

 

48:53.735 --> 48:55.542

<Maya>You cannot compare to journey.

 

48:55.796 --> 48:56.961

<Maya>You just cannot do it.

 

48:57.155 --> 48:57.717

<Maya>You know and.

 

48:58.178 --> 49:01.278

<Maya>I am, as we are both event planners, which is wild.

 

49:01.358 --> 49:02.202

<Maya>I did not know that.

 

49:02.335 --> 49:08.803

<Maya>So we actually, like, got on our call, but we're very type A people and so I would beat myself up all the time.

 

49:08.895 --> 49:10.723

<Maya>I'm like, why haven't I told his story yet?

 

49:10.835 --> 49:11.960

<Maya>Why haven't I done this yet?

 

49:12.455 --> 49:19.787

<Maya>And the beauty of your grief journey is everything will fall in line at the exact moment that it needs to.

 

49:19.895 --> 49:22.745

<Maya>Just like you met your grief coach when you needed to.

 

49:22.895 --> 49:26.864

<Maya>Just like you got connected to me and we're sitting here telling Brian's story today.

 

49:27.215 --> 49:40.305

<Maya>And you have to trust that journey, and it doesn't matter if it's six months, six years, 50 years, whatever it is, trust that journey and don't be hard on yourself, like that's easier said than done, cause I beat myself up.

 

49:40.375 --> 49:41.921

<Maya>So guilty is charged.

 

49:42.041 --> 49:44.762

<Lori>Yeah, yes, but it's true.

 

49:45.055 --> 49:53.005

<Lori>You know, everybody's journey is different, I being a student of therapy, my mother is a therapist.

 

49:53.786 --> 49:54.047

<Lori>How?

 

49:54.087 --> 49:54.728

<Lori>Interesting.

 

49:55.456 --> 50:12.301

<Lori>And, having retired therapist, but having both parents firmly believe in therapy, I started looking for a therapist, probably about four months after I couldn't even function for the first three months, you know I just couldn't.

 

50:12.375 --> 50:13.641

<Maya>I mean, I couldn't function for the first year.

 

50:13.795 --> 50:15.160

<Maya>So I'm blown away by you too.

 

50:15.281 --> 50:17.252

<Maya>So you know I spoke with.

 

50:17.273 --> 50:20.044

<Lori>Yeah, I knew that, I knew I needed to get into it right away.

 

50:20.195 --> 50:31.603

<Lori>And I saw a therapist and I fired her after five sessions cause she just wasn't for me and it was because, okay, lori, I want to pause you there, because here's something I tell people all the time.

 

50:32.475 --> 50:43.961

<Maya>They a lot of you guys listening have told me oh, therapy's not for me, this didn't work, this tell us why you, why you fired your therapist, because I think of therapy like dating it's not always going to happen on the first.

 

50:44.615 --> 50:49.344

<Maya>Do you meet your husband or your partner or your wife or your way on the first date?

 

50:49.715 --> 50:53.800

<Maya>I mean, I hope you marry your high school sweetheart, but how many of us do that?

 

50:53.861 --> 50:54.262

<Maya>Not many.

 

50:54.735 --> 51:04.503

<Maya>So right, so no, no, I commend you so much for being so open about that, so tell us why you fired your therapist, if you don't mind.

 

51:04.703 --> 51:05.595

<Lori>Yeah, no, I.

 

51:05.816 --> 51:10.886

<Lori>So I found somebody who allegedly was a specialist in grief.

 

51:11.387 --> 51:11.628

<Lori>Mm-hmm.

 

51:12.516 --> 51:17.484

<Lori>And so I thought okay, and I went to the first meeting and it went okay.

 

51:18.035 --> 51:21.364

<Lori>I, you know, I walked out like eh.

 

51:22.275 --> 51:25.305

<Lori>And then I went to the second one.

 

51:25.355 --> 51:41.904

<Lori>I was going once a week and I went to the second one and she talked a lot and I thought, well, that's kind of unusual for the therapist to talk a lot, meaning she gave me examples of things that happened in her life and I thought I've been in and out of therapy since I was 17.

 

51:42.075 --> 51:44.242

<Lori>This is not normal.

 

51:45.355 --> 51:53.302

<Lori>And instead of just calling it quits and listening to my gut and following my intuition, I went three more times.

 

51:53.915 --> 52:01.545

<Lori>But on the last one I had gone to my grief group, my sibling grief group, and I'd asked for some advice.

 

52:01.715 --> 52:03.983

<Lori>And I said you know, this is what I'm experiencing.

 

52:04.135 --> 52:13.784

<Lori>And one of my, one of my brothers, he said, well, why don't you, you know, try saying you need the following things?

 

52:13.935 --> 52:23.775

<Lori>And we talked through it and I wrote down my notes and I went in like two days later and I started to explain to her what I was looking for in therapy and she just started talking over me.

 

52:23.875 --> 52:25.060

<Lori>I'm like that's it, we're done.

 

52:26.396 --> 52:28.824

<Lori>And I finished that one and I'm like I'm done.

 

52:29.035 --> 52:35.495

<Lori>I wrote her an email that night and said I'm done, I'm going a different path.

 

52:35.595 --> 52:40.744

<Lori>I didn't know what my path was going to be yet, and boy, I never looked back.

 

52:41.375 --> 52:44.705

<Lori>And I, like you, I feel like you have to interview people.

 

52:45.316 --> 52:47.483

<Lori>She was not a specialist in grief.

 

52:47.955 --> 52:50.322

<Lori>She did cognitive behavioral therapy.

 

52:50.683 --> 52:52.919

<Lori>Totally fine, not what I needed.

 

52:53.415 --> 53:01.227

<Maya>It's extremely generic and it works for a lot of people but not for the grief is a whole different ball game as we're talking about it.

 

53:02.037 --> 53:05.687

<Lori>And then having my brother murdered.

 

53:05.815 --> 53:17.001

<Lori>That was a whole different, the anger that I had going on inside of me, Like I needed somebody who could help me with tools and somebody who could like Extract that out of you.

 

53:17.155 --> 53:29.240

<Maya>How do I get the anger out of me so that I'm not doing at least in my case, and I'm sure there's not any something that I've talked to you that has lost someone to homicide or something really horrific like that?

 

53:29.375 --> 53:30.621

<Maya>And again, I don't believe in comparison.

 

53:30.715 --> 53:36.245

<Maya>It's all horrific, but there's an anger that arises in us very early right.

 

53:36.656 --> 53:38.343

<Maya>Because, that's our go-to emotion.

 

53:38.515 --> 53:43.181

<Maya>So having a therapist that can tap into that very quickly and say, okay, how are we extracting this?

 

53:43.495 --> 53:43.877

<Maya>How are we?

 

53:44.138 --> 53:45.523

<Maya>Are you an exercise person?

 

53:46.538 --> 53:48.184

<Maya>Are you a meditation person?

 

53:48.275 --> 53:48.576

<Maya>Are you a?

 

53:48.797 --> 54:03.663

<Maya>You know and I'm just pulling stuff out but like finding out who you are for your outlet, because that's a lot of energy living inside of your body that has to come out, and if that person does not know how to give you those tools, it's not a fit not a fit.

 

54:04.095 --> 54:05.038

<Maya>So I commend you for that.

 

54:05.179 --> 54:05.600

<Lori>Yeah, yeah.

 

54:06.182 --> 54:10.715

<Maya>Yeah, I'm curious did she ever respond to you when you wrote something to her.

 

54:10.715 --> 54:11.317

<Maya>All she said.

 

54:11.458 --> 54:12.702

<Lori>All she said was good luck.

 

54:13.615 --> 54:14.037

<Maya>Interesting.

 

54:14.835 --> 54:19.140

<Lori>Because I said please send me an invoice for what I owe you, because thankfully my insurance was covering it.

 

54:19.261 --> 54:21.046

<Maya>but Thank God, I just you know what.

 

54:21.917 --> 54:24.900

<Lori>And I didn't even bother explaining why I don't owe her an explanation.

 

54:24.980 --> 54:25.522

<Maya>It just worked.

 

54:25.937 --> 54:34.495

<Lori>You don't work, I'm out, but we seem to feel like we owe people things, and I'm like, nope, I don't owe you anything, but I really encourage people.

 

54:34.796 --> 54:42.742

<Maya>I love that you said that too, though, lori because we do feel like we owe people explanations, especially when we're in such a vulnerable state.

 

54:42.762 --> 54:42.923

<Maya>Right.

 

54:43.715 --> 54:45.284

<Maya>We're like, oh, is it just me though?

 

54:45.355 --> 54:46.621

<Maya>Should I keep seeing this person?

 

54:46.695 --> 54:55.502

<Maya>Because they're certified or they have a degree If it doesn't feel right leave it Exactly and you know I'm gonna share.

 

54:55.655 --> 54:58.238

<Lori>I know that I won't get in trouble for my mother for sharing this.

 

54:59.377 --> 55:02.826

<Lori>She found a therapist and the woman never said my brother's name.

 

55:04.175 --> 55:08.300

<Lori>The therapist never asked for my brother's name and my mom's like I'm done.

 

55:08.815 --> 55:11.264

<Lori>She went to one informational thing.

 

55:11.315 --> 55:20.384

<Lori>She's like nope, if you don't ask me my child's name, you know you gotta follow your instincts and if it doesn't feel good, get out.

 

55:21.875 --> 55:22.176

<Lori>You would.

 

55:22.337 --> 55:26.876

<Lori>I mean, you would get out of a bad job, you would get out of a bad relationship, you would.

 

55:28.900 --> 55:32.007

<Lori>Every therapist isn't an expert, right?

 

55:32.275 --> 55:33.960

<Lori>They just have a little more education, right?

 

55:34.001 --> 55:35.285

<Lori>So yeah, I just-.

 

55:35.375 --> 55:40.602

<Maya>Well sometimes they get into it and it's for their own personal reasons and that's why they talk about themselves.

 

55:40.695 --> 55:44.045

<Maya>But Lori that sounds like a whole other episode we could do on that.

 

55:44.337 --> 55:44.700

<Maya>It is.

 

55:45.475 --> 55:49.143

<Maya>Oh my God, I just I really wanted you to hone in on that.

 

55:49.215 --> 55:53.181

<Maya>So thank you for being so vulnerable with that, because I can't again.

 

55:53.201 --> 55:54.826

<Maya>That's in one of my top fives.

 

55:54.935 --> 56:00.079

<Maya>Like now that I hear from people, they're like well, I went, it just wasn't for me and I'm not gonna do it anymore and I'm like don't give up.

 

56:00.495 --> 56:01.840

<Maya>Did you give up finding your partner?

 

56:01.880 --> 56:02.844

<Maya>Did you give up dating?

 

56:02.935 --> 56:04.361

<Maya>Did you give up finding friends?

 

56:04.475 --> 56:06.040

<Maya>Like, please, I know it can be.

 

56:06.220 --> 56:06.441

<Maya>So.

 

56:07.323 --> 56:13.649

<Maya>We both know it can be so difficult and it can be so disheartening.

 

56:15.981 --> 56:17.505

<Lori>You can feel discredited and not validated.

 

56:18.095 --> 56:26.081

<Maya>But when you do find the right people to support you, you're like, oh, it was worth it, this was worth it, and so you can't give up.

 

56:26.595 --> 56:30.283

<Lori>No, I encourage people like you've got to test drive these things or this.

 

56:32.020 --> 56:32.903

<Maya>Amen, sister.

 

56:33.095 --> 56:35.984

<Maya>Yes, completely, completely.

 

56:36.875 --> 56:44.204

<Maya>Well, I have asked you so many additional questions, so we're gonna go a little bit over, because I want to know if you're cool with that.

 

56:44.495 --> 56:50.143

<Maya>I want to know more about, of course, brian, because I know there's so much more to this journey.

 

56:50.435 --> 56:54.526

<Maya>Can you tell us, obviously there was so much that happened.

 

56:54.695 --> 56:59.000

<Maya>You guys were going to court and then you kind of took a pause on going because it was back and forth.

 

56:59.436 --> 57:03.601

<Maya>And yes, 15 months is fast and some people listening to this.

 

57:03.715 --> 57:07.122

<Maya>If you guys have been through this situation, it can be years and years and years.

 

57:08.315 --> 57:20.360

<Maya>But I think what's so valuable about you sharing so vulnerably and the case being closed Lori is that you're able to tell us a lot about the process.

 

57:20.715 --> 57:44.985

<Maya>So, can you kind of share with us, like leading up to the actual prosecution, like kind of paint a picture for us around that, because I think people are quite curious what that looks like, because there's so much in homicide, there's an additional anticipatory grief that happens right, because you're like am I going to get justice?

 

57:45.698 --> 57:46.481

<Maya>Is this going to happen?

 

57:47.016 --> 57:50.279

<Maya>And you said it beautifully earlier I don't believe in it.

 

57:50.715 --> 57:52.021

<Maya>Justice does not exist.

 

57:52.535 --> 58:00.883

<Maya>It's more about fight the good fight, fight what you can and work on your own grief, because you're not really going to get that justice.

 

58:01.035 --> 58:05.321

<Maya>But should these people be behind bars or whatever is appropriate?

 

58:05.843 --> 58:06.525

<Maya>Absolutely.

 

58:07.718 --> 58:24.086

<Maya>But I think it's about debunking this myth that when you go to court and when you see the final sentencing I really would love to hear this from you, because I had to come to that resolution without going through that process, but I know that there's it's not a thing.

 

58:24.296 --> 58:28.024

<Maya>Every single person I've talked to that has gone through this is like no, there's no justice.

 

58:28.276 --> 58:35.103

<Maya>You walk away and you still have this, but it doesn't mean that it isn't helpful to at least have this person serve time.

 

58:35.155 --> 58:38.560

<Lori>So I really want to hear that from you or I'm gonna hand that over to you.

 

58:38.721 --> 58:46.567

<Lori>Yeah, yeah, and again, I'm just going to talk about it from our experience, meaning my family's experience, please.

 

58:46.787 --> 59:02.629

<Lori>Yeah, we came to the realization, probably about just short of a year, that it would be in our best interest to offer a plea and to take the plea.

 

59:02.875 --> 59:21.464

<Lori>We never went to trial, and the reason we chose not to go to trial and the thing is, I shouldn't say chose because it's really not up to us, it was up to the county and the district attorney's office, and then it's them sort of hand feeding you why a plea is better, right.

 

59:22.096 --> 59:30.735

<Lori>And for us, we agreed with them because it only takes one person and that monster is free.

 

59:31.799 --> 59:46.675

<Lori>One person thinks that he's not guilty and it's done and there's no double jeopardy, right, you can't be tried again for the same crime, and that's a pretty big risk, that's a really big risk.

 

59:47.941 --> 59:59.940

<Lori>And the other thing was in our county and I assume it's gonna be like this everywhere is if they take a plea, they can't appeal it Because they're admitting guilt.

 

01:00:00.856 --> 01:00:03.132

<Lori>It's my understanding that that is pretty standard.

 

01:00:03.880 --> 01:00:08.420

<Maya>Yeah, yeah, I'm only speaking from California, so he can't appeal.

 

01:00:10.376 --> 01:00:22.035

<Lori>The only time they'd be able to appeal is if a law changes and then it's retroactive to everybody, which is silliness.

 

01:00:23.963 --> 01:00:26.837

<Lori>But the process is very emotionally exhausted for me.

 

01:00:26.897 --> 01:00:40.975

<Lori>I didn't feel like I could properly start grieving until the sentencing day, because it was like having this wound scab over and every time there was a court date it got picked open.

 

01:00:41.422 --> 01:00:46.776

<Lori>It got picked open and I just couldn't Like.

 

01:00:46.796 --> 01:01:00.994

<Lori>I was healing, sort of, and I was grieving and I was working on myself and I was doing the hard work with Jason and the grief coaching, but it wasn't really.

 

01:01:03.218 --> 01:01:05.164

<Lori>It's not closure, because I don't believe in that either.

 

01:01:07.459 --> 01:01:14.741

<Lori>I wanted the punishment and I think that once I thought to myself once that day comes, I'll be good and I'll be able to agree.

 

01:01:15.055 --> 01:01:21.573

<Lori>Boy, that was wrong too, you know, because all punishment does, all that sentencing day did was okay.

 

01:01:21.654 --> 01:01:25.862

<Lori>Now he's behind bars, he got 12 years voluntary manslaughter.

 

01:01:26.495 --> 01:01:31.827

<Lori>He has to serve 85% because he's a two-time felon and in California that's the law.

 

01:01:35.221 --> 01:01:48.429

<Lori>I thought, okay, that day we're going to do our victims impact statements, which is just guts you, because you're living it all over again and this idiot is 10 feet away from you.

 

01:01:49.496 --> 01:01:56.824

<Maya>That's something, lori, that I really did want you to bring up, because that's something that I never got the opportunity to do but.

 

01:01:56.924 --> 01:02:07.577

<Maya>I have mixed emotions about it and I have heard from many sources which is very creepy that he knows and he's heard and he listens to the podcast.

 

01:02:07.597 --> 01:02:17.337

<Maya>So, yeah, I know who you are creep, Anyway but that's something that people ask me about all the time and I will never sit here and go.

 

01:02:17.597 --> 01:02:22.488

<Maya>I'm a therapist, I'm this, I'm that, I went through this or I know.

 

01:02:22.548 --> 01:02:40.797

<Maya>I'm just someone that had a really horrific experience that was extremely public and I'm continuing to share your stories, and so I am really keen for you to share this with our audience, because I get this question a lot from people who have lost a sister or brother or more than one sibling.

 

01:02:40.817 --> 01:02:42.723

<Maya>God forbid, it's a homicide.

 

01:02:43.855 --> 01:02:44.980

<Maya>Should I do the statement?

 

01:02:45.695 --> 01:02:46.299

<Maya>Should I do it?

 

01:02:46.735 --> 01:02:47.880

<Maya>How do I manage it?

 

01:02:48.315 --> 01:02:54.001

<Maya>Would you mind, as you're continuing to share kind of some advice on that, because I think this is so powerful, yeah.

 

01:02:54.895 --> 01:02:57.421

<Lori>I'm going to do it from my perspective.

 

01:02:57.501 --> 01:03:00.768

<Lori>For me, I needed to say something to that person.

 

01:03:02.539 --> 01:03:11.945

<Lori>I needed the court to know, but it also is part of the public record for if and when he is up for parole and it needs like.

 

01:03:12.267 --> 01:03:19.362

<Lori>I needed to make sure, I needed to be my brother's voice and I needed the court to hear.

 

01:03:19.923 --> 01:03:27.485

<Lori>And we had 13 statements, because you can submit friends, you can submit family, and so we did.

 

01:03:27.595 --> 01:03:30.995

<Lori>It wasn't just my parents and me, it was.

 

01:03:31.276 --> 01:03:37.948

<Lori>We had 13 statements, so 10 other people besides my parents and me submitted statements.

 

01:03:38.896 --> 01:03:49.445

<Lori>I would say I started writing my statement in October of last year and I didn't get to deliver it until August of this year.

 

01:03:50.195 --> 01:03:52.832

<Maya>It was 2023 because of the time 2023,.

 

01:03:52.852 --> 01:03:53.175

<Maya>Thank you.

 

01:03:53.576 --> 01:03:58.627

<Lori>I started writing in October of 2022 and I delivered it in August of 2023.

 

01:03:59.155 --> 01:04:01.283

<Lori>It naturally had many iterations.

 

01:04:01.735 --> 01:04:11.603

<Lori>I would keep a notepad next to me on the sofa and, as I was raging, I would start scribbling the writing and I would say, like FU, and is it okay if I say that one?

 

01:04:11.964 --> 01:04:17.245

<Lori>Yeah, okay, I would say FU, you blah, blah, blah and I would get it out.

 

01:04:18.940 --> 01:04:19.823

<Maya>God, that's so healthy.

 

01:04:20.155 --> 01:04:20.637

<Maya>What a good idea.

 

01:04:21.715 --> 01:04:23.986

<Lori>I just kept it next to me and then I put it away.

 

01:04:24.368 --> 01:04:36.405

<Lori>Once I started getting frustrated by how long it was taking and then, when it was time to actually write it, I started fresh, because I was in a different place than I was in October of 2022.

 

01:04:39.636 --> 01:04:41.603

<Lori>I didn't finalize it till the night before.

 

01:04:44.101 --> 01:04:44.502

<Lori>What do you?

 

01:04:44.542 --> 01:04:45.645

<Maya>mean by finalize it?

 

01:04:46.375 --> 01:04:50.284

<Maya>You kind of took all of your drafts and wrote it fresh?

 

01:04:50.344 --> 01:04:52.107

<Maya>Or tell us what you mean by finalizing it.

 

01:04:52.936 --> 01:04:54.100

<Lori>I actually started new.

 

01:04:56.378 --> 01:04:59.969

<Lori>I did reference my notes just so I wouldn't forget something.

 

01:05:00.611 --> 01:05:05.723

<Lori>But I started over and it was gosh, it was how many pages.

 

01:05:08.035 --> 01:05:11.504

<Lori>It was 10 pages, one and a half spaced.

 

01:05:13.235 --> 01:05:28.748

<Lori>I decided to be a little more visual and I took a glass vase and I brought marbles and I made different points, like the fact that the murderer was 45 pounds heavier than my brother.

 

01:05:29.315 --> 01:05:39.614

<Lori>I dropped 45 marbles and it made clink, clink, clink, clink, clink During my statement the fact that he was six inches taller than my brother.

 

01:05:39.654 --> 01:05:54.003

<Lori>I dropped six marbles I was doing this, and then I dropped a whole bunch of sand in it and said you can't count sand, you can't count tears, they just envelops your life.

 

01:05:54.695 --> 01:06:01.026

<Lori>Then I had a much smaller vase and I said here are the 12 marbles for his punishment.

 

01:06:03.395 --> 01:06:04.338

<Lori>It's so unjust.

 

01:06:07.416 --> 01:06:12.207

<Lori>Yes, we opted for the plea because we wanted some punishment.

 

01:06:13.195 --> 01:06:17.123

<Lori>Like I said to me, it's not justice, it's punishment.

 

01:06:17.924 --> 01:06:26.180

<Lori>And he needed to be punished because nothing will bring my brother back, nobody can do anything.

 

01:06:26.855 --> 01:06:28.763

<Lori>I thought I would feel better at the end of that.

 

01:06:28.895 --> 01:06:40.240

<Lori>I thought that on the 18th of August I would be light as a feather and instead I stayed in bed for three solid.

 

01:06:40.395 --> 01:06:47.188

<Lori>I took the Thursday, the Friday, I took the Monday off and I was basically in bed sleeping or crying.

 

01:06:47.615 --> 01:06:48.317

<Lori>It was just.

 

01:06:49.279 --> 01:06:57.605

<Lori>I'm still processing that because one of the things that Jason and I were working on is I need to get this guy out of my head.

 

01:06:57.835 --> 01:07:06.521

<Lori>He's been living in my head rent-free for all these months and I thought, oh, on the 18th he's going to move out.

 

01:07:07.757 --> 01:07:16.744

<Lori>Well, he's like 75, 80% moved out now he still hasn't transferred to state prison.

 

01:07:18.115 --> 01:07:23.487

<Lori>There's a part of me that is like, okay, once he's been transferred to state prison, then he's moved out.

 

01:07:24.276 --> 01:07:24.618

<Lori>We'll see.

 

01:07:25.902 --> 01:07:27.336

<Lori>It's that trauma it's.

 

01:07:28.238 --> 01:07:40.899

<Lori>But anyways, about the impact statement, if somebody is deciding like should I or shouldn't I, I would encourage do it, because you don't want to regret it.

 

01:07:41.380 --> 01:07:44.098

<Lori>Having not done it, at least in California.

 

01:07:44.118 --> 01:07:45.202

<Lori>You don't have to read it.

 

01:07:45.835 --> 01:07:56.240

<Lori>You can have an advocate read it, or you can just submit it, but have your voice heard is what I would say, because you can't turn it in later.

 

01:07:57.695 --> 01:07:58.798

<Lori>I couldn't turn it in now.

 

01:07:58.918 --> 01:08:00.964

<Maya>You can't go back, right, you can't go back with that.

 

01:08:01.995 --> 01:08:06.004

<Maya>So, even if it's, you know I have a lot of people it's also with you, or G's and stuff too.

 

01:08:06.024 --> 01:08:13.586

<Maya>They're like I regret not doing this and like the reality is if you can't say it, that's okay, but make sure your voice is heard.

 

01:08:13.767 --> 01:08:14.568

<Maya>That's what I would say.

 

01:08:15.658 --> 01:08:16.502

<Maya>I love this.

 

01:08:16.856 --> 01:08:20.306

<Maya>I didn't even realize we were this in line with this, because and I love it.

 

01:08:20.596 --> 01:08:32.861

<Maya>I just I love that because I agree with you 150%, because some of us again, you know, I mean naturally as humans we go to, you know, are we extroverted, Are we, you know, more, you know introverted.

 

01:08:33.322 --> 01:08:36.449

<Maya>And grief changes you, death changes you.

 

01:08:36.655 --> 01:08:53.768

<Maya>So sometimes, like I became, I was, I'll always be an extrovert, but I shut down in a lot of ways now that I didn't use to do and I don't know that that necessarily defines me as an introvert in like a definitive way.

 

01:08:54.598 --> 01:09:02.301

<Maya>But like I just see, like myself, and I look back and I'm like I definitely wanted to do that, I definitely want, and I would have gotten up and spoken.

 

01:09:02.582 --> 01:09:04.556

<Maya>but if for some reason I couldn't have.

 

01:09:04.856 --> 01:09:16.306

<Maya>There's no way in hell I wouldn't have had someone at least say my words for me, and so I think your advice is just completely invaluable.

 

01:09:16.415 --> 01:09:22.139

<Maya>I think it's it's so true because you will look back and regret those things and can't go back and change.

 

01:09:22.219 --> 01:09:31.821

<Maya>That's your moment, and even if it is your mouth saying this, you're 100% saying that you have it in your, in your soul, in your hand.

 

01:09:31.881 --> 01:09:46.244

<Maya>You can write it, you can type it, and so I think God thank you for sharing that, because so many people ask that and I just I think I would definitely encourage and, like I said, at least in my state and I I would imagine this is pretty universal, is that?

 

01:09:46.685 --> 01:09:52.499

<Lori>right, you can have it get read it or somebody else read it for you, or you can just have it turned in for the record.

 

01:09:53.435 --> 01:10:00.604

<Lori>Even if you can't say it out loud in court, because a lot of people one have a hard time speaking in front of other people, I get it, then you're in grief.

 

01:10:01.236 --> 01:10:06.284

<Maya>People are afraid of public speaking, and they are dying Isn't that crazy, but it's true.

 

01:10:06.424 --> 01:10:06.705

<Lori>Yes.

 

01:10:06.845 --> 01:10:08.768

<Maya>It's true and I can empathize with that.

 

01:10:08.868 --> 01:10:10.717

<Maya>Yeah, but you're.

 

01:10:10.998 --> 01:10:14.196

<Lori>you know another point that you just now brought up about being a different person.

 

01:10:14.236 --> 01:10:23.645

<Lori>Like I have always been an extrovert, and now I would rather stay home with my dog and I just I kind of can't be out in the wild with people anymore.

 

01:10:23.895 --> 01:10:25.741

<Lori>I'm still battling with my rage.

 

01:10:26.222 --> 01:10:26.383

<Lori>Yeah.

 

01:10:27.335 --> 01:10:31.091

<Lori>I'm still battling with it, but I'm trying to turn this into well.

 

01:10:31.131 --> 01:10:33.138

<Lori>I have turned some of it into something good.

 

01:10:35.335 --> 01:10:35.817

<Lori>I took a.

 

01:10:36.017 --> 01:10:41.082

<Lori>I took a course on how to be a certified victims advocate, so that's what I'm just about to ask you about.

 

01:10:41.255 --> 01:10:42.561

<Maya>So perfect transition.

 

01:10:42.795 --> 01:10:47.601

<Maya>So that's your outlet in giving back, because can you tell?

 

01:10:47.727 --> 01:10:48.526

<Maya>Us a little bit.

 

01:10:48.651 --> 01:10:50.495

<Maya>This is a question I get a lot.

 

01:10:51.615 --> 01:10:58.542

<Maya>It's not on my top, you know, three to five, but it's definitely in my top three to five for people who have gone through homicide loss.

 

01:10:58.583 --> 01:11:00.661

<Maya>Right, what is a victims advocate?

 

01:11:00.835 --> 01:11:01.257

<Maya>Can you share?

 

01:11:01.277 --> 01:11:04.901

<Maya>That a little bit, since you've just gone through this, because I think that's amazing yeah.

 

01:11:05.675 --> 01:11:12.169

<Lori>So in the court system, most district attorney's offices have an advocate for the family.

 

01:11:12.235 --> 01:11:15.184

<Lori>It helps you navigate the process, explain what's going to happen next.

 

01:11:15.775 --> 01:11:20.666

<Lori>And these are, these are I mean, these people are saints.

 

01:11:21.595 --> 01:11:31.404

<Lori>They don't get paid well, they work crazy hours, they have multiple cases, multiple families and what they do is they just help you navigate the legal system.

 

01:11:31.544 --> 01:11:33.874

<Lori>What's next, what can you expect?

 

01:11:33.955 --> 01:11:35.020

<Lori>And they do the best they can.

 

01:11:35.515 --> 01:11:49.868

<Lori>I still think that in all, all in all, we weren't given the total honest and I think they try to be aware of people's feelings and they don't want to be harsh.

 

01:11:50.515 --> 01:11:54.886

<Lori>I kind of wish that they would just be harsh, if that's what it means to be more honest.

 

01:11:55.255 --> 01:12:28.408

<Lori>I don't think they were intentionally deceptive, Like what I decided to do was take a class and I am going to maybe start volunteering at a to be an advocate for foster children, to be their certified court appointed Gosh it's Casa court appointed special advocate and you get assigned a minor and you help them navigate process.

 

01:12:28.515 --> 01:12:34.277

<Lori>So I actually have a training tomorrow between 10 and 11 am to see if that's going to be a fit for me.

 

01:12:34.518 --> 01:12:36.724

<Lori>But I need to give back.

 

01:12:37.395 --> 01:12:38.962

<Lori>I need to give back in honor of my brother.

 

01:12:39.095 --> 01:12:46.383

<Lori>My brother was an extremely giving human and I need to, I need to continue his work.

 

01:12:47.165 --> 01:12:48.979

<Maya>Yeah, I love that.

 

01:12:49.400 --> 01:12:49.862

<Maya>I love that.

 

01:12:50.355 --> 01:12:56.520

<Maya>That's why I wanted to make sure we brought that up too, because I think that's amazing that you're on that journey, and that's really what this show is about.

 

01:12:57.095 --> 01:13:07.246

<Maya>It's about sharing just your vulnerable, complete, honest story about you, your sibling, the loss but also, how are you giving yourself hope?

 

01:13:07.475 --> 01:13:19.260

<Maya>How are you giving, how are you continuing to, to give that light of your brother, your sister or again, god forbid, I've had people on the show who have one sibling how are you continuing their legacy?

 

01:13:19.541 --> 01:13:22.076

<Maya>And you're doing it already, like it's really.

 

01:13:22.277 --> 01:13:38.493

<Maya>Your story is very cool because you're in like the middle of of this process, right Of bringing, like carrying the torch, and I think that's really amazing and I can actually do too, because I just kind of I'm extremely extroverted.

 

01:13:38.653 --> 01:13:47.745

<Maya>But doing this, this kind of work, and also us doing our event work, you have to be extroverted all the time, and so I flip and enjoy sitting home with.

 

01:13:47.906 --> 01:13:59.905

<Maya>I have two little girls that have been with me for a long time now and we just love to sit outside, hang out, I enjoy a glass of wine with them, or we Netflix and chill together.

 

01:14:00.395 --> 01:14:14.210

<Maya>I mean, they are my, my babies, and it's very cathartic for me and and I never really understood that level of needing to recharge and I feel really connected with my brother.

 

01:14:14.675 --> 01:14:17.342

<Maya>I'm drainage during those times and I'm sure you feel connected with him during those times.

 

01:14:17.382 --> 01:14:18.645

<Lori>I do, yeah, I do.

 

01:14:21.041 --> 01:14:21.808

<Maya>It's, it's, it's.

 

01:14:23.278 --> 01:14:28.137

<Lori>Yeah, I've just realized that I'm probably better off sometimes being at home, because I can be a little bit.

 

01:14:29.259 --> 01:14:46.366

<Maya>I'm still like I said, I'm still still working through a lot of rage, Right, and I can actually, because I did too, and so, like I really commend you for being aware of that, because it took me well over years almost year two, where I started to be like holy crap, I'm really angry.

 

01:14:46.755 --> 01:14:49.301

<Maya>Like I'm really angry, I need to not be around.

 

01:14:50.035 --> 01:14:52.424

<Maya>And it wasn't that I didn't have the right to feel that way.

 

01:14:52.555 --> 01:14:54.843

<Maya>It was about being self aware about it.

 

01:14:55.255 --> 01:14:58.485

<Maya>So again I'm, I'm inspired, and I hope you guys are as well.

 

01:14:58.855 --> 01:15:09.427

<Maya>I can't imagine that you're not but you're so self aware about that, because I think a lot of people don't realize because it's it's a lot of trauma that a lot of trauma.

 

01:15:09.948 --> 01:15:16.778

<Maya>Yeah, so you know, I want to go back just for a second and then we'll, we'll kind of wrap up and talk about what?

 

01:15:16.898 --> 01:15:19.405

<Maya>I'm actually God, you and I could talk for, for a long time we could.

 

01:15:20.897 --> 01:15:23.545

<Maya>Little did I know we had this this much in common.

 

01:15:23.655 --> 01:15:33.620

<Maya>Oh my gosh, but, lori, when you were telling us you know about, you know the sentencing and you know everything that's happened and you were talking about.

 

01:15:33.961 --> 01:15:38.460

<Maya>You know obviously this horrific, I'm just going to say it horrific.

 

01:15:38.501 --> 01:15:38.601

<Maya>Yeah.

 

01:15:39.275 --> 01:15:40.737

<Maya>It's going to have to be judgmental in these situations.

 

01:15:40.838 --> 01:15:43.422

<Maya>Horrific gentlemen, gentlemen, gentlemen.

 

01:15:43.462 --> 01:15:44.965

<Lori>Air quotes, gentlemen.

 

01:15:45.565 --> 01:16:01.367

<Maya>Yeah, if you guys are watching the video, you'll see that, gentlemen, I mean that that will stay with me forever in my stories though you know, with me when they your story right, but I'm sure you went through the same thing too, like in court, when they humanize them or they call them Mr So-and-so and all that.

 

01:16:01.395 --> 01:16:07.807

<Maya>I'm like just call them Mr A-hole or whatever, cause I mean like they don't even deserve a name, but anyway, that's a whole.

 

01:16:07.847 --> 01:16:39.305

<Maya>Yeah, I mean, we all know this already, but you know, I think it's really interesting how you said you know, when he gets transferred here, I'll feel this, or when he and I feel like you're at a point where and this is this is a really important part of your story where you're like, you feel like, cause, I felt like this too I'm like, well, when this happens and when this happens and I never got the opportunity to go to court and do those things, and it was completely you know and my story is not uncommon.

 

01:16:39.365 --> 01:16:40.147

<Maya>It happens all the time.

 

01:16:40.696 --> 01:16:41.819

<Lori>Yours is more common.

 

01:16:42.159 --> 01:16:43.062

<Maya>Mine is more common.

 

01:16:43.383 --> 01:16:44.906

<Lori>It actually is, yours is more common.

 

01:16:45.415 --> 01:16:46.518

<Maya>Fun fact, ladies and gentlemen.

 

01:16:46.559 --> 01:16:54.686

<Maya>Yes, it's more common, Even though I fought my little butt off and it was just, you know, difficult.

 

01:16:54.786 --> 01:17:02.939

<Maya>But I think the point of us and communicating with all of you about this is it really doesn't matter the outcome.

 

01:17:04.435 --> 01:17:09.987

<Maya>The only win in your story is, at least for hopefully, a decade or less.

 

01:17:10.715 --> 01:17:14.386

<Maya>He's not able to do those things to anyone else, but that's really it.

 

01:17:14.697 --> 01:17:15.369

<Maya>There's no justice.

 

01:17:15.756 --> 01:17:19.840

<Maya>There's no bringing back Brian, there's no bringing back Andreas, and that's you know.

 

01:17:19.860 --> 01:17:20.785

<Maya>People ask me all the time.

 

01:17:20.805 --> 01:17:25.466

<Maya>They're like how are you able to live with the fact that this guy is walking around?

 

01:17:25.566 --> 01:17:31.764

<Maya>and shot your brother in cold blood and I'm like, because the reality is he would be out again.

 

01:17:32.185 --> 01:17:37.819

<Maya>You know he would be out again and you know I've had to work through that on my own and that's my own journey.

 

01:17:39.075 --> 01:17:48.445

<Maya>And what I think was what I was getting to it with your story is we have these milestones where it was when they go here, when they get to this place or when this happens.

 

01:17:49.055 --> 01:18:00.166

<Maya>And I think what's really just a standout with you is I think you've gotten to the point where you're like no, it's not that, it's about what I do with this now.

 

01:18:00.735 --> 01:18:05.937

<Maya>And instead of instead of holding onto these milestones because I did too and I was like.

 

01:18:06.679 --> 01:18:08.365

<Maya>I got to get all this paperwork.

 

01:18:08.435 --> 01:18:09.819

<Maya>I got to get the private investigator.

 

01:18:09.880 --> 01:18:10.642

<Maya>I got to do this.

 

01:18:10.682 --> 01:18:11.645

<Maya>I got to get them to court.

 

01:18:11.695 --> 01:18:13.015

<Maya>I got to get them to serve justice.

 

01:18:13.075 --> 01:18:14.120

<Maya>I got to chase this lead.

 

01:18:14.555 --> 01:18:16.339

<Maya>It was just and I'm not.

 

01:18:16.861 --> 01:18:19.587

<Maya>I would never, I wouldn't change a thing about what I did.

 

01:18:19.727 --> 01:18:21.400

<Lori>I wouldn't, and I'm sure you wouldn't either.

 

01:18:21.595 --> 01:18:22.359

<Lori>No, no, no, no no.

 

01:18:23.195 --> 01:18:31.983

<Maya>But it's about starting to sit with it and go okay, this part of the chapter is over, in a sense, because there's never coming back.

 

01:18:32.115 --> 01:18:34.764

<Maya>So how do I honor Brian?

 

01:18:35.135 --> 01:18:35.437

<Maya>How do?

 

01:18:35.517 --> 01:18:37.217

<Maya>I honor Andreas and how do?

 

01:18:37.438 --> 01:18:40.620

<Maya>I live for them, because that's what really matters.

 

01:18:41.335 --> 01:18:47.247

<Lori>Well, I would say that you're doing it with this podcast and shedding light on stories.

 

01:18:47.935 --> 01:18:58.264

<Lori>That's what I would say to that, and I would say that I am endeavoring with this advocacy work and it'll probably be volunteer work for a while.

 

01:18:58.705 --> 01:18:58.966

<Lori>Sure.

 

01:18:59.415 --> 01:19:22.267

<Lori>You know I have no idea what's next, but I know that I'm making, I'm taking steps in the right direction and I think what I told you when we were just chatting before this is that the weirdest thing that's happened to me is that the worst day in my life has created this chain of gratitude.

 

01:19:23.695 --> 01:19:37.607

<Lori>You know, finding TCF, finding Sibs Group, finding Jason, now my advocacy, being able to talk to you on this podcast and spreading the stories that you're doing.

 

01:19:38.835 --> 01:19:52.646

<Lori>It's a very strange positive that is coming from this and I think I want to believe that our brothers are proud of us.

 

01:19:54.540 --> 01:19:56.038

<Maya>Yeah, they are, I know it.

 

01:19:56.078 --> 01:19:57.302

<Maya>150%.

 

01:19:58.115 --> 01:20:05.267

<Maya>And it's so interesting because you're not the only incredible guest this season.

 

01:20:06.088 --> 01:20:18.316

<Maya>As you'll hear as the season continues to evolve and as it comes out, you're not the only one that says that this season it's a big theme this season, that everybody is talking yeah, it's very interesting and there's.

 

01:20:18.777 --> 01:20:19.981

<Maya>I don't believe in coincidence.

 

01:20:20.142 --> 01:20:20.624

<Lori>I don't either.

 

01:20:21.035 --> 01:20:26.618

<Maya>Even if it's a really crappy thing that you've been through, like us, or if it's something really incredible.

 

01:20:26.699 --> 01:20:41.919

<Maya>There's no such thing as coincidence and I will tell you, I would say 75% of the people that have been on this season have said something like you just said in their own interpretation, in their own way that well, we would, you know.

 

01:20:42.100 --> 01:20:51.027

<Maya>I mean, if whoever whatever you believe in, universe, god, whatever you, whatever you practice came before you and said, would you like your siblings to come back?

 

01:20:51.635 --> 01:20:53.781

<Maya>Of course you'd be like, heck, yeah, bring them back right now.

 

01:20:54.263 --> 01:20:54.664

<Maya>Right?

 

01:20:55.575 --> 01:20:56.464

<Maya>That's not how life works.

 

01:20:57.695 --> 01:21:03.391

<Maya>And so the reality is, when you open, it's like I use this.

 

01:21:03.672 --> 01:21:05.558

<Maya>I use a lot of metaphors, lori.

 

01:21:05.578 --> 01:21:13.547

<Maya>You'll learn this about me if you haven't already listened to me, but you know it's like we want a certain thing to blossom or bloom or happen.

 

01:21:14.656 --> 01:21:28.025

<Maya>But you know, maybe you were expecting a rose or a sunflower or this or that, but actually, when something really traumatic happens, we might actually look to the other side and this whole garden of other things happens.

 

01:21:28.065 --> 01:21:28.305

<Lori>Yes.

 

01:21:29.138 --> 01:21:33.465

<Maya>And we're like holy crap, I never would have probably known you without this right.

 

01:21:33.515 --> 01:21:44.001

<Maya>I just had this conversation with someone else and you'll hear it on the season and I've met so many incredible people and my relationships are so much deeper, I think, than they've ever been in my entire life.

 

01:21:44.202 --> 01:21:46.694

<Maya>Yes, and that continues to evolve.

 

01:21:46.755 --> 01:21:56.919

<Maya>And I would never think the man that took my brother's life for that, but I think my brother for that, because I know that's my brother sending me them and I know that's Brian sending that to you.

 

01:21:56.959 --> 01:21:57.982

<Lori>Yes, agree.

 

01:21:58.323 --> 01:22:00.761

<Maya>Yeah, where can we connect with you, lori?

 

01:22:00.975 --> 01:22:02.622

<Maya>Where are you comfortable connecting with people?

 

01:22:02.775 --> 01:22:04.322

<Maya>Are you active on social media?

 

01:22:04.495 --> 01:22:05.319

<Maya>Where can we connect with you?

 

01:22:06.497 --> 01:22:07.521

<Lori>Yeah, I probably.

 

01:22:07.581 --> 01:22:08.845

<Lori>Instagram is probably the best.

 

01:22:08.895 --> 01:22:15.644

<Lori>I'm trying to curate that a little bit more and you're going to probably start seeing a few more posts about what I'm doing next.

 

01:22:15.915 --> 01:22:16.960

<Lori>And it's just really easy.

 

01:22:17.235 --> 01:22:22.814

<Lori>It's just, you know, instagram.com slash lori, L-O-R-I-L-U-N-A Perfect.

 

01:22:23.658 --> 01:22:24.802

<Maya>And we'll put it in the show notes too.

 

01:22:25.095 --> 01:22:27.341

<Maya>So, Instagram is perfect to connect with you.

 

01:22:28.524 --> 01:22:29.957

<Maya>I love that, lori.

 

01:22:29.997 --> 01:22:32.024

<Maya>Thank you for your vulnerability today.

 

01:22:32.435 --> 01:22:38.326

<Maya>This is one of the hardest topics I find that you know again, I'm not a fan of comparison.

 

01:22:38.555 --> 01:22:48.637

<Maya>I think it's not only the thief of joy, but it's also the thief of grief, and it's also like the thief of validation right and so.

 

01:22:48.898 --> 01:22:55.939

<Maya>But homicide suicide, some of these really heavy topics we're in some groups and some clubs.

 

01:22:55.979 --> 01:22:57.164

<Maya>I'd never wish on anyone.

 

01:22:57.255 --> 01:23:07.142

<Maya>So thank you for really shedding a lot of light on this and such a raw and you know, a death that happened so, so fresh.

 

01:23:07.303 --> 01:23:08.105

<Lori>So you know so.

 

01:23:08.465 --> 01:23:13.843

<Lori>Yeah, Thank you for having this platform and creating this platform for for other voices.

 

01:23:14.684 --> 01:23:16.447

<Maya>It's a gift, my pleasure.

 

01:23:16.548 --> 01:23:17.229

<Maya>Thank you, lori.

 

01:23:17.775 --> 01:23:22.119

<Maya>Thank you for being here and thank you guys so much for listening to the Surviving Siblings podcast.

 

01:23:31.155 --> 01:23:34.304

<Maya>Thank you so much for listening to the Surviving Siblings podcast.

 

01:23:35.195 --> 01:23:49.157

<Maya>If you enjoyed this episode as much as I did creating it for you, then share it on your chosen social media platform and don't forget to tag us at Surviving Siblings podcast so that more surviving siblings can find us.

 

01:23:50.095 --> 01:23:57.363

<Maya>Remember to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast, and don't forget to follow us on all social media platforms.

 

01:23:58.275 --> 01:24:03.106

<Maya>We're on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok at Surviving Siblings podcast.

 

01:24:03.975 --> 01:24:08.200

<Maya>All links can be found in the show notes, so be sure to check those out too.

 

01:24:09.435 --> 01:24:10.519

<Maya>Thank you again for the support.

 

01:24:11.435 --> 01:24:15.320

<Maya>Until the next episode, keep on surviving my surviving siblings.