Kara Loses Brandon To  Emphysema

Kara Loses Brandon To  Emphysema-Podcast
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Welcome to the Surviving Siblings Podcast. I'm your host Maya ler as a surviving sibling myself. I knew that I wanted to share my story, my brother's story. I lost my brother to a homicide in November, 2016, and after going through this experience, I knew that I wanted to share my story and his story, and now it's your turn to share your stories.

I have another incredible surviving sibling with me today. Her name is Kara Lee. Kara, welcome to the Surviving Siblings Podcast. Hi Maria. Thanks for having me. Yeah, it's my pleasure. I am always excited to have a sibling, which sounds like such a weird thing, but excited to have a sibling on in a loss that we haven't really uncovered and talked [00:01:00] about before.

And there's so many layers about the loss of your brother that are interesting to me, and we're gonna explore and talk about today. You've lost your brother in a way we had not discussed on the show before. And there's also aspects of your loss where there's. Not a lot of closure that happens. Right and right.

And I did a full episode very early on in the first season where I say there's no such thing as closure. And I feel like we're gonna talk about that quite a bit on this episode today. But before we dive into that, tell us a little bit about you and Brandon. Kara, tell us, take us back in time. Tell us a little bit about you guys growing up.

What life was like, your dynamic, your relationship, because you only lost Brandon A. Little over four years ago. Yeah. So take us back in time and share that with us. Well, I come from a family of three kids. Brandon was my older brother. I was the middle, [00:02:00] and I have a younger sister as well who's still with us.

We really were really lucky growing up. Our parents were. Okay, well off financially, let's not be around the bush. So we never really wanted for anything. You know, we got to go on holidays, we got to do the camping, we got to have the toys and, you know, all the things. And so life was really easy when we were young.

But my brother got into his addiction really early. Um, he started using. That we know of when he was about 14. I think it was actually a little earlier. Yeah, I think it was actually a little earlier because he got somebody pregnant at 13 and had a child at 14, which we didn't find out about until the child was 19.

So, wait, wait. I mean, we're like two minutes into this and you're already dropping some, like, this is such a plot twist. What? Okay, we'll come back to that. Yeah. But, [00:03:00] oh my gosh. Okay. Well, my parents, I mean, my parents worked a lot. They owned a business. They worked a ton. We were really busy in , our life with extracurriculars, dance, hockey, sports, you name it.

So in a way it was really easy to get up to. No good. We live, I mean, I come from a family of a lot of drinking. Um, so there was a lot of. And partying on the parental side of our childhood too. Um, so I mean, anybody who's lived in that knows that it's easy. To get into it. What it's, and there's a normalcy around it, right?

Yeah. So it's not like it's, yeah. I relate to that myself, and I attest sometimes my brother's addiction and even my struggles with it earlier in life, because it's just around, you don't think twice about it. I get you, Kara. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. You really don't like alcohol just is like the normal thing that adults do after work, you know?

Like it was never a big thing. And like even pot wasn't a big thing. Like tho those were considered non. [00:04:00] Discussion items amongst the adults. So right when he started using, I don't think that they really caught on too soon when it was pot, but when he started getting into the heavier stuff, they figured it out pretty quickly and tried to almost scare him straight.

When that happened, how old was he? Uh, I wanna say. 15. So this happened pretty quickly for him? Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. He got into crack really young. Wow. So it, it really early on, it created like a tension within my family. My mom was always trying to protect the kids.

My dad had a serious anger issues. And so it just created this division really, really early on. His using, and I remember they talked about rehab. Never really did it. Rehab isn't super readily available in Canada. There's very few government funded spots and there really wasn't much around us [00:05:00] at that point either.

Um, to pay for it is in the five digits. Yeah. So, even though we had money, I don't think they ever thought that was something that they would spend it on. And then he got like, I don't know. We, we went on, we did so many things together. We just like, we went on so many holidays and enjoyed so many things in our life.

But when he started getting into the drugs and it started causing so many problems with him and my dad fighting, that's where I found that I started withdrawing. From just wanting to participate. Um, and I started running away when I was 15, 16, um, just to get away from all the anger in the household.

Right, right. So it, it really trickled into you as well. And what's the age difference between you and your brother Kara? Uh, he was born September 81 and I was April 83. So two. [00:06:00] Two and a half years. Quite close in age. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So , that was a hard hitting thing after he died too, was the age surpassing.

Oh yeah, that's, that is, that is a moment. And that's something that I hear all the time from siblings. I mean, you, you guys know, you connect with me on social platforms and stuff, and people will always say like that. That's a big moment. I am older than my brother. Right. So that never happened for me, but I watch it like clockwork happen with my sister.

Yeah. Who's younger than him and she's seven years younger than him. So it took a little bit of time. So I had gotten into this space, Kara, where, you know, I was interviewing siblings doing this show. Yeah. And hearing about it. And I was like, let's see. I didn't say anything to her because I was like, let's see, and I watched it.

Clockwork when she turned the same age as him and then when she turned 28, which is a year older than him and she ended up getting a tattoo for him, it was like we were now aligned more for, and you've got your tattoo for him, [00:07:00] right? It's like clockwork that this happens is so fascinating. Okay, so your brother is going through a lot and he went.

He went into hard, I mean, that's hardcore drugs. Yeah. That he's into at this point. At a very young age. He was very young and things are quite contentious between him and your father. And you are kind of escaping from all this. So how does this continue to move forward? Because you only lost your brother four years ago.

So what does life look like in your adult life as you guys leave the home and kind of go into your lives? What was that like for you? I mean, I spent the. Bulk of my teenage years cleaning up his messes. Sure. I remember when I got my driver's license, when I turned 16, I was going out with my girlfriends to go drive around.

Just wanted to drive, right? Um, and he is like, oh, come on, I'll let me take you with you or take me with you. I'll give you some gas. I'll [00:08:00] pay for some gas. And I remember stopping at a gas station and he was pumping the gas, and all of a sudden he's got the door open and he's throwing everything out of his pockets and all his jewelry off into the car, just chucking it in there, saying, don't say a word.

Don't say a word. And then he is just like gone. He, this car behind us had taken him, putting him in the trunk of the car. Thank God, the, and I found out it was a drug dealer that he owed money to. And I found out that the boyfriend I had at the time was actually, acquaintances with one of the guys that was there, and he knew me.

And so he came up to my car. He's like, Hey, don't worry, this has to happen, but I won't let them kill him. He's like, follow me and I'll keep you. I'll keep you informed. And so I remember sitting in a, an apartment parking lot for hours. Oh my God. Just waiting. And like cell phones weren't a thing then, right?

We had like a family phone or like a bag phone, you know, like it wasn't a thing. So I'm sitting in this car just waiting while he's getting the shit beat out of him.

[00:09:00] If you've lost a sibling, trust me. I know exactly how you feel. I'm Maya. I'm the host of the Surviving Siblings Podcast, but I'm also the founder of Surviving Siblings Support. I know that going through this experience is extremely difficult. Whether you've lost a brother like me, a sister, or perhaps more than one sibling, trust me, we know exactly how you feel.

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But yeah, it just, it continued going on and on and on. And then, um, eventually I moved away. I moved, left the city that we lived in and I moved about two hours south. My parents had in this time split up when I was 18 and gone through a nasty divorce. Um, I moved to Calgary to be closer to my dad and get [00:11:00] out of that toxic city that we lived in.

And he ended up, he had a girlfriend. He got, had her for quite a few years. And then in 2004, um, they had been together, I think about three years at that point. And she got pregnant. At this point, we didn't know about the first baby from when he was 13. So I was gonna say, if we go back in time for a moment, there's another baby that we haven't talked about.

Yeah. Which we'll come back to. Okay. So he's about to become a father for what you think is the first time, but it's not so, yeah. And my mom kept saying to me, I think he's gonna clean his act up. I thi I think that something's coming. That's just gonna make him clean. His act up. He's gonna shake up.

And I'm like, yeah, right. And then I found out his girlfriend was pregnant. So they have a baby. I actually ended up getting pregnant, so they had a baby. Eight weeks later I had a baby, then I had a baby, and six months [00:12:00] later they had a baby. Wow. And while I was pregnant with the second baby, they were still together.

She was not yet pregnant and I was having a horrific pregnancy. I was, I spent. The better part of five months of this pregnancy in the hospital. But he called me one day and he was, I could tell he was messed up on the phone, like he was just gone. And he is like, she's gonna leave me. She's gonna take my kid, she's gonna leave me.

I don't know what to do. He is bawling his eyes out, he's unconsolable. And I'm like, well, you know what you need to do. You know what you need to do. If that's what she's saying she's gonna do, you know that she deserves to do that. And you deserve to have it done and you know what you need to do to fix it.

So I had pulled some strings. My ex-sister-in-law at the time worked at the hospital and so I got her to pull some strings within the healthcare system and got 'em into a detox in my city. 'cause to go get into any programs you have to go [00:13:00] to and be detoxed for five days, and I got in the car, I had just gotten outta the hospital like two days before.

Got in the car, drove two hours north to go pick him up 'cause he couldn't drive. And when I got there, the music was so loud you could hear it down the block like he's passed out, just gone. And I'm like, oh good, this is gonna be fun. Got him in the car, brought him home. He had spent a night at my house.

'cause check into detox was at like 5:00 AM or something stupid. And so I went that night and I went and got him like some clean clothes and like comfy pajamas and like comfy stuff for de. I knew it wasn't gonna be good. Yeah. You know, got paper, this, this is not a fun experience. Paper pen pillows, blankets, like all the comfort items.

And I'm like, this is gonna happen. And then that night when he passed out, I phoned everybody in my family. My grandma was in the city. I phoned my [00:14:00] dad, my mom, my sister. I phoned his closest friends and I said, and his girlfriend. And I said, if he calls you to pick him up, you do not do it. You leave him there.

Mm-hmm. Because I know my, I come from a family of enablers. They'll all do it. And so they all agreed not to. And what do you know? His freaking girlfriend ends up being the one who comes and picks him up. I feel like that's what you're to. I don't have a problem. Mm-hmm. I have, I don't have a problem. I don't belong here.

And somehow he convinced her that, and somehow they convinced her mother that, and they thought going camping was going to fix it. Oh my gosh.

That's a big moment in the story, I'm sure like that you think back to often, right? You're like, if only, yeah. Do you go back in time sometimes and you're like, if only he had stayed, like what would be d Yeah. I know it's not healthy for us to do that, but I'm, there are these moments, especially when we have a sibling who struggles with addiction [00:15:00] because mine did as well and it's tough 'cause you're like, well, what if this, what if that?

And like you can't live there. Right. But like, yeah. It's nor I wanna make it normal for everybody that listens to this show and like everybody that's lost a sibling or someone through addiction like us. Like it's normal to feel those things. We can't live there, but it's normal, so it's, yeah. I always say, you know why?

You can go and take a visit, ask the questions, just don't wanna unpack your bags and live there. Oh, I love that. It's not a place to stay. It's a vacation, not a destination. Right. Yeah. Love that. Absolutely agree with you. Yeah. They, they ended up having another kid. I ended up having, like, all our kids are like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Wow. And then they ended up splitting up anyway. Which we knew was gonna happen. Mm-hmm. Um, he just, he had a little bit after a second baby was born. I kind of, those the quiet days because. He was good for a bit after she was born. He wanted to be around the kids. He was taking the kids swimming all the time and just like doing the dad thing, enjoying [00:16:00] it.

And then, you know, I mean, anybody who's dealt with or has been loves, somebody who's dealt with addiction knows it takes one second to change at all, and that was it. And never really got him back after that. We kind of spent. All of our adult years in like a back and forth of me cutting him off because his behaviors aren't healthy for me to have to continually deal with him promising me I'm never gonna die from this.

I've got this. And then he apparently got sober. For a few months. The summer before he died, COVID was really hard on him though. Like he was alone. He wasn't seeing his kids at this point. And from then it kind of trickled. So when he got sober after that, I didn't even know. He didn't tell me. I was the only person he didn't tell.

Why do you think that is? I think 'cause he was embarrassed because I had fought so hard from him in the [00:17:00] past. I think that now it was like, I don't want to tell her until I know it's good to go. Yeah. Until it like sticks. Until this is like the one he felt like you were the, the big honcho in all of this.

Wanna I was the older sibling. Yeah. I wanna, wanna prove, right. I wanna prove to her that I can do this. Yeah. Yeah, I was the only one that didn't enable him at all, ever. I never hard said, you can come stay with me for free because you're too busy spending money on drugs to pay for rent. I never, you know, gave him a soft place to land in it.

I always stuck to my guns that I'm not going to support your habit. You are an adult. You need to get yourself out of this. I've offered help. I've tried to help in productive ways, but I won't help in offering you a cushioned bed when you're not doing anything to help yourself. Yeah. I, I, Kara, I think it's so hard to have that role in the family.

It's really hard to have that role. The caretaker. [00:18:00] Yeah. And, but it's interesting because the person, like your brother. Like my brother that struggles with addiction. They don't always see you in those moments as the caretaker, but you are. And it's interesting because my parents both enabled my brother so much.

So much and in different ways. My father, more financially, my mom somewhat financially, but she didn't have that kind of money my dad did. Right. So it was more from love. Exact same, right. Care. God, we have. It's so interesting. Every person that comes on the show, I have different things in common with, and we have this in common and it's, um.

It was really hard to do tough love because this is, I'm leading up to this question for you because a lot of siblings, as you see on TikTok and in our Facebook group at different places, they struggle with the guilt. They struggle with that guilt because they were the tough one, or they were the one that gave kind of tough love.

And I'm sure that's something that you go through and we'll talk about it more later in the episode too, but. [00:19:00] That's a hard component to this, right? To know, like you knew you were doing the right thing, but also to lose your sibling, then you feel guilty. So you've gotta balance both of that, and that's really hard.

And I'm sure you're struggling with that too, to this day. Oh yeah. I mean, I've done years of therapy. I'm the only person in my family who's actually put effort into going to therapy to try and heal my wounds from the past. When he died, that was a huge focus of therapy, was my guilt, was like, oh my God, did he know I loved him when he died?

Did he know I cared? Did he just think that I was this horrific human being who put up a wall and said, Nope, you know, your admissions ended. So I, I, I do struggle with that a lot, and I, I think more so because I know that I was hard on him. I know that I was a little bit cold at the end because I was just [00:20:00] so fed up with it by then.

You know, it's a long time to be going through this. Yeah, yeah. It's a long time. 25 plus years of his addiction, so yeah. So, so take us to that moment. Take us to when you lost him in 2022. Like you said, look, COVID was tough for all of us, but I do feel that COVID was especially hard on people with addiction.

And I'm not saying it wasn't especially hard on other people, like, especially like really social people. It was super hard on them too. Don't get me wrong. Um, like yeah, I mean, 'cause I'm an extrovert and I was like going nuts so that I wasn't traveling and doing things. So like yeah. But I feel like people with a addiction.

I'm not saying they're the only ones that suffer, but I feel like there is like a lot of that pain there because we were literally put in isolation where drinking was like encouraged. It was like, yeah, the only thing was open. Right. Nothing, like nothing was open. Everything could be delivered and [00:21:00] it was like it Yeah.

You know, have your drinks stay at home, Netflix and binge and whatever. Yeah. And it's like everybody was drinking, so it was like, it was this weird thing that it was like socially acceptable to be like. Drinking all the time and like just being at home and like, well, it was like, it's like, oh, you're having a tough day.

No problem. Have your cocktail at 12. Like literally, this was how it was. Yeah. So that's why I always say I find it, I, I find it kind of a difficult environment for people who struggle with drugs and alcohol for sure. Like, what the hell else were you gonna do? I'm not saying that it was okay, but you know what I mean?

So I get, and I think like loneliness. Sure. Like the loneliness really got to him. 'cause he lived alone. He didn't have a roommate, he didn't have anybody that he lived with. He's wasn't seeing his kids. Yeah. He, you know, like, it just, I was a city away. My sister had babies, like newborn twins that were NICU babies, so she couldn't be around them.

Right. Um, so it was just like a [00:22:00] whole, like just a tornado of, of, you know, crap that happened. Yeah. Um, but. Oh, before I get to the actual day, I will quickly brief you on the fourth baby. Yeah, no, tell us. That was a random thing. I was driving, I was out of town driving, for work. And this 2014, I remember, and I got this, he kept phoning and I was like, oh my God, I don't wanna deal with you right now.

And finally I'm like, okay, I got a 20 minute stretch of driving here. I'm gonna phone him while I'm driving and just like get this done. And then I have an excuse to get off the phone because he could talk forever. And he is like, I phone it. And all he says is, you're a great aunt. I'm like, I know. Like, okay.

I know I'm, I know I'm a great aunt this point. I had like, what, six? Six nieces and nephews. Yeah. So, or seven. He's like, no, you are a great aunt. And I'm like, what? Can you just do this in English please? [00:23:00] He's like, okay. He's like, so I got this phone call and anyways, for it Turns out it was the baby mama calling to say that.

She did not have a termination when he was four, 13 years old when he knew she was pregnant back then, she kept the baby has been raising it. This whole time looks identical to my brother. Sounds identical to my brother, same mannerisms, everything. Kids 19 years old and has a 1-year-old. So my brother is now a grandpa.

That's insane. And this was the first time you found out that the child like existed Steve ever was a thing. Oh my God. That's, and the funniest thing is, the child went to school with my mom's best friend's daughter, yet outta here, his full school life. And he literally is a duplicate of my brother.

I don't know how she didn't put it together. So crazy. Oh my gosh. Different last name obviously. So, I mean, but still it was real strange. [00:24:00] Yeah. So, yeah. Um. Chris. So right before we found out he died was, it was Christmas because he, January 6th is when he died. Um, that Christmas I stayed home with just like my husband and my kids and my mom.

My sister went to my mom's house for Christmas that year. They're all in the same city. And I guess my brother went too and my sister phoned me after he left and she just said he's gonna die. Whoa. That's all she said. I'm like, what? She's like, he looked like a corpse. She said his face was sun in, he was gray.

He was so skinny. And after I saw him when he had passed, I was like, yep, now I know what she was talking about. Now, it was only a couple weeks later. Right. So that night it was like. 10:36 PM um, I'd, I put my phone on do not disturb at night. 'cause [00:25:00] I come from a family of drinkers who like to happy dial when they've had too many mm-hmm.

At any given hour. Um, so it goes on Do not disturb. My sister kept calling and I'm like, oh my God. Which I went through that. Yep. Uhhuh. Yep. I'm like, okay. She obviously needs something and I knew at this point she was going through a nasty divorce. Hmm. Like really nasty with like 2-year-old 2-year-old twins.

Yeah. 2-year-old twins. Oh my God. So it was, and it was just really, really bad for her at that point. Um, so I was like, okay, I better pick up the phone. So I finally pick it up and I will tell you I have not slept a day without that sound in my ear. All I can hear is that sound. The sound of her screaming was annihilation.

I felt like I could feel the earth shaking and I just knew all, I couldn't understand what she was saying. Not a word, but the screaming I knew and I'm like, okay, you need to slow [00:26:00] down what happened. And all she said is Facebook. We found out my brother died on Facebook. Get outta here.

Like who posted this? So there's a little note for other people in the world that might be listening. Yeah. If you are not the immediate family member of the person who died, do not post RIP so and so on their fa on Facebook until, you know, the frigging family has found out. Because from then I had to scramble phone my father, my sisters with my mom.

So she told her, and then I had to get on the phone and try and find out where the hell my brother was because nobody knew. So who po who posted this? What is wild though? Kara is like, you're, you might be the first interview that this has happened. I apologize if I forget guys. But I have heard other siblings telling me, yeah, someone posted this.

I'm like, guys, social media's a beautiful, wonderful thing, but it is not for personal stuff like this. So yes, take the disclaimer from you Kara, for sure. [00:27:00] But like, oh, it was awful. Who posted this? Who would do that? , I think it was his best friend, who I inherited after he passed away. Yeah, I think I didn't see the post by the time that I had started making phone calls.

It was down. Mm-hmm. Um, so I guess what happened is this kid that we grew up with, same name as my brother, weird enough, he. Started sending messages to every single person on Facebook with my brother's last name. I didn't get a message because I didn't have the same last name. Oh my gosh. So everybody with my brother's last name had a message or a message request from this guy saying, Brandon's dead.

And that's all it said. Oh my gosh. I'm like, what the hell? So I found the guy's phone number. I got on the phone with him and I'm like, I need details, like what the heck is going on? And I got as much detail as I could [00:28:00] from him. He named the funeral home that he said had him. So I called the funeral home.

They told me at that point, and like, keep in mind, this is like 10 30, 11:00 PM. I got the phone call at ten thirty six, so we're within a half an hour still of all of this commotion, and I phoned the funeral home and they told me that he was already being transported to the city that I'm in for autopsy.

I'm like, okay. I'm a little confused at this point because nobody has contacted my family. There has not been police. There has not been a, a medical examiner. There has not nobody, so they said they found my brother, they robbed him. Who did? Who? Then they sent messages out to everybody with the last name saying he's dead and left.

Okay, so your brother had died and these people had found him, robbed him, and then made a call and left. That's insane. Wow. [00:29:00] Yeah. Okay. So that's, yeah. So we actually thought that they killed him for a very long time. That was okay. Our assumption was that they killed him. Sure. And I'll tell you, uh, I phoned the RCMP in Red Deer on February 22nd, I wanna say 2022.

Mm-hmm. I still haven't got a phone call back. Yeah. You had mentioned that, when you connected with us. But yeah, so they robbed him and then, phoned it in and sent the messages out. And then I guess the cops came and hauled his body away.

What? And nobody's ever contacted my parents. That's. Crazy. And like what, like did he owe them money? Is that why they were robbing him? Like what was the origin of that? They're just all a bunch of addicts that Yeah. Steal to are all toxic to each other. Feed, steal to feed, right? Uh, yeah, exactly.

I think they're both, one of 'em I think is dead now and the other one I think is in jail, so Wow. For [00:30:00] other. But he had like this guilty conscious to like message all these people after that happened. Yeah. Like, it's super bizarre because there's like a security camera at the door, but there's no footage, so it's like it was disconnected.

There's, I guess there was Narcan all over the living room, so they were trying to resuscitate him and bring but I did, but there, his autopsy shows there's no Narcan in his system. And even the drugs in his system, there was, there was fentanyl in his sys, in his system in the autopsy, but it was less than the amount that I got for a colonoscopy on Tuesday.

So it's not even enough to have caused him to get high at that point. So bring us forward to like the autopsy and what you like. Did you guys ever get results? Did you ever find out like what killed him? Like what happened? I mean, this is like. Yeah, so when he died, I just kind of went into [00:31:00] rescuer mode.

Like that's just kind of my default setting is to take over and get the stuff done, get the work done. Um, so I was dealing with everything his, his taxes and the government stuff, and the coroner, like the medical examiner's offices. But I'm in Canada. Our system is so messed up that when, unless it's, um, like a suspicious death, uh, of a homicide or something that they find the co like the cops find randomly or something like that.

Um. There's no rush on the au autopsy at all, and toxicology is always really long. So I had to wait. I, I waited, they had him that day, so the 6th of January and I waited until December. I wanna say it was the 18th of December, 18th or 22nd. It was right, right before Christmas, um, that I got the results. So it was almost a full year before we had any, I was gonna say [00:32:00] you lost him Ja.

In January. That's insane. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it was nerve wracking. 'cause they don't really give you a heads up. It comes in the mail, it doesn't come in email. There's not really any notice. So when I had, and you have to pay for it. So when I had sent away the application and the fee, then I got.

A receipt in the mail and when that came, I just remember like felt like throwing up when I gotta the mailbox and saw the office of the medical examiner, I'm like, oh God, already. But it was just a receipt. So then it was just like every time I checked the mail, it was just like. Anxiety through the roof, just wondering what was gonna be there for a whole year.

And I finally, I wanna say it was November that I finally called them and I was like, Hey, I'm not trying to pester you, but is there any way I can get a heads up when this is going out, at least so that I can just be prepared instead of just always being anxious for Yeah, I don't blame you. Absolutely.

Yeah. And so then it came and I kind of was [00:33:00] torn on whether I wanted to just like read it. Or if I wanted my husband to look first, right? He is amazing. He even built my brother's casket, so, oh my. Wait, what? Yeah. Alright. What's your husband's? When I went. His name's Mark. Okay, mark, we love you. That's amazing.

He's not, all of us have supportive spouses when we go through this, right? So, no, he drove me. He drove me up there right after my brother died. And I spent the next few days with my mom and my sister dealing with the funeral stuff. And when we were there and I saw, like, of course, my brother had no money, no life insurance, no plans.

So when I saw what they were wanting to put him in and what the cost of it was, I was like, uh, no. I threw up in my mouth, left the room, phoned my husband, I'm build. Just like Brandon, he said yes. He's like, I mean, I haven't, but I can. Oh my God. He even laid in it to make sure my brother would fit. Mark, who are you?

Do you have a brother? I'm just kidding. He two [00:34:00] actually. Okay. We'll talk afterwards. Anyways, they're both married. Sorry. Okay. Unfortunate, unfortunate for everyone else, but he, he even like engraved only the good die young in it. 'cause my brother loved Billy Joel and like that was like a special thing for us.

So even though it's burned now, at least it was pretty for me to yell at him in it for a few hours. Yeah. But yeah, so like I, I decided that I was going to read it. I just, I couldn't wait. Sure. So I read the results and I'll tell you warning to anybody that is going to read an autopsy and toxicology report that literally tells you every detail, every detail of their body.

I had to read about areas of my brother I did not wanna read about. Exactly. Exactly. And the other part of this very detailed too, I'm so glad you're talking about this, Kara, I really appreciate it. Because the other part of it too, it's really detailed 'cause you read about every part of their body because everything and everything.

But then in addition to that, it's also really difficult when you're in deep mourning and grief, which, [00:35:00] hello, in the first year, let alone couple years, you're in deep grief. So it's quite. Difficult to read about someone that you love so deeply. Yeah. In such a like. 10,000, 50,000 foot view. Right. It's so removed emotionally.

Yeah. Did you For me, that, that's what was very difficult too. I was like, how dare they kind of, and I'm like, Maya, like I had to remind myself and I always talk to all of you guys about that too, in group and different. You know, engagements that we have. Just remember, this is their job. Right? It's not that they don't care about your sibling.

Yeah. It's just they're not, did you find that a little bit unarm too, to kind of read it in that kind of like totally unemotional objective kind of way? It can be a little intense. Did you find that too? I mean, I was a psych major when he died. So you had a little prep first gone in. I had originally gone in to do midwifery and switched to psych, so I, I.

Was prepared and actually, funny enough or not, um, this happened [00:36:00] over the winter semester break. My first class that I had back when I went back to school was the psychology of death and dying. Get out of here. That's crazy. And my major assignment was to plan my own funeral. Really? God, we don't have classes like that in the us.

That's interesting. It was the best class. It sounds incredible. Is one of the only license licensed pH pH, I think is what it's called. I, special specialist on death. Wow. Um, yeah. We're so undereducated here in the us So this is fascinating to me because like, you know what I'm saying? I think that's, I mean, there's, I literally just got done chatting with another, gal who's a therapist on our show, and she was saying, you know, disclaimer and I learned this in 21 when I started thinking about doing the show that like.

Grief therapists, like they don't actually, and therapists, like they don't actually get trained on grief here in the us Kara, there's no class they take. Yeah. [00:37:00] So I'm telling you, Canada's ahead of the curve. When you go through school and you become a therapist, or you become a PhD, you become a doctor. In psychology, you, there's no class you take on grief.

Oh, that's scary. Isn't that wild? So it's up to them to educate themselves. That's why we're very picky about who we have on and who comes and speaks up. Like our summit and stuff, we wanna make sure they have an education in the space and have experienced sibling. Great. We have to be very cautious about that.

I was also a crisis line responder. Yeah, at the time, so I had been kind of in good exposure, that routine, right? Like that was what I was living was, yeah. Psych psychology and crisis. So it was kind of, it almost helped me compartmentalize everything. Yeah. And just like push it all down to get through the answers.

And I think that one of the most important things that I learned having to take that class right [00:38:00] then, I think it was actually really beneficial for me because it gave me a lot of tools to think about how grief does affect you and about the lies out there about grief really like it, it's not some sort of linear.

Thing that you're gonna hit this step and then this step and this step and this step, and then you're fine. Right? Grief isn't linear. It doesn't work the same for everybody. It doesn't look the same and it doesn't have a timeline. It's more of an oscillation that can come out of nowhere, kick you in the side of the head and run away just as fast as it showed up.

Mm-hmm. It's just something that's always there. Yeah. You just learn to live around the whole. I started writing a book about him after he died. Because I got the autopsy. I guess I How fast was that? Yeah, how quickly did you start that? Because I've had other people share this with me and like some people are like, that's how I worked through it.

Did you just start taking pen to paper [00:39:00] right away? Pretty immediately. Yeah. Yeah. So it was a part of your processing? Yeah. Well I knew, I knew, so, okay, so I'll finish the autopsy. So I read it, got through it. Turned out his cause of death was actually emphysema. Um, not drug overdose. He did have drugs in his system, but emphysema, emphysema was the main cause, which we know was from years of smoking, all sorts of things.

Um, so that was almost like, that kind of drove a different, angle for me because now I'm like, wait a minute. Everybody's always focused on the bad. And then I heard this person, I can't remember who it was, it might. Mate or someone, said that people will remember you for your mistakes and the bad that you do for years and years and years and years, they'll only remember the good you do while it's in front of 'em.

And that shifted my book [00:40:00] focus. I had been writing about his addiction and getting through that and my side of his addiction, but as much as I want to tell that. That survival. I also want people to know the good of him because he wasn't just this addiction, he wasn't just the bad things. He was also the most loving human being on the planet.

He was so kind. He just had something in him that he couldn't work through and didn't know how to work through and wasn't given the tools to work through, you know?

And so that was kind of the catharsis for me, was writing about him, reading quotes, listening to lectures, going to my class on death, and like gleaning from all these people that have all this experience in the area, and using that to drive me, to make it something positive instead of reflecting on the negative of, of what had happened.[00:41:00] 

I think that's beautiful. I think I, I mean, Kara, that's amazing and thank you for sharing that with us. And again, I'm so intrigued that you guys have a class about this. Again, it's so intriguing and that's why I love, like interviewing people from totally different backgrounds and places because it's fascinating to see how different cultures handle or don't handle like grief.

I think it's wonderful for all of you who are listening to hear Kara and like just, you weren't just like journaling, like you were also going to a class and like you were doing things for yourself and you know, like there's all these things that you were doing for yourself in your grief, and I think.

Sometimes people get advice that like, oh, just write everything down, or just go to therapy. Or just like, there's a lot of components that go into processing and like working through your grief. And I really love what you said about the fact that like this whole quote, 'cause I've heard it too. I know exactly what you're talking about, where like people are remembered for, you know, just in the moment, the good stuff.

But like, and I think there's also, there's [00:42:00] an additional thing I would add onto that too, Kara. I think sometimes people glorify people too when they've died. Like we don't talk about, we just glorify them. Right. And what's so interesting to me on this experience in just sharing my experience and then having the honor of sharing your experiences as siblings coming on the show and then everyone that listens.

Um, I remember when my father said to me, I didn't know how he would take this show. I didn't know most of my family's not happy about the show. I don't care. I haven't told anyone. Yeah, well that's okay. It's okay. And, um, you know, so it's, it's an interesting thing and I remember when my dad finally gave me his opinion about it, and it was about two years into the show and I was like, well, what do you think?

Not that it was stopping me, you know, 'cause here we are, right. Summit Support Group, a show. You know what I mean? Like, this has become something that I've done as a passion project to help siblings. Right. And I'm not stopping, but he was like, one of the things that I, I think [00:43:00] made me. Really appreciate it and really like what you're doing is, you didn't just talk about my brother Andreas.

You didn't just talk about the good, you talk about him as a human. You talk about you not, you are not just saying, he's just perfect 'cause he died. You're talking about the good and the bad and that really resonated with me and it, I literally thought of that when you were just sharing about how you're like, I wanna talk about the good you should because your brother is a human.

You know, they're not here anymore, right? They're not physically here, but like they're human. There's good and bad. There's good and bad that comes with me. There's good and bad that comes with you, Kara, right? And so we deserve as humans to be remembered for all of it, for all of it, and to be honored in that way.

And I think it's really beautiful that you are on a mission to do that for your brother as well, because I think, I think it's important. And I remember feeling just so like. Like someone in my family actually gets it because [00:44:00] yeah, I'm trying to honor him and be really real about who he was. Like my brother was an addict and he struggled and he had mental health, you know, stuff.

But like my brother was also. Funny as hell. Super creative, the most determined person in the world. He was my biggest cheerleader. He was also an asshole to me sometimes, but you know what I mean? It's all of that is what makes you a person. And so I connect with you really deeply on that part of your story too, and I think it's really great.

I can't, I'm gonna keep bugging you. I'm gonna be like, when's that book coming out? Because I, not to read a book, I've got, it's probably about half done., I kind of let it go by the wayside for a bit. My health really took a turn. I think that after the com, compar com compartmentalization quit and everything of.

Own grief kind of rush out. It's the quiet after the storm, right? Everybody's around for the first 3, 4, 5, 6 months, and then everybody just drops off the face of the earth. And the dynamic of my familial relationships really changed [00:45:00] over the last couple of years. And so I kind of just let the book go for a bit, but I've been revisiting it.

I think that's also a good thing though, Kara, that like we share with everyone listening to your episode because I used to feel like this was like a sprint.

Like I had to tell my brother's story. I had to solve the crime. I had to do all of these things. And like the reality is. We're still here, we're grieving them. So whether it takes you a year, a decade, 20 years to finish the book, it's a part of your grieving journey, and that's okay. It doesn't have to all, and I think that's a part of the slowing down process and realizing that like.

Because it feels like when you first lose your sibling, you're just like, everything's an urgency, an emergency. Yeah. And you have to do it all. Did you exp Yeah. It sounds like you experienced Oh, totally. Like you think that you need to get it all. , It's just gotta be. So, and I mean, I am a control freak too.

Like, I like to have things done a certain way and I like to do it myself and I [00:46:00] like to be prepared and, and so it definitely was like a go, go, go, go, go for that year. And then after that I was like, why am I rushing? I can, I can rush. It's not gonna bring him back. It's not gonna change the outcome of what's already been.

He is where he is sitting on top of my piano in a plastic jar for now. But like it won't change anything. And it was never for anybody but me. Anyway. So I guess that's kind of, let me slow down and be able to really put the thought into it that I wanna, yeah. And, and when you're ready, we're excited to read it and we're excited for you to be a part of the community.

I'm glad you, I'm so glad you found us and I'm just Thank you for sharing Brandon with us. And you know, I am always looking to share like unique perspectives and unique stories and you know, I think it's really difficult when you lose a sibling. Who struggled with drugs, alcohol, addiction, and [00:47:00] then you find out they died a different way because you were expecting a certain way.

So there's that kind of aspect too. And then you're like, well, yeah, so, and then you read the autopsy, like you're prepared for the call until it comes, right? And then, and then when there's a twist on the call, you're like, wait, I wasn't ready for that. I was preparing for, so I totally connect with you on that level.

For sure. Kara, lemme ask you this and then we'll talk about where people can find you and where you're comfortable. But, um. What, like you're four over four years into this, one of our more newly briefed siblings that has been on the show, but we, again, we just connected and I enjoyed connecting with you via email and, I felt like this was, you felt very ready and I'm so glad you know, you shared everything with us today, but what is maybe something I haven't asked you or something that you wanna share with all of the siblings and supporters listening?

From your experience and kind of where you're going, um, maybe some words of wisdom, some hope you can give the audience and where you're going, because I know it's been a journey for you and you've had some, like, as you [00:48:00] shared with us too, you've had some ailments and some things that have transpired from this, but you still wanted to come on and share branded with us, and you still feel very hopeful.

So any, anything I didn't ask you that you wanna share with us or any last pieces of advice? Um.

I don't think I have anything really. I think it's more just like, just remember, it's not, it's not a linear process. It's not steps in a row. You're not, there's never an end to grief. I, I, when I was researching grief and learning about it, I, I stumbled upon, um, I believe it's Japanese or kazuki. I. Um, when porcelain breaks, they don't throw it away.

They mend it and they patch it back together with gold. Yes. And that's what holds it together. So we may never heal. We probably won't ever heal from the loss of our siblings. That's just the reality of it. These are the people that we're supposed to [00:49:00] go through life with us for the longest amount of time, but we're not broken.

Just think of those little holes, those little missing pieces, being patched up with little veins of gold and then that's it. Just keep living. That's all we can do, right? Yeah. That's beautiful. I was like, I'm, I don't know. And then when you meant, when you described it, I know exactly what you're talking about.

Yeah. It's like a very ancient like practice of theirs. Yeah. Yeah. It's also the way that they show that we aren't broken. That even if things break apart, you come back together and like the things that are quote unquote broken in us, they're filled with gold. That means they're so valuable. It's a beautiful thing.

And then it becomes this even more beautiful piece of art. I don't think we've ever talked about that on the show, so thank you for bringing that up, Kara. Yeah, and I think it's a really good way because I do feel like. And this is not just losing a sibling, this is losing anything in life. Any person or maybe going through a trauma in life.

We feel broken and [00:50:00] it's not the right way to look at it. But it's okay to look at it that way. But changing your perspective, just like you shared, is I think it's invaluable and it really helps you. Understand because those the things that happen like losing our sibling, especially in a traumatic way, like you and I have experienced, and many of you have experienced, when we build ourselves, you know, and we work together and we, like you said, you're never gonna be like perfect afterwards, but like, no one's perfect, so who cares?

But you're missing a part of you. Right? Right. You are. And so, you know, when you look at this piece of art that's filled in with gold, like I just love that. Thank you. For sure. Well, and then like, that's like what I think it's. Philly, Bob Thornton that said like, I live my life. I'm 50% happy and 50% sad at all times, and I don't wanna be any different because he deserves.

To have that. Yeah. Every time I use that audio on TikTok here, I do it every like six months or so. It's a hard hitter. They love it. Everybody loves it. Yeah, and I totally [00:51:00] understand why, and I've always been a big fan of Billy Bob. And I remember when it was so interesting because the first time I heard that audio, I was like, God, I've been saying some of these similar things and I never heard it.

Right. And that's why, I love that you brought that up too, because I don't think we've ever talked about it on the show, even though I use the audio like every couple months, you know, because people love it and it's good for them. And like whenever I see people start dropping in my comments like, have you heard Billy Bob?

I'm like, oh, starting to post the audio again because I'm like, okay, we got some new folks here. Right. But that's why it resonates so hard. It's not because I was so creative or even he was so creative. It's because he just is saying exactly what every single one of us is thinking. Totally, totally.

And it's not something that you would've expected to come out of him either. Like that's just not the personality that you put with him. Right. So, but it's just good to know, like, it's okay to not be okay. Like that's, it's okay. And in and in our sibling way. Right? He like adds that little kibosh on there for us.

So it's totally awesome. Yeah. Thank you for sharing Brandon with us. Thank you [00:52:00] for sharing you with us. Where are you comfortable people connecting with you? Email, social, what's best for you? Karen, we'll put it in the show notes. So I am on all the platforms. I'm probably least active on Instagram to be quite honest.

Okay. My TikTok, it's, at adulting is easy.

TikTok is at, adulting is easy. A OL, and on, Facebook, I'm just, my name Cara, KARA, hyphen, L-E-I-G-H, last name L-U-S-S-I-E-R. Okay, awesome. So we will link your socials in the notes if you guys wanna reach out to Kara.

And thank you so much for being here. 

Thank you so much for listening to the Surviving Siblings Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode as much as I did creating it for you, then share it on your chosen social media platform. And don't forget to tag us at Surviving Siblings Podcast so that more surviving siblings can find us. [00:53:00] Remember to rate, review and subscribe to the podcast.

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